Realli-ski simulators - anyone tried this? UPDATE - with video!!

A snowHead

ski, The surface is Snowflex, plus Silicone Spray as required. There isn't any problem that I've noticed with regard to excessive heat. I've skied it hard for 30 minutes. the skis are warm, but not excessively, no hotter than a run on Dendix.
I don't know what the Hillingdon surface was, so can't comment, however I did try a similar machine about 20 years ago and that was more like conveyor belt material and was a nightmare to ski on.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Hi All.

As you can see from my username, i represent Realli-Ski; infact i am co-designer of the simulator and MD of the company. We've been doing this 10 years now, and slowly growing with aspirations to open new centres in the coming years.

It is not my intention to take over this thread or attempt to justify any negative feedback - i appreciate this is a user to user forum and people are entitled to their opinions. The forum looks very good and i am looking forward to joining in on a personal level.

It's great to see independent positive feedback here, infact i was alerted to this forum by a new customer who called.

I will also certainly take on board the constructive feedback given here (EG: directions on website), so any more is most welcome.

In advance of spyderman asking, we will happily offer a 10% discount on single lessons to anyone quoting "snowheads" when they book. As it currently stands we don't offer additional discounts on already discounted courses of multiple lessons. (End of advert Very Happy

)

I'd like to invite any questions, and as i already said i promise not to reply to all comments stating how wonderful Realli-Ski is.

In closing, some members may be interested to hear that i, personally, was not a skier before i got involved in this business. I learnt to ski solely on our (early prototype) simulators and have never had a lesson on snow. I skied from the moment i got off the chair lift in Solden many years ago, fell over a few times and have never looked back.

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realli-ski, welcome to snowHeads Smile

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

blytht, good to hear from you and that you recommend the experience. You've hit the nail on the head as far as I was thinking - the bar to hold onto means being able to try something you would not try on a real slope for fear of falling. For me that's right back at the stage of having enough confidence to try to parallel turn and not snowplough!

Did you think though that the feel was realistic enough that if you were on a real slope tomorrow you could do the same thing there?

Oh and have you negotiated that SH discount yet?? Think I'd qualify cos I started this thread!!

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Newskier

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Spyderman, realli-ski, great news! Looks like my post got held up somewhere, beacause I sent it before Realli-ski's appeared! Now to work on getting down there!! Am hopeful of 2nd ~Nov.

After all it is free

realli-ski, welcome to snowHead

s. Looking forward to giving it another go next week Very Happy

holidayloverxx, When are you going?

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realli-ski, one thing that puzzles me is the 75mm 3-pin XC skis on the webpage?

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Spyderman, wednesday next week, 7.00 pm - clare texted last night

snow reports

holidayloverxx, with new Boots or not?

Spyderman, I'll bring them, but suspect I'll end up in the rentals. I've been wearing them around the house again today but I feel a return visit to lockwoods coming on.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

My son (then aged 6) and I learned at Realli-Ski in Canterbury two years ago, and found it excellent. We started as complete beginners, although both confident roller-bladers.

Based on our experience, I would thoroughly recommend Realli-Ski for total beginners, especially children and the nervous. The big benefits are:

- The instructor can give feedback throughout the session rather than just at the end of each 'run' as on a real slope, so it is possible to learn technique quickly.
- There are no falls to put off the nervous
- There is no hanging around in the cold, which is great for small children
- Skills gained on the simulator converted well to dry slope and then snow, allowing a very quick learning curve on the white stuff

One issue to consider is that at the end of a course of 7 - 10 lessons from beginner level you will have good 'muscle memory' of the required techniques, but will nevertheless still be a total novice on snow. This means you will need to be in total beginner classes on your first day on snow, but will tend to learn much faster than 'true' beginners who don't have the simulator experience. For this reason, I chose to have individual rather than group lessons for my first week on snow, which allowed progression from total novice to reasonable intermediate level in 4 sessions. By the second year, I figured I had had most of the benefit of my 'accelerated learning' and went for upper-intermediate level group lessons, which were fine.

For an experienced skier, I think Reali-Ski is good for pre-season warm-ups, and ski fitness. That said, it is a pretty expensive way to get fit, and I think I can get the same benefits with plenty of weighted squats and lunges for leg strength, and roller-blading for edging, balance, mobility etc. That explains why my wife is currently having beginner lessons at Realli-Ski, but I stopped joining her when the summer 50% off promotion expired.

A snowHead

A snowHead

realli-ski, Welcome to Snowheads.

One thing I would like to add, which makes the realli ski system invaluable is the way the instructor can actually touch (point very close!!) to your skis/boots while you are moving, this allows you to experience the feeling through your skis/boots, then to be able to instruct from the side also gives great benefit to see where your position/posture is. Also to show you the expected movements while standing in front of you and you are still moving!!!

