 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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elbrus, Hemel has 5 SSE Coaches, 1 SSS Trainer & 1 BASI ISTD Trainer. The Monday BASI Coach training day is an oportunity for non BASI course trainers, from the home nations, to join BASI and provide the L1 courses on their behalf.
Hemel has not run a SSE ASSI course for about 4 years, it has been exclusively been SSS ASSI.
It is hoped, that once Hemel goes to indoor snow, Hemel & Manchester will be the North & South centres of excellence for BASI L1 training.
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Am I right:
BASI level 1 ski instructor
BASI level II ski instructor
BASI ski teacher ISIA
BASI International diploma
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Yes, you're right.
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How does the coaches award (SSE) stand against BASI awards?
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BASI has 2 separate programs, 1 for Instructors as you've listed and a new scheme run by the newly formed BASC (British Assc of Snowsports Coaches) which will have 4 levels also. There is no equivilence for a SSE Coach into the BASI Instructor program.
veeeight, BASI haven't used Grade 3,2,1 for at least 8 years. The Ski Instructor, Teacher, ISTD grading is more in touch with the Euro gradings. I don't think L1 & L2 is the smartest designation they could have used though, they would have been better using a word for the L1 rather than a number.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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laundryman, Don't mention the War. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I guess the fact that the entry levels are called instructor ( L1 and L2) is descriptive of the job these guys will do. They will work in a ski school set up with typical ski school clients. L1 is for closed environments and L2 takes in the mountain environment. Most clients will meet these instructors on a daily basis. The ISIAs will be senior instructors and can lead off piste(not in France) with restrictions and the ISTDs are heads of ski schools or working for themselfs (in France).
It does make sence when you look at what each award is aimed at. For Hemel to be a centre of exellence they will need a majority of BASI qualified staff. Its getting clearer! The head man there is an ISIA I think.
Manchester is clearer as the 2 top ski guys there are both ISTD ( an one is a trainer).
We will bite them on the feaches! I fully support it to be fair. SSE scheme is currently on its rear end!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| veeeight, BASI haven't used Grade 3,2,1 for at least 8 years. The Ski Instructor, Teacher, ISTD grading is more in touch with the Euro gradings. I don't think L1 & L2 is the smartest designation they could have used though, they would have been better using a word for the L1 rather than a number. |
That may well be that case that BASI themselves haven't used 3,2,1 for at least 8 years, but every Instructor (BASI or not) I've met past or present has always refered to 3,2 1. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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skimottaret, I admire your tenacity, getting to grips with all this stuff!
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elbrus,
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The head man there is an ISIA I think.
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The Head of the Ski school is a BASI ISIA, but Hemel also have a BASI ISTD Trainer, that works very closely with the slope, lives in Hemel and runs the SSS and BASI L1 courses.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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veeeight,
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every Instructor (BASI or not) I've met past or present has always refered to 3,2 1.
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Old habits die hard.
skimottaret,
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my suspicion is that BASI is going to go like Canada and have levels 1 through 4
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Good idea, but no plans to change, as Euro zone don't use numbers either.
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Spyderman, I assume you're talking about PS-G . Other than him, in your initial list you only listed SSE/SSS. Surely you have some other BASIs there as well - yourself for example?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Check out the Irish www.iasisnowsports.ie they have a level system with numbers and names!
L1 artificial ski slope instructor
L2 ski instructor
L3 Ski teacher ISIA
L4 National ski teacher
They look like they have a great system. ISIA and IVSI members ( BASI dont have the IVSI) and they are Euro group members so the level 4s can teach in France. Also there is a coaching strand to match. Very slick!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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GrahamN,
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I assume you're talking about PS-G
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Yes.
We have other BASI Ski Instructors, can't remember how many, about 6/7 I think, plus some that have done the course, failed and need to do tech resits. 6 CSIA Instructors. The rest are mainly SSS/SSE ASSI's and a handful of CI's.
Plus of course the Snowboard Instructors, there's some BASI one's there too. Oh, 1 BASI Nordic as well.
