 Poster: A snowHead
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easiski, too true!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Jonpim wrote: |
| I reckon the rot started when it was no longer "cool" to go out in multicoloured day-glo suits. |
 It isn't?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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DB, NO!
However, lime green pastel SOS pants will always reign supreme!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I don't give a monkey's if skiing is more or less dangerous than it used to be. There is an element of risk, so take it or leave it.
Quit the blame game.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It's also perfectly possible for skiers of similar standards to want to ski differently on the same slope. I've read, both hear and elsewhere, of skiers steaming down the hill and being in perfect control, know what they're doing etc, etc (not me guv' I didn't cause no accident). For my own part I'm pretty well ok on all grades of groomed run but don't necessarily want to get to the bottom in the shortest time and by the shortest route preferring to ski at my own pace, admire the scenery, stop now and again for a breather (at the side of the piste or in a clearly visible spot of course). Surely I have as much right to ski these pistes as all you speed freaks?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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IMHO, the most dangerous skiing I have seen has been in resorts most frequented by Brits (pause to duck) and to a lesser extent, Germans. Probably this is becuase these are the 'busiest' resorts in Europe. Never had a problem in Switzerland or Italy.
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Piste skiing has allways been dangerous. More serious accidents occur on-piste than off-piste.
The very nature of a smooth piste encourages speed & reckless skiing.
STOP THE BRUTAL GROOMING 
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It is also possible that there are people skiing on the same piste as you who have had no instruction from a qualified instructor or coach, which is total madness!
The reason I mentioned this is a couple of friends of mine went skiing in Lake Tahoe recently, one was a competent lower intermediate skier the other had never skied. They decided between them that it would be easier not to have lessons with a qualified instructor, and the the skier could teach the non skier the basics and that would be fine (very scary thought). Luckily they managed to ski the entire week without any accidents on blue and easy red runs. Although when they told me about this, I told them how stupid and potentially danerous it was.
I don't know of anyone else who have tried to teach a mate to ski, but I guess they are not the only ones on the slope especially in large popular resorts where looking good in the latest fashionable gear is more important than learning to ski properly.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I don't know the answer to the question but some thoughts
1. I think I tend to take up more piste when carving. On long skinny skis you really needed a completely empty piste to have a go at carving - long radii and high speed required. On skinny skis I would generally ski short-swings in the fall-line taking up very little horizontal space on the piste. These days I find i can generally carve most of my turns on piste unless it's really busy - I may use 80% or 90% of the available width.
2. Carving is about skiing "the slow line fast" - i.e., use gravity to slow you rather than controlled skidding. This means that your speed as you are perpendicular to the fall line in linked carves can be very fast - this gives the potential for a high impact collision. With more skidded turns, your max speed is slower but you take a more direct path
3. I tend to agree that proper linked carves (i.e. finished properly, likely somewhat uphill and smoothly linked to next turn) are still a minority pursuit! This means that less experienced skiers can be surprised at the angle/path a carving skier makes towards them. Even if they are the uphill skier they may just make a hash of avoiding the downhill carver.
All in all I'd say that carving does bring some additional hazards which you need to manage. Crowded pistes scare me more than steep chutes so I tend to avoid the piste when it gets busy.
J
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jedster, yep, I think you're right. I also think that hard icy pistes are where Mr average (cartainly Mr Average Milanese) skis fastest, and ironically is where he (she) has least control.
Less grooming. More bumps. Lots more bumps. That's the answer.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If you want to reduce the number of injuries by making skiing less enjoyable (e.g. by having less grooming), then how about switching off the chairlifts too? That would have the same effect: less injuries and less enjoyment.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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maybe grit some of the faster pites...? 
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| xyzpaul wrote: |
| If you want to reduce the number of injuries by making skiing less enjoyable (e.g. by having less grooming), then how about switching off the chairlifts too? That would have the same effect: less injuries and less enjoyment. |
don't agree that less grooming = less enjoyment if we're talking about 'danger areas'.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
It is also possible that there are people skiing on the same piste as you who have had no instruction from a qualified instructor or coach, which is total madness!
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davidb, I think you worry too much. If you learn by doing the mileage, and copying other better skiers, it is perfectly possible to become an expert skier without ANY lessons, it just will probably take longer. And a lack of formal lessons will not necessarily make you a more dangerous skier - probably every skier goes through a dangerous stage when they've had maybe 3-10 wks total skiing, and they can go quite fast, but not always with as much control as they should. Skiing safely is far more about attitude and concentration than skill anyway.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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First if you carve properly you are on a wider and therefore more stable stance. I also believed that carving did not neccissarily mean long turn and that you could carve shorter turns as and when required. If not then i'm not sure what I've been doing the last few years.
