 Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, I just let go, and wear a helmet if you don't that seems to allow me to go faster? Longer skis deffinately help-175's really dont do it for me over about 50 mph lol-especialyl twin tips..
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, Have you had a bad crash at speed yet? if so perhaps some armour may be in order, if not perhaps you need to push it and get a good smash under your belt. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, yes (1, 2, 3, and 4). Not a learning experience I'm keen to have again!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimottaret, the worst thing is that I slammed through the gate backwards and one of the poles caught me in the back of the neck just below my helmet. Hurt like hell.
You'll have to teach me the slow dog noodle on Saturday 
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I think comform in speed will simply come naturally, if slowly.
Bad crashes leave a memory block that takes time to get over. Also some people have slow reflects so perception of speed is worse for them.
The advice of letting go on a safe slope is a good one. Do it for a short distance and see how much control you still have even at higher speed. That helps a lot.
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rob@rar, I don't think you'll find that emotional control of the speed you are willing to travel at is just a limiting factor at your level. IMHO it's what haunts all of us nervous novices too. 
What on earth's KL? - it sounds terrifying
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| Megamum wrote: |
What on earth's KL? - it sounds terrifying |
Kilometre Lance - or the flying kilometre. This particular one in Les Arcs is one of several speed skiing courses where nutters bomb down a course in a straight line to achieve high speed records. They do sometimes go wrong  If you like you can pay a few euros to get all gear and some long skis and have a go yourself (although not from the very top of the course!)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, I am in no way as good a skier as you, but I have exactly the same struggle to get my head round going faster that you do. I've been told almost exactly the same thing. My technique is good enough to go much faster, but I just have to slow down when I get to a particular speed. It's exactly the same on a motorbike for me - I'm on the threshold of fast group on track days, but can't quite get my head round it to push into that group.
For me last year on the GS course, my technique outside gates was good, indeed, Gareth was showing his group my technique as an example at one point, and John was using me as his "assistant instructor" because I could demo the technique as well as anybody. But put gates in the way, and I turn into a blubbering wreck as I'm terrified of hitting them or getting upended by the ruts.
I don't know what happened in Austria last year, but I suddenly got a lot quicker, and that was without lessons. I just let the brakes off. It may have been helped by the new skis, in which I have much more confidence, but I was flying - Mr DS said he really had to try to keep up and you know how he skis. Maybe I just relaxed and stopped trying to go fast? I don't know. Even wiping out at high speed right under the lift, and spectacularly scattering all equipment over the mountain didn't put me off. I still can't ski gates though!
Of course I'll probably be rubbish in Tignes next week - Rupert Goldring is teaching us, so we'll see what he says about getting me a bit quicker. But I'll have to get quicker as Mr DS has GS skis now, and I'll be trying to keep up on my litte slalom planks.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| rob@rar, I don't think you'll find that emotional control of the speed you are willing to travel at is just a limiting factor at your level. IMHO it's what haunts all of us nervous novices too. |
I agree which is why I said earlier on
| rob@rar wrote: |
| I agree with TallTone that speed is relative, but I think this is a general principle that applies to most skiers, at all levels. |
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| docsquid wrote: |
| Rupert Goldring is teaching us, so we'll see what he says about getting me a bit quicker. But I'll have to get quicker as Mr DS has GS skis now, and I'll be trying to keep up on my litte slalom planks. |
I'm sure you'll have fun with Ru - saw him briefly last week and he was in good spirits as usual.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| docsquid wrote: |
| . My technique is good enough to go much faster, but I just have to slow down when I get to a particular speed. It's exactly the same on a motorbike for me - I'm on the threshold of fast group on track days, but can't quite get my head round it to push into that group. |
Do you slow down deliberately, or is it a subconscious thing?
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rob@rar, yes, I slow deliberately - I put on the anchors, so to some extent it is a conscious decision, but it must be actually a subconscious block, because I cannot override it and keep going - I have to back off.
The only good thing is that the point at which I have to back off is gradually increasing. By the time I'm about 150 years old, I'll be fast!
Glad Ru is in good form 
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You know it makes sense.
