 Poster: A snowHead
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Perhaps entire systems should be looked at, not just the entry levels. Entry level training and qualifications are set and agreed upon in each country of origin and no doubt, in every case, designed to encourage entry and training through a recognised National Snowsports Education scheme.
Of course there will be National rivalry –but that should be kept at a friendly and professional level. We all learn off each other.
Level 2 – again designed to encourage and promote a professional progression through whichever National Snowsports Education system you have chosen.
And so it continues through Level 3 and as far as most professionals I know are concerned – going for and succeeding at L3 – in any system - is an indication of professional commitment and dedication. Surely this type of progression through any system, is what customers/pupils wish to hear.
And as for level 4 – not all countries an equivalent and it seems there is much debate over what would should be required to fulfil the ISTD equivalence. So it would seem the policy of implementing a two tier ISIA stamp system may the the way ahead. That way organisations that fulfil current ISIA minimum standards but fail to achieve ISTD standards would keep their pride and keep ISIA and then hopefully introduce a level within their National Snowsports Education programs to match the levels demanded for ISTD or equivalence.
One day, it would be nice to hear that L1, 2, 3 and 4 are thought of as equivalent qualifications be they BASI, CSIA, PSIA or any other National qualifications.
However, when it comes down to people choosing which system to go through, how many people make choices based on what they see and not what they know.
I particularly like the look of the Canadian website. Information is readily available and well presented. I wonder how many people in UK have made comparisons with that one and BASI before making a decision on which program in whch to enlist?
Food for thought.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Been away and off t'internet for the weekend. Many thanks for the thoughts and advice offered so far.
The attraction of CSIA is tha it does seem to be more focussed on being a good teacher, whereas BASI seems more focussed on being a god skier.
Shoot me down in flames by all means but that impression is one that I have had echoed by a couple of ski instructors.
From my son's point of view his skiing ability is not really in question, at least according to an ex BASI examiner of our aquaintance, so it is more important to think about the opportunities post Level 2 qualification. I think it is fair to predict that being a ski instructor is not the long term career, but a good and worthwile way to spend a Gap Year and some university holidays in the future.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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veeeight,
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Spyderman, Did you do your CSIA L2 in Andorra, or Canada?
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Curious to know why you asked that question?
Was my answer of Canada not the answer you were hoping for?
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It was in response to your assertion of your observations, so I wanted to know if you had observed your observations in Europe or Canada.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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veeeight, There should be no difference, as AFAIAA the CSIA Trainers are brought in from Canada to run the courses.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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From my son's point of view his skiing ability is not really in question, at least according to an ex BASI examiner of our aquaintance, so it is more important to think about the opportunities post Level 2 qualification
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Not trying to be argumentative but if his skiing is very strong I would then probably recommend going with BASI to keep his options open for further training to ISIA/ISTD level. If he goes down the CSIA, PSIA route and lives in Europe he wont be able to get teh advanced courses over here....
As Veeight says it is difficult to switch between associations and you should be careful when picking which one he goes for.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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veeeight, Spyderman, As someone who has spent a considerable amount of time in Andorra, I have to say that in the last few years the CSIA pass levels seem to have been rasied. A Canadian CSIA level 4 course conductor was working for the Grandvalira ski school in Andorra for the whole season.
Having been in both systems, I learn more when I am having fun, so for me it is CSIA any day. (but my BASI was early eighties)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Head J.O. Pro? (What a name!)
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veeeight, They're the one's, saw them at the MK ski test.
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm sorry, slightly off topic i admit, but Felix is a god!
Got to ski with him a couple of times last winter and he got me doing stuff have never had the courage to look down before!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Robbie, we had a great day with Guilia, who works with Felix.
I wonder if he will be back in Verbier this season? I heard he got booted out of Switzerland for not having the right work permits or something. Not sure of the details but bloke-in-a-pub told me. The true story is probably rather dull, and quite likely less interesting!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Good debates fellas, having gone through both BASI and CSIA I can honnestly say I loved both, I think it all depends on where you are planning to work - BASI for example in Canada isn't well regarded most of them say what the hell is BASI? In Europe BASI has a good name but again only in the BASI world if you speak to French, Italians,Swiss,Germans and Spanish they think there standards are the only ones on the planet. When I did my BASI I thought it was the bees knees, I had the pleasure of working and being trained by some of the best BASI trainers and thought becoming a BASI trainer was as close to god status as you could ever imagaine. Now after several seasons in Canada I have had the peasure of working with some of the best CSIA level 4's and I would honnestly say that CSIA has given me a more diverse range of skiing skills to takle the whole mountain. I now feel level 4 CSIA's are tru Jedi's!! Its a tough debate and all I can say is they are both great programs my only gripe about BASI is that I think it is too much of a business!! the costs to become ISIA in BASI compared to CSIA is crazy. As for PSIA I can only tell you what I have seen from PSIA instuctors they don't seem to be that technical, I also get the impression that stevie wonder with wooden legs could pass the entry level PSIA, maybe that was just the PSIA guys I saw??