Als when you carve your upper body should be facing down the hill at all times so you should be aware of what is ahead of you, much in the same way you should be aware of what is several hundred yards down the street when you drive. If you turn your head it has much the same effect as turning your head to spot a landing when airborn. Also responsibility is for the uphill skier, i was always taught.
I don't agree that carving skis have contributed to accidents as the majority of people who have them, and this is practically everyone, don't use them properly and so ski as they have always done. Admitedly it is harder for me to comment as i can't remmember skiing 10 years ago, just being starting out myself then, but i reckon that there are and will always be a certain number of idiots on the slope and that is just a fact of life. Maybe a few less of them know basic piste ettiquette?
Anyway please correct anything that i've said that is wrong. It is only what I think and i'm always happy for constructive debate especially as oms epeople on here seem to be instructors.
PS Ading moguls to all runs would just knacker eveyone and result in more accidents
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think that parabolic skis may have made it easier for people to feel in control and progress faster - but it is probably more the attitude that goes with it that is to blame.
I am aware of plenty of people who went skiing for the first time in the past few years and were off to find the nearest black run ASAP so they could to come home and say that they had done a black. I suspect the difference is that carvers instill the sort of confidence quicker that will have somebody out to bag their first black (out of control) sooner than somebody would have on ye old straight skis.
I think this behaviour is encouraged by certain ski instructors - I have certainly seen a younger British ski instructor who brought his class down an easy black at the end of their first day. Half the class ended up walking / sliding down, others tried and fell continually, with a few who actually succeeded with some remarkably controlled snow ploughing. When asked, his response was that the majority of Brits he teaches for the first time are only there for one week and want to go down a black as soon as possible - so he obliges.
I think it is machoism that is mainly at fault and the marketing image created of skiing and 'adventure sports' and the type of behaviour that is 'hip'.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Normally on this site we get people slagging off most other skiiers for their inability to carve, yet now there is a miraculous abundance of carvers causing accidents. What gives?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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xyzpaul, I think its where 'Technical Ideal' meets 'Reality'. Personally, unless the slopes are pretty empty, I just don't feel safe enought to carve consistently (or at least my attempts at carving perfectly) due to the room it takes up. Generally, a run down a slope with other skiers consists of carving a few turns, noticing a snake of skiers ahead, traversing across to one side to avoid them lower down when passing, doing some short radius turns using up as little room as possible to get past them, a glance uphill, into a carve again, a slight schuss to get past somebody quickly before they turn back your way again ....... adjust again for next obstacle ahead or uphill skier that doesn't fill you with confidence at his ability to miss you etc. I think that is the reality of sharing a piste with others.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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xyzpaul, err, I find more grooming=less enjoyment myself. I like bumps. They make it easier to turn. They require skill.
If I wanted to practice a skill-less sport I try snowboarding, or snow blading (ducks!)
I'm all for switching opff the chairs too. Turns are much more satisfying when you've earned them...
agavin, I haven't seen many people whose skill level is not up to it skiing too fast on "blacks"...but I have seen many whose skill level is not up to skiing at the speeds they are skiing on blues (and taking out beginners, etc.) Was nearly taken out myself last week while learning to tele...and hence travelling slowly (although not unreasonably slowly...)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| xyzpaul wrote: |
| Normally on this site we get people slagging off most other skiiers for their inability to carve, yet now there is a miraculous abundance of carvers causing accidents. What gives? |
In my limited experience ....
In earlier years when there were less snowboarders and carvers around it was less likely that people would be travelling across the hill at high speeds. People tended to drop down in vertical lines (although learners could be zig zaggy and slow). Addíng snow tools that are easier ride faster and introducing tools that promote faster horizontal speeds has in my opinion increased the danger on crowded slopes; but it's also made it a lot more fun.
David Murdoch,
You can have that already, it's called "ski touring" 
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 11-01-06 13:46; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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David Murdoch, Yes, my point was more about skiing beyond ability level and the 'machoism' that exists around the sport driving people to do more than they should.
Regarding skiing at speed on blues and reds, (I too have had to take avoiding action from uphill skiers who were clearly out of control - in fact I always look uphill out the corner of my eye before turning), do you think the speed is always intentional, or is it just a product of not having the tools to ski the slope in a controlled fashion such that they gather too much speed? Also I think it may be a matter of experience as well - you think you are fine (and may be technically speaking given the current siutuation) until you are faced with a situation you haven't encountered before and don't have the experience to deal with?
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Is it not possible to carve short turns? Someone please answer this for me. I thought i was.
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Does the number of people skiing/boarding while listening to their MP3 player increase risks?? Reduces your awareness of what's going on around you in my opinion.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's possible to carve short turns but it's harder. Especially when you're an all mountain skis with wider waist and higher radius (or on fatties, in between offpiste bits!). If the piste gets icy, the angles you need to achieve are more likely to cause a fall. I guess my short turns are mostly scarved, or perhaps a combination of rotation to redirect the skis and then carving.