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docsquid, for me it's entirely subconscious. I'm not aware of trying to slow down, but I steer my skis a bit more or hang on to the edges for longer than I should. It's easy to see me do it when you look at video reviews. It's quite strange and not something that I've thought about before this season; it's only because a couple of instructors have pushed me hard that it has become apparent.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Speed is a funny thing - up to a point we're OK with it, beyond a point we just know its too fast. I ride pillion on DH's motorcycle - in the position I sit I cannot see the speedo. Yet if we are on a dual carriageway he reckons that I always clamp down and become rigid behind him at more or less the exact same speed each time - don't ask me how I know what speed is being done, but somehow my body can tell and knows when its too much.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kramer, thanks for those comments, and any more remarks by PM would be very welcome. I do consider myself a quick skier and I've never thought of myself as having a fear of going fast, quite the opposite in fact. I've always thought that technique is my limiting factor, not fear of speed. I can't remember a time when I've deliberately slowed down simply because I'm afraid of the speed I'm travelling at. Which is why I've been perplexed by observations from two trainers this season that I back off the speed. It might be that both those trainers (one an ex-Olympic skier, the other a top instructor with a race background) wanted to push me to a level a big step beyond where I am know and I'm just going to have to deal with with it? Or I might have a subconscious issue which does hold me back when I reach unknown territory as far as speed is concerned? I guess I should spend some time this season exploring the issue. I've raised it here because, as has already been said, speed is relative and most of us have to extend our capacity for it as we progress with our skiing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, do more tele and speed is irrelevent
on thread though, I think a lot has to do with pure aggression.. Emma said a similar thing to me which hit home the last day. At one point in some difficult steep terrain we were not given any specific instructions as to how to ski the line but she just wanted to watch us. After the run which i was pleased with she told me i ski like i am "demoing" and ski racing isnt a demonstration sport...... In my attempt to be controlled, smooth and "technically" good I had forgotten that we were race training even though we were in 2 foot cruddy bumps. A few hours later on the last run of the week she wanted to have a look at everyone again. I was tired but decided to let it rip and had the best set of turns of the week. She asked me what I did differently and i said that at the top I had told myself that although I am a fat out of shape old f**ker dont be a p**sy in front of a couple of birds and kill this run or be killed..... she smiled sweetly and said well done with a twinkle in her eye....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skimottaret,  you tart.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, I think this is a bit like driving. I know I could drive a lot faster but choose not to for safety of others and the chance of the unexpected popping up. Skiing is the same. We share pistes with others and the unexpected does pop up from time to time.
Everyone has their own margin of safety, it's just that for some people its smaller than for others 
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rob@rar, Ah, your last post explained it all. They were just pushing you outside of your comfort zone, for 2 reasons, firstly to see if you'd go to pieces and secondly, the biggest changes in your skiing can be made when you're at your perceived limits.
Expect a lot more of that on your L2.
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| Quote: |
Expect a lot more of that on your L2
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you think? there is a lot of breaking down of bad habits and rebuilding on L2 but little high speed skiing or out of comfort zone things
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| Kramer wrote: |
| ......He is an extremely fast skier already. He can ski most people off the mountain. ..... |
I agree with you. I've skied with rob@rar too - he is a very quick skier indeed (no, I am not saying I can keep up with him) and I was really surprised that it was he who started this thread - which makes it all the more interesting.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Thu 13-12-07 10:21; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| Quote: |
Expect a lot more of that on your L2
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you think? there is a lot of breaking down of bad habits and rebuilding on L2 but little high speed skiing or out of comfort zone things |
I did loads of high speed stuff, spent days on the Stade. Serious off-piste miles from anywhere, through trees, drop-offs, top to bottom runs, the lot.
I suppose different trainers have different approaches to achieve the same goal.
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rob@rar, I think I'm in the same position as you, for some reason I do tend to ease off a little when the speed increases. Don't really know why, because I can ski quick if pushed or following someone. It may just be a mental block, over the thought of hitting the ground at that speed, (but all my previous injuries have been casued by slow speed crashes)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| brian wrote: |
| rob@rar, I got faster skiing with faster, better, older kids when I was younger. Maybe you need to find someone faster to ski around with ? |
Follow brian around for a bit and it shows 
I'm not sure I get the obsession with speed in free skiing - sure I'll blow past people on a flattish run out going 2 or 3 times their speed but as I'm not racing I'd rather get good turns in than the fastest run down. I think this is another way of saying I'm also a coward.
There are times when speed definitely helps - getting your skis to plane in powder for instance or those annoying kids who can straightline mogul fields simply by zipping across the crest of the bumps but its not the be all and end all of skiing in my book.
Edit for being an back bottom and missing the point of the thread - of course in general the best skiers are those who did lots of racing as kids and what does their training largely consist of - blasting around everywhere on the mountain on GS skis.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Since speed is relative much like driving on the motorway at 70 and then going to the B roads doing 40 feels way too slow. Yet 40 is actually fast. I think you've got to do what others have suggested and go way out of your "comfort zone". In my experience it was doing things (not just skiing by the way) where I thought, "there's no way I can do this", and getting through it. I then use this experience to visualise myself (achieving) which helps me with the task in hand.
If you can physically handle the speed (through technique) then it is a mental thing which you can overcome by progressive visualisation of success(es).
Think of it like public speaking you build up to bigger audience, remembering that what you achieved last time and how this is not such a massive difference, just one more person out there.
I also have some big mental games such that when I do something I figure, comparatively, that it can't be as hard as XXX. I know that's abstract but confidence to do something is a mental abstraction (for me) if I know there's no physical danger to me or anyone else.
It probably doesn't help, but actually I got something out of trying to articulate this (badly).
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skimottaret, Emma said similar things to me, and I responded in a similar fashion to you I think Still couldn't keep up with Helli or Alex though!
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You know it makes sense.