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My my, look what the cat brought in!  Good to see you on here, I think you have some fans/clients on this site, so look out!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Slightly off thread but may be of relevence to rungsp, Speaking with three mates (all grade 3's) yesterday who are trying to get work in Switzerland.
#1 one has CSIA as well and a couple months teaching experience in Italy. His skiing wasnt that strong and he is really struggling to find work with no full time offers at the moment.
#2 is an ex club racer working in OZ at the moment and is being told to "come in so we can see you ski"
#3 is a very strong skier with years of MK snowdome teaching experience, second discipline license, APC pass and 2 tech scheduled. Very presentable nice fellow in his mid 20's and VERY determined to career change. He approached loads of schools and was told consistently that "we have people we know and have seen ski that we would give preference to". He cleverly took some video at MK doing drills and posted on web and that landed him a full time position in Zermatt.
Sounds to me that having a bog standard 3 and no experience you will struggle to get work in CH....
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skimottaret, I think it's a case of who you know, rather than what you know. An introduction to the head of ski school by a third party is always the best way.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Spyderman, sure but what i was driving at is that a level 2 doesnt count for much IMO if looking for full time work in the mountains. If you want to do school groups, fill in work maybe but they seem to be looking for some experience as well as a good standard of skiing....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skimottaret, Worth doing a bit with Interski first maybe.
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I know a racer and coach who has worked in Verbier every season for a long while who told me it's down to seeing you ski and not qualifications. He has a friend who had no qualifications who not that long ago was invited to teach simply on the strength of his personal skiing being observed by a senior instructor on the slope.
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slikedges, I've been asked to take up teaching a few times by the ski schools back home(skied with trainers/examiners)..... but unless i wanted to stay at a lower pay level I'd still need to take the exams at some point....(highest pay rate is to higher qualified staff)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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little tiger, "back home" being ireland?
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skimottaret,
I also know lots of grade 3s who sought work the season after qualifying, and all were successful. Most had about 2 or 3 weeks work experience with Interski or similar, in addition to 4 weeks shadowing. Along with a good reference and contact names, which as Spyderman says - who you know is key - network at every opportunity!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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skimottaret, to quote a certain singer songwriter..... "I still call Australia home"
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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beanie1, thats good to hear, a few weeks at least sounds the absolute min experience you need, plus being able to ski a bit...
little tiger, ahh, ireland sounded a bit of a long shot..
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skimottaret, yeah they have a ski instructor association here.... but no mountains or snow... so I think they must be dryslope....
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You know it makes sense.
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veeeight,
Hola my little snow mate, yes got that impression always nice and a few recomends from you last season so thanks very much!!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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theskidoctor, welcome to snowheads!  Do I take it you teach at Sunshine or Lake louise?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Yes Sunshine and how about you?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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little tiger, saw the IASI training in Hintertux last year. Looked like they knew what they were doing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Should get to see PSIA training methods first hand this winter. Don't expect to be jumping ship though. But it'll be good to see another take on the theme and I expect I'll learn something along the way.
theskidoctor, your comments re CSIA interest me. The Canadian web site also has useful literature available free of charge. I also understand BASI are beginning to incorporate Canadian coaching methods - but I may be wrong. It would, however, be nice if BASI could incorporate more training material on the web site. But maybe business targets put them off doing so.
easiski, long time no see. Hope you're well.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowshark - I agree I think the CSIA website has alot of good literature, some great video also, where are you going to see PSIA??
Our head coach has a manual from PSIA for the resort of Vail its probably the best on hill instructor manual I have ever seen, it fits into your pocket and ha drills and exercises for every ski move you can think of.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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theskidoctor - I'm heading out to Stowe in November. I understand the ski school has regular instructor training sessions which I'll gladly take part in.
May not start through the PSIA system though as I'm already going through BASI and returning to Europe in April for ISIA courses, but I'll make that decision when I see what's what in Stowe. As I said before, it'll be good to see another take on the theme. Looking forward to adding new delivery methods, techniques and drills to the tool box. All good for experience in my mind. And it's always good to know what's happening on the other side of a hill.
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theskidoctor, Vail teaching handbook? Yeah I have that at home - excellent little book! 
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Snowshark - I work fulltime at Stowe. Looking forward to meeting you. We have quite a few of your countrymen (and women) here. Some BASIs and some working throug PSIA.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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epic - I'm looking forward to the season, thanks.
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Snowshark, congrats on getting a season in the states, i am guessing you are a grade 3, did you have much trouble getting employed?
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