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xyzpaul,
| Quote: |
If you want to reduce the number of injuries by making skiing less enjoyable (e.g. by having less grooming), then how about switching off the chairlifts too? That would have the same effect: less injuries and less enjoyment
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Excellent idea!! I am all for hiking up & making one run down.
How do you know it is less enjoyable, have you ever tried skinning/shoeing up & skiing down what nature gave us & not some corduroy autobahn?
I suggest if they ever get round to licences for skiers this should be there first test, may deter a few of the idiots you see on the slopes nowadays
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Winter sports have become alot more accessible to the masses, with the advent of easyjet etc etc , in the last 5 yrs in which i have lived in the alp's in seems that the resorts and piste's are becoming more and more busy. It only used to be February which used to be a nightmare but now it appears to be relentless from late Jan through to mid April, and this increase in traffic will only mean more accidents. Also it create's a mad rush to track out the off-piste, with alot of people thinking that because their wearing a transceiver ( or not ) that their bullet proof , with back country enthusiasts ( myself included ) pushing the boundries to get that perfect line .Statistics show a big rise in young predominantly male skiers and boarders falling foul of off-piste accidents wether it be an avalanche , fall or striking a submerged obstacle . This saturation of the resorts and piste's is making people push that little further to obtain the thrill , most have just one week to get their fix and their hell bent on getting it , but at what cost is the big question they have to ask themselves, unfortunately adrenaline has a good way of making you forget that .
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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agavin,
do you think the speed is always intentional, or is it just a product of not having the tools to ski the slope in a controlled fashion such that they gather too much speed? Also I think it may be a matter of experience as well - you think you are fine (and may be technically speaking given the current siutuation) until you are faced with a situation you haven't encountered before and don't have the experience to deal with?
Not having the tools or the awareness. Definitely. Experience also helps but frankly, I would prefer not to be on the receiving edge of the "experience"... 
PS I try and look every time I make a big widey turn across the slope too!
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switchskier, trying to comment on your posts (and thank you for them). I may have to "carve" them up and postulate in order...I hope you don't mind.
"First if you carve properly you are on a wider and therefore more stable stance."
(Potentially. If you were stable in the first place
"I also believed that carving did not neccissarily mean long turn" (I agree) "and that you could carve shorter turns as and when required." (I would have thought so)
Also when you carve your upper body should be facing down the hill at all times (I believe modern technique suggests maybe not?) so you should be aware of what is ahead of you, much in the same way you should be aware of what is several hundred yards down the street when you drive.Oh my word if only everyone agreed with you!
Also responsibility is for the uphill skier, i was always taught.Completely!!!
I don't agree that carving skis have contributed to accidents as the majority of people who have them, and this is practically everyone, don't use them properly and so ski as they have always done.
True!!! But, my thesis is that "carvers" make it easy for people toi ski. And to ski out of control. Which is fine...until they hit someone/thing. My issue is that carvers have allowed an increase in speed and a decrease in control, particularly in dangerous conditions without engendering an increase in skill, awareness, sensibility or anything else safety related
Admitedly it is harder for me to comment as i can't remmember skiing 10 years ago, just being starting out myself then, but i reckon that there are and will always be a certain number of idiots on the slope and that is just a fact of life. True!!! I learned 34 years ago so have even less recollection of the process!
Maybe a few less of them know basic piste ettiquette? Possibly!!!
Anyway please correct anything that i've said that is wrong. It is only what I think and i'm always happy for constructive debate especially as oms epeople on here seem to be instructors.
PS Ading moguls to all runs would just knacker eveyone and result in more accidents (((NONSENSE!!! Learn to ski on real snow!)))
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Wed 11-01-06 23:06; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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You may have noticed I've just discovered HTML color, which makes up for Shs not working fully in Firefox!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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busyliving, How very true
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Poster: A snowHead
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Cedric, Not on skis designed to carve short turn. Actually, it's not that hard to turn short turns on any skis that are designed to turn. Unlike most fatties. Which begs the question as to why Snow and Rock are majoring in fat skis that aren't designed to turn in anything shallower than 6 inches of fresh
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
| Als when you carve your upper body should be facing down the hill at all times so you should be aware of what is ahead of you, much in the same way you should be aware of what is several hundred yards down the street when you drive. |
switchskier, I don't think so. You should be facing pretty well the way you're travelling when carving. As jedster said, you can travel a long way at high speed across the fall line while carving, and you'd better be looking where you're going - besides which you'd pretty soon end up on your @rs€ with your upper body facing downhill all the while. Short radius turns - with foot steering - different kettle of fish.
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FAQ
