 Poster: A snowHead
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Latest report on "progress" at Tignes, following the incident. Hannou spent the day training there - very windy, snow conditions ok, bit icy, queues rather long - only to be expected.
If anyone had got really bored with the crowded lifts, they could always have tried their hand at rope climbing. All they had to do was nip over to the cablecar, still stuck in the same place since last Friday. The rope used to lower passengers to the ground is still there! No work going on at all today, no sign of an engineer. After all, it is Sunday! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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PG, thanks for the welcome. I will have a look at about Thursday the week I am going, and make ma decision then. I will have web access throughout the trip, so I can check back.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've posted a few photos of last week's cablecar derailment in Tignes. Apologies for the quality of the photos as they are captured from a video taken some distance away.
If you fancy a laugh I've also posted a few photos of me in a GS class including a 'personal derailment' due to my inability to cope with a large hole in the racing line. Photos can be seen here:
http://homepage.mac.com/rob.rees/Tignes/PhotoAlbum27.html
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The Ski Club's report on this incident - click here - states that the Grande Motte cablecar will be out of action "at least until Christmas Eve".
The raises the charming prospect of Father Christmas popping down the chimney with a new cablecar. A rather large chimney. Can he confirm this, please?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Really? I've just spoken to one of the managers at the STGM. When I told him of the Ski Club report, the response was a lengthy (if rather annoyed) laugh. The official position is that repairs will last a matter of days, the precise quote being: "We expect the telepherique to be one of action between 7 and 10 days, no more". I asked once again whether he was sure of this and he repeated that "the repairs and checks are timetabled to be completed within the next 10 days."
Let's hope he wasn't being too optimistic.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Aha! I see the problem! The SCGB has looked at the archived PisteHors report
| Quote: |
| Posted by: davidof on 18 Dec, 02 | 6:07 pm |
... and confused it with the current incident!
Someone at the Ski Club needs to do some rapid editing! Or they'll be in big trouble with the Tignes resort, for putting people off from visiting the resort!
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I wondered what they were on about, "ice accumulating on cables, sudden thaw", etc... 24th December.... it's all in davidof's report here
Given that David Goldsmith quoted davidof's report earlier in this thread, and that the SCGB piece quotes my translation of a French article verbatim, it's pretty obvious where the Ski Club has come to get the most in-depth information!! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We're pretty careful to quote the sources of reports as well, at snowHeads. No mention whatsoever of PisteHors or snowHeads in the Ski Club piece. My translation of the Parisien article was used, but neither I nor the Parisien was credited. So much for respecting copyright over at the SCGB.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Just on the phone to the director of the Tignes Tourist Office, there I was about to suggest they call the Ski Club to suggest they rapidly amend their article before any damage is done, and hey presto, mid-phrase, the SCGB article refreshes on my screen, all mentions of Dec 24th have vanished! They must be keeping very close tabs on our News section!
However they still have an entirely inaccurate paragraph about damage to cables and cabins by falling ice, and no mention of snowHeads as providers of the info... or is that too much to hope?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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dolphingirl, thanks for the credits. You still mention falling ice, sudden thaw, damage to cable/cabins - none of which is true as this originated from the PisteHors 2002 article, about a previous incident.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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My heart was in my mouth reading this...I don't like these big cattle waggons at the best of times. Thanks for giving us such a good account. Snowheads is becoming pretty impressive...small acorns/big oak trees and all that!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Sorry dolphingirl, but that was very funny. Glad to see the news item is now credited though. I really think that should happen with each news item - I've often wondered where the items come from and assumed they're from 'official' resort press releases.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| PG wrote: |
]
Given that David Goldsmith quoted davidof's report earlier in this thread, and that the SCGB piece quotes my translation of a French article verbatim, it's pretty obvious where the Ski Club has come to get the most in-depth information!! :wink: |
hohoho, anyway before I get blamed for being the root of the SC's troubles if they had read the front page article of Pistehors they would have seen that I'd put a link over to the snowheads thread and that I said it would be out of action for "a few days!":-
http://www.pistehors.com/comments/357_0_1_0_C/
Their rep will get a frosty welcome in Tignes when he goes for his free lift pass, the STGM, as does the CdA, takes a very grim view of news sources that get it wrong.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Cathy Coins wrote: |
| I've often wondered where the items come from and assumed they're from 'official' resort press releases. |
You can be sure if Snowheads started reproducing their snow reports they would be furious.