The biggest issue it would appear is can this be transfered to the slopes. I would say that from position etc. "Muscle Memory" has been proved in many sports. Fear/speed would be the biggest factor as you cross the fall line that sensation of gaining speed.

The best of boths worlds would seem to be the answer in a snow-less country.
A RealliSki Simulator within a dry ski slope environment, therefore technique etc can be taught on the simulator followed by
a re-enforcement of technique on a dry ski slope or I suppose a snow dome session.
This would answer the questions posed above about can it be translated to actual downhill sliding snowHead

I'm going to Brentwood on Wednesday, so it will be interesting to see if I have the confidence to try the things I was doing on the
simulator. I'll let you know Laughing

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Hugh Jarse, I can list several ways that's true for running treadmills

- lack of air motion and relative wind
- the leg is lifted behind runner through hamstring activation instead of inertia
- lateral motion is discouraged because it is not coincident with belt travel direction
- speed bursts restricted
- soft impact surface alters heel strike and stability expectations

As to skiing simulators, ?????

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Huh! Just spotted this thread - and noticed that the company is based ar Radlett - which made me think not of skiing, but Handley Page.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

achilles, Makes 'Bombing' down the M1 to Radlett more relevant. Toofy Grin

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Spyderman, yup.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

comprex, youre quite right. Another good example is those truck-mounted flight simulators which work by deceiving the riders senses.

Anyone who has been on a plane will know that take-off acceleration pushes you hard back in your seat. The simulator tries to achieve that sensation by tilting backwards. It doesnt really accelerate anywhere so must rely on getting gravity to act in a different direction, but this is quite limited because tilting in several different axes is easily sensed by the human as pitch, roll and yaw rather than acceleration.

Real turns invoke centripetal and centrifugal forces which cannot be generated by static simulators and are almost impossible to fake.

Despite all this, I'm sure that Realli-ski is a fantastic training system, it clearly has some excellent benefits for both the student and instructor, and I would really, sorry realli Very Happy

, like to try it before my holiday in December.

After all it is free

Hugh Jarse, are you looking into the "turn all the way around the clock face" threads cleverly posing as "some thoughts from....."?

Designing a ski simulator to allow that level of divergence from the fall line has me puzzled entirely.

No I wasnt meaning that really, I had never considered such manoevers on a skiing simulator, but you are absolutely right. I think the realistic maximum turn angle that could be achieved on realli-ski would be 45 deg but even then only for a brief moment because the width of the moving surface is limited. An extra wide surface would allow the angle to be maintained for longer but then the skier must turn down the fall line again as the edge of the simulator approaches.

Clearly the simulator must operate within design parameters which limit its usefulness, but I think the ability of the instuctor to be able to examine the skiers movements closely from almost any position is incredibly useful, particularly for beginners or for more advanced skiers who wish to resolve a problem, but it cannot cover limitless scenarios.

Any tool has its limits, a saw is great for cutting wood but you wouldnt try hitting nails with it. A tool such as realli-ski is excellent for specific exercises but should be used in conjunction with a dry slope or snow slopes for maximum benefit.

Its quite a few years since I was on skis and I am quite confident but also sensible enough to realise that my skills will certainly have faded and that I should treat myself as a beginner until I can demonstrate otherwise. Such a simulator wasnt available when I learnt to ski and I think I would be wise to explore its benefits before taking to the Autrian slopes at xmas, I'm sure you'll agree.

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Hugh Jarse, oh, I'll agree, and I'll even admit to a shade of envy.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

comprex, yes sorry to hear about your injuries, must be a real bummer Sad

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Well....that wasw MUCH better. big thanks to Spyderman for great instruction, and realli-ski (the company), for giving me another chance to have a go. Very Happy

so the upside now:

1. I know how to get there!

2. I managed to get a few fluid turns in, and even the occasional carved turn.

3. It's good to be able to stop, reflect, correct and practise with the instructor watching every move

4. Spyderman showed me how to put my boots on properly and they were much better Very Happy

booked for MK tomorrow night to try and get the boots bedded in properly and to try out new skis Very Happy

holidayloverxx, Good to hear you enjoyed it this time. I have just come back from Brentwood Ski Slope with TallTone, and his shiney
new boots. Twisted Evil

He was having a bit of trouble with them but he seemed to sort it out with a few adjustments to how tight each clip was, then he seemed ok.
It was good to put the realli-ski instruction into practice. You should have a great time at MK.

Looking forward to meeting you at the PSB.

You know it makes sense.

holidayloverxx, Glad you enjoyed it. Very Happy

Will be interesting to see how things transfer to your snow session tonight. We shall await tomorrows report.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Well, I have now booked for 3pm next Friday afternoon (Nov 2nd) - will let you know how it goes - don't suppose you happen to be about, Spyderman?

A snowHead

NewSkier, No, sorry, I only do Wednesday eves.

