 Poster: A snowHead
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GrahamN,
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I was wondering how long it would be before that Lewis Carroll quote came out
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Indeed, as it often seems so apt on BZK. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Interestingly, as language evolves, the words start to take on different meanings in different sports. In pro tennis, for example, "trainer" now seems to mean someone filling more the role of "physio".
Often, all you need to do to appear like an innovative, creative thinker in a given sport, is to borrow some jargon from another sport 
(For example, this was done in the late 90s by marketing executives in the ski industry, when they borrowed the word "freeriding" from snowboarding.)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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What is the point of being an intructor, teacher. or coach if you don't care if your client/student improves?
Sometimes clients/students don't improve. But the fact they keep coming to us indicates they truly wish to improve. As responsible professionals and amateurs alike, should we not care and make every effort to assist our clients/students to achieve their desired outcomes?
Then again, that could be the moral difference between coach and instructor - despite professional and technical titling. Coach's care!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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easyski For sure, it's hard to see how I could do a good job for my clients if I didn't care about how they get on.
| Snowshark wrote: |
| Coach's care! |
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Snowshark, I don't understand it, but a lot of the older continental instructors just did it because there wasn't anything else they could do. Rather like going down the pit in South Wales a while back - generation thing. The newer guys (at least in LDA), do seem to be making more of a career choice, but the system doesn't reward them for being full time professionals, and they don't get to do enough 'teaching'! The ESF guys regularly gripe to me about large classes of disinterested pupils, rotten uniforms, lack of work in low season while someone who also owns a hotel or whatever is getting the work ..... I think all this has a bearing on the original question.
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easiski, I see your point. I too see disenchantment, poor morale amongst some of members of ski schools over here. Poor pay, people being booked on the wrong level of lesson, junior instructors being placed on lesson levels that someone like yourself would be comfortable teaching/coaching. HR and management simply saying get on with it when the issue is raised doesn't exactly help. Then, should we really expect the business managers to understand that if a clients ski school experience isn't right we won't see them again.
Perhaps some ski school managers need coaxing out onto the snow for some coaching themselves... shown a good lesson/coaching session..,. then an example of client mismatch, rotten ski wear and disinterest.
Poor personnel management slopeside is bound to have a knock on effect.
I can appreciate the ESF guys and their embarrassment at having to wear rotten uniforms. but surely low season is also the time for them to train. I know that won't put bread on their tables so I expect they look for other employ.
Poor morale has been leading to an exodus this year from the school I'm associated with. Some wishing to further their career in snowsports, some simply ditching the idea of snowsports as a career option.
Fortunately for the ski school, there are a few keen L1 Newbies waiting in the wings and shadowing lessons. But if the morale of the guy/gal they shadow is low... it's not good. Disinerested instructor can lead to disinterested class - a vicious spiral away from caring about our clients progress. Here today and gone... never to return.
When we have a relatively bad day when all the clients from hell descend; disinterested partners; naughty boys schools; and persistent whingers; as long as they make progress and leave with smiles on their faces, a bad day slopeside is a better day than one spent in the office. And there is always tomorrow....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Snowshark, easiski, I sometimes wonder if the business model for snowsport is at fault. It seems to me that a lot of ski schools rely on the life style aspirations of instructors to compensate for low pay.
I've no idea what a BASI Grade 1 can earn in a ski school, but considering the amount of commitment and outlay that is required to attain the qualification (it must now easily be the equivalent of doing a degree?) it's hard to see it being a good return on investment compared to other career choices ?
But to quote Snowshark "a bad day slopeside is a better day than one spent in the office"
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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laundryman, What's the rest of the book like ? I've just started to get into economics 'Lite' with "Freakonomics" and "Why most things fail"
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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david@mediacopy, it's very readable, on the whole - and while the world is more complicated now, the fundamentals still apply. You may wish to skip the chapters on the fluctuations of silver and gold prices!
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david@mediacopy, I agree with your comments about schools relying on lifestyles compensating for low pay. They also cite the free use of facilities when off duty. Some of us take advantage and train - occasionally coaching each other. Some don't bother. It's just a job to them and they're seldom seen slopeside except when working.
Of the meagre training we have, it's the same faces each time. Although good for continuity - and stopping the coach being overwhelmed - it's not good for the skills development of staff who don't get involved and get left behind.
I don't know about anyone else, but I reckon coaching and long term development of instructors etc, is as important as instructing/coaching clients.
Ski schools should take note that the skill of an instructor/coach, is like a product, and needs to be kept upto date. Some of us, if we don't use it, we lose it. That's where regular coaching comes in, be it for performance or basic drills.