If you look at the SC report they finally gave grudging credit to SnowHeads
Ski Club Article
But didn’t actually link back to the original report.
The arrogance is astounding but it also shows a complete lack of understanding of the medium. The idea, when you find an interesting page, is to link back to the content – like hello Web, hyperlinks, geddit? It is not to cut and paste the content to your own website.
Now by and large David Goldsmith and PG and other SnowHead’s posters do exactly this. They quote a small teaser, which is completely legal, then link to the original article.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 23-11-04 19:19; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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sherman-maeir, this is something that has been discussed recently in PMs, but the medium is so anarchic organisations just seem to get away with it, generally speaking. What is particularly frustrating is that although Google has indexed snowHeads in its general search engine, we do not appear in the Google News search results. It was assumed that this was because we are not a bona fide news agency, with few original reports. Except that I recently did a news search using the term Tignes, and Natives appeared top of the list, with a report on last week's incident taken verbatim from snowHeads! Frustrating - annoying.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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PG, have the SCGB and Natives been formally contacted about this? It may be that the person 'creating' the news items is ignorant of the correct protocol. As dolphingirl says above, I'm sure she did not mean to not credit snowHeads, just didn't realise she should. As she is also involved in Natives does she also do the news items there? (Sorry for talking about you in the third person dolphingirl!) I note there is now a link on the Natives news item back to snowHeads.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Cathy Coins wrote: |
| I'm sure she did not mean to not credit snowHeads, just didn't realise she should. |
It is not a question of crediting it is a question of copying. Under the Berne convention everything created privately and originally after April 1, 1989 is copyrighted and protected whether it has a copyright notice or not. Fair use covers a short excerpt and should be attributed.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 23-11-04 19:20; edited 2 times in total
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| PG wrote: |
| Except that I recently did a news search using the term Tignes, and Natives appeared top of the list, with a report on last week's incident taken verbatim from snowHeads! Frustrating - annoying. |
Because Native's gets visited more often by the Google spiders the snowheads content risks getting deleted or relegated from Google's search engine index by the duplicate page content detection software. Google doesn't like the forum format.
Some of the news on snowheads is that it is just a short except then a link to another article. I suspect Google thinks this isn't news but comment.
It should be remembered that there is no point in Google showing 10 copies of the same page in its results. Content theft is a problem, not just because it dilutes the value of SnowHeads but because it may also make the site harder to find when searching for information.
Anyway it is not MY problem, I was just pointing out the legals to Snowheads. I'd better start on my files for today as it is 9:42 and I want to go to the beach later. Keep up the good work. I'll hopefully get to ski this winter and maybe see some of you on the slopes.
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sherman-maeir, I could not see anything copied verbatim from snowHeads in the SCGB release, am I missing something?
Generally I think that the skiing world should be grateful for people like dolphingirl, who give up their time for the benefit of others. I note that she has apologised for any offence given. I also note that others also make mistakes, and not all of them apologise for their innacurate postings.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=48361#48361
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
sherman-maeir, I could not see anything copied verbatim from snowHeads in the SCGB release, am I missing something?
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Yes.
Even with the edits it would fall under the class of a derivative work.
Does Dolphingirl know how to hyperlink? Maybe before giving so much of her free time she should read a short book on copyright law and the web.
ben wright> The really ugly concrete block of flats in La Foux was dynamited in June. This brought immense joy to a lot of people.