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I can't imagine what its like going very fast on skis. I guess the fastest I've been is in the region of 45 mph. I found it a frightening experience, having massive vibration through the skis, the vibration imparing my vision. Does this problem disappear with higher speeds? I know a guy with a similar skiing ability to me, who has been recorded at 85mph on a downhill course. I don't think I ever want to find out what that is like.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rob@rar, .... are you relating this Thread to skiing generally or race skiing ... ?
My memories of our excursion to the Flying Squirrel s layer last season were that you didn't exactly allow much 'grass to grow under your skis ' ... just how blo*dy fast are we talking about ..... ?
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, if you're in Les Arcs just go to the top of Grizzly, tuck and head down any piste into Vallandry, you'll be going plenty fast enough by the time you reach the bottom.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| BernardC wrote: |
rob@rar, .... are you relating this Thread to skiing generally or race skiing ... ?
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Both I suppose; just skiing generally. A couple of trainers have pointed it out to me this season, and have shown me on video that in both short and long radius turns I will sometimes steer the skis to get them quickly past the fall line rather then let them carve on their edges. I had no idea I was doing this, and it only happens like this when I'm skiing fast so the conclusion was that it was the speed that was the problem rather than a lack of technique. I'd like to be able to control that part of my brain a little bit better than I do now
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| levart wrote: |
| rob@rar, if you're in Les Arcs just go to the top of Grizzly, tuck and head down any piste into Vallandry, you'll be going plenty fast enough by the time you reach the bottom. |
That would be nice, but I think I'd want them to close the piste for me The Stade above Peisey is a particularly enjoyable piste for that kind of thing.
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I've slowed down a lot over the years - having had several broken bones (from cycle accidents) I'm very very concious of how much it will hurt if I lose it.
Mind you I'm having to speed up again as my twin boys (aged nearly 7) are getting bloomin quick
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This is interesting. I am 59 and have been wondering if I am more cautious in relation to my ability now. My technique is better than, say, 10 years ago and I ski faster off piste (where I do most of my skiing) but relative to my ability I'm not sure. On piste I ski about the same speed I did years ago, and probably slower when the slopes are crowded or the light is flat (actually I think I slow down more in bad light generally). But I'm not really sure - I think I need an objective measure. At La Daille, as you look up the Downhill racetrack there is another slope to its right which is used for other races sometimes. 20 years ago I used to enjoy waiting till it was clear and then straight-lining it in a tuck. One day I did it a few times and a couple of people copied me and they got out a piste-basher and built a ramp accross the bottom to stop people doing it. I could go and see if 'm still happy doing that - or is going straight a special case and not quite directly related to speed otherwise. And anyway, since I ski better now I should surely ski even faster, and on some slopes I do, particularly on the steeps.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 13-12-07 17:37; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| snowball wrote: |
| At La Daille, as you look up the Downhill racetrack there is another slope to its right which is used for other races sometimes. 20 years ago I used to enjoy waiting till it was clear and then straight-lining it in a tuck. |
I think it's the bottom of the Triffolet piste. I was GS'ing javelin turns down it last Friday. Great pitch with a long run out, ideal for a speedy finish to the day's skiing
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| I'd like to be able to control that part of my brain a little bit better than I do now |
When you learn the secret, please let me know it!
Mr Docsquid says you are a very fast skier - I don't know - I couldn't keep up with either of you last year, although I'm getting closer to Mr DS's speed now!
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| johnnyh wrote: |
Since speed is relative much like driving on the motorway at 70 and then going to the B roads doing 40 feels way too slow. Yet 40 is actually fast. I think you've got to do what others have suggested and go way out of your "comfort zone". In my experience it was doing things (not just skiing by the way) where I thought, "there's no way I can do this", and getting through it. I then use this experience to visualise myself (achieving) which helps me with the task in hand.
If you can physically handle the speed (through technique) then it is a mental thing which you can overcome by progressive visualisation of success(es).
Think of it like public speaking you build up to bigger audience, remembering that what you achieved last time and how this is not such a massive difference, just one more person out there.
I also have some big mental games such that when I do something I figure, comparatively, that it can't be as hard as XXX. I know that's abstract but confidence to do something is a mental abstraction (for me) if I know there's no physical danger to me or anyone else.
It probably doesn't help, but actually I got something out of trying to articulate this (badly). |
Just re-read this and I think there's a lot in there to help. I like the notion of visualising what you are trying the achieve. Perhaps taking a moment at the start of a run to imagine how you want to ski it. It might help get your head in the right place and keep it there, even when you leave your comfort zone.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, I'm surprised your coahces haven't had you visualising (or forward pacing) your training runs? Although, I suppose it might be mental overload when you are already working on technique.
One question, that I hope doesn't sound stupid - how do you know when you're going too fast? I.e. are you at all consciously holding back? I would imagine not or else you wouldn't need thread but still...
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David Murdoch, that would probably be too much info to deal with!
I'm not conscious of holding back at all - in fact it came as quite a surprise when it was pointed out that I was holding back. I thought my lack of pace (compared to some very good skiers in my group) was to do with a lack of technique rather than an unwillingness to go quickly. In fact it was a lack of technique and holding back a bit when I was going quick.
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FAQ
), which was unfortunately true. 