I know some guys who are great at slope style, skiing switch etc. It's what they do on their time off. But when it comes to a basic plough Demo... we've all seen better. The sad thing is, I believe a lack of coaching one to one or as a team within ski schools as a whole is endemic. Granted, some ski schools keep up to speed - but not all.
As for the old Grade 1 being like a degree, I'll let you know if I ever attain that dizzy height
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You know it makes sense.
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| Snowshark wrote: |
| I too see disenchantment, poor morale amongst some of members of ski schools over here. |
In West Yorkshire?? Castleford snowdome and Halifax dry slope, presumably?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Snowshark, When I say low season I mean Jan or April - not interseason when the resorts are closed. There are no other jobs in ski resorts - or whatever there are are already taken. It's a huge problem for the ESF. They work on first in, most work basis. Thus all the old twits get to work all winter, and the young guns have a struggle to feed their families - hourly paid and only when you work after all. I agree with them - if someone has another source of income, they should let the full time pros work when there isn't much. It's not helping to encourage the right sort of people into the profession. Training - well, if you'd just finished 10 years of official training and got your National, you wouldn't want to do any more for a bit would you??? That's fine for the non-qualifieds and usually part of the deal. It's the young ISTDs who ar missing out!
Martin Bell, I thought Halifax had closed now - didn't you start there when you were a tiddler?
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Poster: A snowHead
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easiski, You are thinking of Harrogate.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Martin Bell, Castleford. I understand the MK snozone has regular training for its staff.
easiski, I knew what you meant by low season. In some countries, Romania for example, young ski instructors don't rely on snowsports for an income and have other strings to their bows.
However I see what you mean, other resort jobs will all be taken.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rjs, AAh - well it begins with H?? I can only plead a bad experience living in Yorkshire ....... 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Snowshark, yes, every week.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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slikedges, Is the training well attended and constructive?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Snowshark, I have to say as a complete outsider here your comments are quite surprising. From what we hear about Cas and the Lions on  s , it sounds a pretty good setup from a customer viewpoint - certainly much better than MK - and I've generally felt quite jealous. If things on the inside are as bad as it sounds from your posts, I wonder how long that will continue?
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Lions may be doing well as a club, but I hear that all their coaches are volunteers and that their chairman refuses to pay coaches. Not a recipe for a professional set up, in my opinion.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Georgio, Maybe we don't expect to get paid.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rjs, You should!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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easiski, rjs, I understand that ski club members around the country often get involved, coaching/instructing during club activities on a voluntary basis. It is commendable. Anything that promotes and develops enthusiasm for snowsports has got to be good for the industry as a whole. I wonder how many of our notable racers started off being coached first by ASSI's followed by a member of whichever ski club they joined - the club development/race coach.
I received coaching from a club race coach many years ago from a lady involved with a club in the south of England. The coaching and tips I received were instrumental in cultivating my growing interest in snowsports.
Had I not been given encouragement, I may have given it up long ago. How many kids, racers or otherwise, have we seen give things up at the first hurdle when all that was needed was a little reassurrance, encouragement and motivation. (a few more of the traits of the coach.)
Club coach's - amateur or professional - are in my mind, and important cog in the development of snowsports. Ultimately it's the professionals who benefit when those enthused kids become adults, paying customers, wishing to recapture the glory or exepriences they enjoyed as child at the local dry slope.
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Snowshark, When I was coaching the Stainforth teams it was one of the things I was most proud of that I managed to get all qualified instructors/coaches. No-one less than a BASI 2 except Tomasz Ondrusz and he's a bit of a special case. With the kids we had them in small groups and insisted that they learn to ski properly first, before going anywhere near the poles. When they did, they could cope and started doing really well and eventually winning .. the adult team at the time won almost everything! Same principles. However it's true that most of us were not paid, but that doesn't mean we were unqualified. I still think coaches should be paid - there's too much in this country IMO of paying nothing or a pittance for anything that seems remotely pleasurable! 
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You know it makes sense.
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easiski, I remember you trying to get me to ski well. As an adult member I didn't do too well. I was an inexperienced skier with much to learn about staying on my feet; but I progressed and your coaching in those months was much appreciated. I was only with Stainforth a relatively short time but remember a positive experience.
As for Tom, I got on with him quite well. Smashing chap - even if he showed no mercy when playing pool.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Snowshark, Oooh - so you're an ex-Stainforth trainee ...... do send me a PM and tell me who you are. Richard Brown is down here in Bath and is an infrequent Snowhead as well if you remember him. Of course Davina and Darren Turner are now both well established in Serre Chevalier ....
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FAQ