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MK is a strong BASI/SSS ASSI slope. Plus they have a handfull of CSIA. I know they got 2 ASSI tutors ( SSS) and one of them is a BASI ISTD.
New boy running Gosling is a BASI ISTD ( he just started). How will he shake thinks up? More BASI level 1 courses I suspect.
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You know it makes sense.
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elbrus,
Funny that the main man is a BASI.
"Our trainers have the highest international qualification and are headed by our Director of Training Derek Tate."
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I'm always curious as to the level of qualification ski instructors have, but always feel its something I shouldn't really ask!
Spyderman, I know you have BASI and CSIA quals - do you mind if I ask what level you are and where you teach? Do you just teach on dry slopes or do you also teach out in resort in the winter? Just interested to know what instructors do 
Any other instructor snowHeads?
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Poster: A snowHead
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elbrus,
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MK is a strong BASI/SSS ASSI slope. Plus they have a handfull of CSIA. I know they got 2 ASSI tutors ( SSS) and one of them is a BASI ISTD.
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A lot of the Hemel guys also teach at MK, so there is a certain amount of cross over. We're pretty much talking about the same people.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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cathy, I have SSS ASSI, SSE ASSI, BASI Ski Instructor and CSIA II.
I have taught at Hemel since 1991 and have been involved in their new intake Instructor program for the last 2 years. Which is why I take such an interest in what is available with regard to qualifications. Will hopefully teach at MK also from September this year.
Too busy with a business in UK, mortgage, Wife, 2 kids & Dog. to teach in resort. Although a nice thought.
Looking at BASI Coaching scheme as next step, plus maybe CSIA III, BASI Ski Teacher is prohibitive as regards time and cost, plus I have no need for the qualification, as I will probably never teach abroad. Might do some of the training modules though.
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Any other instructor snowHeads?
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Yes there are, plenty.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| laundryman wrote: |
| skimottaret, I admire your tenacity, getting to grips with all this stuff! |
i still remain amazed at how complex the answer is to a simple question like "what qualification do i need to teach in France or at my local dry slope?"
i stuck with it as i like teaching and am hoping to carry on with my qualifications, but sometimes it is unbelievable....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Basi are/were trying to get away from the system of numbering the instructor levels.
They are currently using:
Trainee (foundation course) equivalent to snowsport scotland ASSI
Ski Instructor (old BASI 3) approx same as CSIA 2
Ski Teacher (ISIA level) (old BASI 2) IVIA equivalent, approx same as CSIA 3 but the CSIA 3 has no race training or mountain safety and is much cheaper.
International Ski Teacher (old BASI 1)
but most members still refer to the old system cos its easier
You can only work in France as an independent with BASI 1, or work for a French training school with BASI 2 and your test technique (slalom test).
You can work in Andorra with BASI 3 and an extra module (you have to have done at least 4 weeks of courses)
You can work for a ski school in Austria with BASI 3, Switzerland with no qualification.
USA and Canada with BASI 3 though you often only get paid as a PSIA 1 or CSIA 1 despite the fact that BASI 3 courses are 3 weeks in total and are a higher standard and the other courses are as little as 3 days.
The best way to get better is to work for a ski school that has a strong training programme and encourage instructors to improve themselves.
For us as a ski school the qualifications people have are a good starting point but it always comes down to experience, how keen people are, what people want etc. So if anyone is interested in a job in Switzerland (full time or part time) we are recruiting at Altitude Snowsports School Verbier and we also run instructor training courses and gap courses.
Of course there’s always huge amounts of discussions about what system is best, what level equivalent to what etc. and I think it comes down to each system is designed to fulfill the needs of that particular country, in which lies England’s problem of not having any resorts, and of course you need something to talk about in the pub
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This is very true. BASI have a system that allows each candidate to take a qualification that will meet their needs. ie If you want to work on a dry slope you will go for an ASSI ( level 1), if you need to make a living as a pro you will go for an ISTD or ISIA qualification. We have people who teach for a hobby and people who need to pay the rent!
