 Poster: A snowHead
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Well - as the change from a pretty damn unresponsive 1:1 angle (ok - I'm only a beginner) to a 1:2 was illuminating.... I'm gonna go the whole hog and bang a 3 degree on the side. I'll keep the double layer of insulation tape angle for the base (I'm scared to measure hehehe) but I don't mind hurling myself over to engage the edge (I'm a biker for Gods sake).
Soooo.. anyone wanna swap a 2 degree angle guide for a 3? Sj.... you sell angles?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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spyderjon, Nice one fella - could you PM me with details once you get some 3s in. I believe that 2 layers of tape on the file equates approx to a 1 degree base edge, I seem to be used to it anyhow  Guess if I ever buy a base angle guide I'd try a 0.75. I was meaning (prev post) that with the 1 degree angle I have at the moment I feel that I have to deliberately tip myself into a turn to engage the edges. As I gain more control over my skis I'll probably reduce this a touch to get a quicker response.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Scarpa, Ditch the tape & buy a base guide, they're only £5 & are available in 0.5, 0.7, 1 & 1.5 degrees. Remember that if your existing base angle is greater than 0.7 then the only way you can reduce it is to have a base grind & then reset the edge.
0.7 is a good setting as it's very skiable but gives some tuning 'leeway' up to 1 degree (say after damage) without worrying about over bevelling or needing a grind.
Ah, I see what you mean re the 1 degree base edge - sorry for trying to teach you to suck eggs 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| .. a 1,2 tune & a 1,3 tune in ... a 3 degree side edge ... a 0.5 vs. a 1 degree base bevel. |
This is a fascinating and educational thread. Would you please clarify some terminology? In a earlier post you used the terms quoted above. Frequently two numbers separated by a comma were used. At first I thought it was a European style decimal point, now I am not so sure. Then then angles for "side edge" and "base bevel" are used.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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After asking the above question I spent some time reading spyderjon's website. It did not answer my question but it was a very informative read. I would recommend it to anyone wanting to know more about ski tuning.
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Adrian, Adrian, it's just "base angle,side angle", so "1,2" indicates a base angle of 1 degree and side of 2 degrees. Sometimes I've seen things like 0.5-1,2 meaning base angle of 0.5 to 1 degree and side of 2 degrees..
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spyderjon,
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| There is absolutely no downside to 3 degree side edge bevel in any snow condition. |
Except that it's harder to release the edge when locked in to a carve. And hence requires better technique.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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visionset, I see your point. As my Atomics came from the factory with a 3 degree edge I've no way of comparing.
However I didn't notice any difference in that respect when I changed my old 5*'s from 2 to 3 degrees. I also know plenty of people who gone from 2 to 3 & haven't had a problem in that area but maybe that's because if you're keen enough to be playing around with edge angles then your technique is probably reasonable.
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Just thought I'd throw this in, from Warren Witherell's "The Athletic Skier":-
"Many racers, recreational skiers, and ski tuning shops advocate bevelling ski bases. They claim it "makes skiing easier". Some swear by 1 degree of bevel; others argue for 2. What's the "advantage"?
We have explored this subject with great care. With very few exceptions, ski manufacturers tell us their skis perform best when the bases are flat - perfectly flat with the steel edge recessed .001 to .002 of an inch. Top racers, who we know are perfectly canted, assure us their skis work best when flat. One says simply: "If the bases are bevelled, the skis make surf turns."
We are convinced that most skiers who advocate bevelling their bases are in fact over-canted. It helps your perspective to remember that a majority of all skiers are over-canted in today's boots. Because their boots force their knees out, they get too much edge from their skis. Canting is simple geometry. One degree of bevel under the ski base is the same as one degree under the bootsole. Bevelling the ski base does help their stance; and it eases some problems of over-edging. It also hinders ski performance. That's a net loss. The ski base is not the best place to cant."
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Yoda wrote: |
| ........We have explored this subject with great care. With very few exceptions, ski manufacturers tell us their skis perform best when the bases are flat - perfectly flat with the steel edge recessed .001 to .002 of an inch. Top racers, who we know are perfectly canted, assure us their skis work best when flat. One says simply: "If the bases are bevelled, the skis make surf turns." |
Yoda, Sorry Yoda but I think their statement is bollox. I've tried skiing a flat base/edge setup at Castleford following a base grind & it's pretty scary. I've also tried a pair of SL11's that I tuned to 0.3,4 for a guy to race on manmade & water injected snow. That was even scarier & after getting boot balanced in the US as pretty close to being perfectly canted. I've spoken to most of the main manufacturers over the last year re tuning set-up's & none of them advocate a flat base edge.
I do agree with their comments that many people are skiing with either 'high bases' &/or over bevelled bases as I see this all the time on clients skis - all of which have usually had a number of shop tunes were the base angle is always worked on  .
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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spyderjon, Yoda, I think this sounds like it has been taken out of context. I read what Yoda has quoted as meaning that the entire base is bevelled across its width to alter the canting - i.e. if someone is over-canted and always catches outside edges, then the whole base could be bevelled by 1 degree (base ground to remove more from one side than the other). Note the last comment in the quote: "the ski base is not the best place to cant".
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You know it makes sense.
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petemillis, you may be right, as I was wondering why they were saying "bases" and not "edges". I'm not familiar with "base bevelling" - anyone know anything about it?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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FAQ
) but stock due in a few days.