Yes but I didn't really expect an apology from Ben, it was no big deal.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 17-11-04 11:01; edited 1 time in total
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sherman-maeir, dolphingirl has apologised and sorted out the problem. Ease up on her...she's only human 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Ray Zorro, and the piece originally included data copied verbatim from both PisteHors and snowHeads - or snowHeads via Natives. It has since been modified. I think sherman-maier's point is fair. Of course a volunteer's efforts should be appreciated but it is important to respect the rules as far as possible. Short of the occasional mishap, we try to do that here by providing a link to the original report and only quoting a small section, a taster.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| PG wrote: |
| Short of the occasional mishap, we try to do that here by providing a link to the original report and only quoting a small section, a taster. |
I'm only beating up on the Ski Club because of the way they closed the forums due to 'legal issues' - I think they should be congruent.
[Moderators' comment: Yes, and snowHeads operates in a spirit of free speech, but we also have to operate within the law. Do you have direct documented evidence of copying and pasting of news stories, without the copyright-holder's permission? If you can stand up the allegation, this forum can handle it, but you'll appreciate that we reserve the right to edit or delete if there's a potential legal problem.]
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You know it makes sense.
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"Snow News for France - last updated on 18 November 2004
The Grande Motte cable car is out of order in Tignes (0/45cm), and looks likely to remain so until Christmas."
Copied this off SCGB site just now from "Ski Club Snow Reports" section. So they've deleted the "until Christmas" bit in the main report but kept it in this
As I'm going in 2 and a bit weeks, PG, please tell me this is not true....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Maggi, why not contact the tourist office and get the up-to-the-minute information yourself?
Tignes Information
tél. +33 4 79 40 04 40
email = information@tignes.net
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Poster: A snowHead
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maggi, Interesting, given the TO's previous assurances. Will check later on this morning.
Ray Zorro, isn't that the whole point of having people on the spot with 'inside' information, so the we don't have to ring up tourist offices and be fed "the line"?
_________________________________
SupPORT GB!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The "Christmas" thing looks like an oversight. The STGM marketing director Denis Durand has just mailed me...
| Quote: |
| Tout est mis en oeuvre pour réouvrir le téléphérique de la Grande-Motte début décembre |
ie all the stops are being pulled out to ensure that the cablecar is back in action at the start of December.
The good news is that the double 'M', thanks to last night's 10 cms plus artificial snowmaking which has been going strong, is opening ....
SATURDAY !!
What's more, I can go skiing all next week for 23€50 instead of 32€50, so I'm not complaining!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks, PG, that's cheered me up no end. Not to mention that fact that it's finally snowed 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Having had my attention drawn to the Tignes cable car article I found a useful site called: http://www.copyscape.com/ which can show copies of part or all of a web page. Just out of interest I ran this through a selection of the news stories from PisteHors.com, for example:
http://www.pistehors.com/comments/163_0_1_0_C/
and indeed there are quite a few substantial duplicates on the Internet, including the Ski Club.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Maggi, out of interest, on Friday morning (at the same time as posting my last comment) I sent an email to the Tignes TO asking when the Grandes Mottes cable car would be fixed and today received this reply. Not the speediest response, but the message was forwarded a couple of times.
And thank you for your interest in the resort.
We do all what we can to open the cable car as soon as possible.
We would like to open it for the 27th November 2004.
To get more informations you can have a look on our web site : www.ski-tignes.com.
Wishing you a good receipt.
The Lift Information Office
Sandrine Quard
The email address of those that actually gave the information was stgm@compagniedesalpes.fr
Obviously, with his own contacts, PG may well find that this is not totally correct, but I thought I'd pass it on anyway. Hopefully you'll be alright for your trip next month.
Ray
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ray Zorro, Cheers for that - and the PM.
I look at that site everyday and all it tells me is that the lift is not in use due to a technical problem! No news about when they expect it to be repaired (or if there is, I can't find it!).
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Good news - I think - from Hannou who was up on the glacier today. They were doing tests, the cable cars going back and forth. I'll check up tomorrow to see if there's any idea when it will back in service.
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..and on a Sunday, I'm impressed
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ise,  I did ask her if she's sure she wasn't seeing things!
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Thanks, PG! Looking promising - now let's hope the snow forecast is right - woohoo 
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FAQ
will amend now, thank you! 