France see ski teaching as a profession, so there is only 1 level and it high. Its a question of "what you intend to do as a ski instructor". The qualification is the starting point. I have seen ISTDs who have no people skills and cant teach (they can ski) and I have seen Club instructors (CI SSE entry award) who give great lessons. Also seen it the other way round!
This debate is about do we have one body in the UK ( I think yes for the record) or do we have 3 all slagging each other. BASI is the logical body as training ski instructors/teachers is what they do and they have the international experience. The trainers are highly qualified and go through a continued quality control system ( they have to re validate every year). Who validates the SSE boys! Its been the same bunch of guys for 20 years! Also, its worth remembering that the CI and ASSI awards were set up to service clubs in the 60s as amateurs. the very name CLUB instructor remains to this day. The ski industry is now very different in the UK.
IVSI ( international federation ( verband is German) of snowsport instructors) is the organisation that unites ski instructors who work in clubs as amatures. SSE is the uk member and their coaches are awarded with the iVSI stamp. This is not a qualification to work as a professional ( paid for your services)
This is how I understand it, whats the forums members thoughts.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I like the idea of saying "I'm an ISIA with the IASI"
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or "im an IASI with an ISIA" you see it works both ways!
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Are you with .....the peoples front of Judea........or.....the judean peoples front?
Spliters the lot of them!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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elbrus, Take a look at the description of the history of the IVSI that is on the SSE website. It started out assuming that instructors would be unpaid, but does not make that distinction now.
The level 2 race coach qualifications of SSE and SSS qualify for an IVSI stamp as well as SSE development coaches.
I don't see anything wrong with the new BASI level 1 being required to teach commercial lessons within the UK. My club does not pay anyone who teaches during club sessions though and I think it is a mistake to remove the amateur qualification track.
France also has a split between amateur and professional qualifications. There are multiple levels of amateur qualification.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ris, thanks for that. What does the IVSI allow the holder to do? As I understand it, the technical skiing levels along with mountain safety are not unlike the ISIA. Is it issued at the correct level in the UK (SSE coachs APC)?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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dom, welcome to snowHeads. I met both the C&A brothers at the Ski Show last year, if you were there as well then we could well have met! Good to have your contribution this year. What sort of numbers are you recruiting for this season?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| elbrus wrote: |
IVSI ( international federation ( verband is German) of snowsport instructors) is the organisation that unites ski instructors who work in clubs as amatures. SSE is the uk member and their coaches are awarded with the iVSI stamp. This is not a qualification to work as a professional ( paid for your services)
This is how I understand it, whats the forums members thoughts. |
That's not quite it.
An IVSI licence is awarded to qualified Alpine Development Coaches, who will then have autonomy to work withing their own coaching groups. So an IVSI holder would be able to say bring a coaching group, an improvement group, or a group of race kids over to the Alps (subject to local restrictions) to coach and train them.
An IVSI licence does not permit the holder to sell his/her services in a ski resort as an insturctor, nor to take anyone on for money that is not part of their original group.
Whereas an ISIA licence allows the commercial activity (subject to local regulations).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Spyderman wrote: |
...Check out the Irish www.iasisnowsports.
"Our trainers have the highest international qualification and are headed by our Director of Training Derek Tate." |
Hehe, Derek Tate was my first ever instructor & now runs BASS Chamonix with his missus Shona, who ran my SSS ASSI course at Castleford. They're both from Scotland & AFAIK go back there in the off season. Both places are a long way from Ireland
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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elbrus,
Do you know P S-G? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| Do you know P S-G? |
Paris Saint-Germain?
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elbrus, I'd go with veeeight, description. I think something might have been lost in translation in the interski article. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Spyderman, your a hemel man right? Is the new slope and set up going to give MK a kick in the pants?
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FAQ
I meant would any other ski instructor snowHeads like to say what their qualifications are and where they teach? Apart from Easiski of course! 