A snowHead

Spyderman, Crying or Very sad

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Went to Realli-ski last night - loved it. Extremely tiring tho but certainly a great refresher. Just excited about gettin on the real stuff now Very Happy

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NewSkier, From your signature, you should really enjoy it. My wife who could be described by your sig has had two realli-ski sessions
The first gave her confidence, but her body ached due to holding back like lots of nervous skiers do. The second lesson she had on Wednesday she really enjoyed and commented today that she is not aching, which hopefully is a sign of confidence and ability.

Like most husbands, I said lets go to a dry ski slope then, but she is not quite ready for that leap of faith. Sad

Let us know how you get on.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

blytht, katiebeagle, thanks.

I am hoping that at Realli-Ski I will be able to try things I have not got enough confidence to try at the indoor slopes (Tamworth/Cas). I am assuming holding the bar will take away my fear of falling. My theory is that my body needs to discover what it feels like to turn OTHER than in a snowplough but I lack the confidence to try it as I am sure I'd fall like I did the one time I experimentally tried to do a skidded sideways stop - yep - straight out the side door!

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I tried this out one evening last week and really enjoyed it. Its quite tiring but a marvellous experience. Laughing

Its quite surprising initially how slow the surface moves, it seemed to be going faster than it actually was until the intructor climbed aboard and began walking alongside. As a result, all turning movements are also quite slow which is just right for beginners. Things get proportionately faster as speed and slope are increased.

My 17 year old son has never skied before and was confidently producing both snowplough and carving turns by the end of the half hour session. Fantastic Laughing

I thoroughly recommend it and plan to go for more soon Cool

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Right then - I've been! Had half an hour with Gary teaching/encouraging me & it was really good. (Thanks Gary).

It took me only a few minutes to find my balance and then we were off. I wasn't allowed a green run, had to start with blue! He asked me to show him how I turn and then helped me to improve the flow and move a little way towards a more parallel style from the snowplough. What I found interesting, was that holding onto the bar encourages the right kind of body motion, and keeps your shoulders from rotating too much. Also looking at your ski tips makes you dizzy (and that is a major fault I have so it was breaking me of that!). At the end of the lesson I was skiing on a red slope setting which was quite a surprise to me.

My dear hubby took a short video clip of me about half way through the lesson. I'd quite like to see a clip of an expert doing the same kind of thing, so I could study and compare what I am doing right/wrong. Maybe that is something Realli-ski could very easily produce - short clips of the instructors doing various exercisese - they could put them on their website.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3929050616221256457&hl=en-GB

After all it is free

Disclaimer: I've never used one of these.

I like the angulation you were using on your right turns. The inside lean was gone. Either the bar was helping you find the position automatically, or you were consciously focusing on it. The bar does keep the upper body and shoulders directed down the falline. I'm sure that too helped eliminate the * turn body across the hill and lean * tendency. The bar simulates the drill where you hold the ski poles horizontal in front of the body and keep them always facing down the falline.

One thing I don't like about the simulator:::: The bar seems to act as a lever that the skier can pull against to help twist the skis into a new turn. The up motion the instructor seems to be encouraging would contribute to the success of that tactic. This lever is not something available to skiers on snow, and because of this I could imagine some transference problems going from machine to snow. Without having been on one of these myself, my immediate thought is the skier should be directed to only use the bar as an available recovery device,,, a security blanket if you will,,, and that care should be taken not to lean on it, hold onto it tightly, or in any means use it as a lever to turn. Turning should happen entirely via the legs, with hands resting only lightly over the top of the bar, and eventually working toward separating hand/bar contact as much as possible. My suspicion is the instructor may offer suggestions that produce a gratifying outcomes on his machine, but don't necessarily transfer well onto snow.

I have some ideas I would try for promoting parallel, but I'm a bit hesitant to share them, as I don't have the experience on one of those machines to know how well they would really work.

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NewSkier, Well done. I have just come back from the PSB, had two lessons with Easiski. I can say IMHO, that realli-ski help me make the transistion from a skid type
turn to a true edge turn, realli-ski help me understand what was required, and Easiski taught me to understand/experience the forces involved when on the real stuff.

To go from happy skiing most things on the mountain, to now having a controlled approach and no-fear of the speed through the fall-line. What a buzz........... snowHead

I had a great time, and I will say the beauty of the PSB are the condition we skied perfect piste to bare spots of ice to slush, but having the confidence to hold the position and deal with the sudden change in conditions was part of two elements, realli-ski gave me the technique, the pressure points, stance, etc. Easiski was then able to see where I lacked in getting the ski onto the edges, and work in improving that with an exercise to emphasise the appropiate feelings, but it was not from a point of no-idea what she was saying, but from I understand what she means because I have been applying those pressure points within the foot, etc. on the realli-ski simulator.

I big thank you to Clare @ Realli-Ski and Easiski @ LDA.

Help!!

Realli-ski simulators - anyone tried this? UPDATE - with video!!

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