 Poster: A snowHead
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| little tiger wrote: |
| Other big practice point... as I am a slow twitch kind of girl... my staatliche that I ski with back home has a current exercise he wants me to do to get "faster feet" .... just edge roll down a road/run out ... but instead of the long slow edge changes... do them as FAST as you possibly can... just keep swapping those edges.... (NOTE - be sure you can do solid edge rolls first - and you WILL lose it if you try to go as fast as possible - so be balanced and prepared and use flat/easy terrain staying away from others...) |
This sounds as if it's related to what I think of as 'faster feet'.
Ski or skates, gliding, inactive feet tend to get 'lazy', ie they require a stronger intent to move.
Why wait for that extra chemical reaction of "intent" in the brain? Keep 'em moving, let the eyes and reflexes sort out direction, and don't wait for the debate of "intent" to resolve itself. One can then honestly say 'Oh, I meant to do that'.
There might be a plyometric advantage also, the biomechanically better-qualified can speak to that.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| comprex wrote: |
| little tiger wrote: |
| Other big practice point... as I am a slow twitch kind of girl... my staatliche that I ski with back home has a current exercise he wants me to do to get "faster feet" .... just edge roll down a road/run out ... but instead of the long slow edge changes... do them as FAST as you possibly can... just keep swapping those edges.... (NOTE - be sure you can do solid edge rolls first - and you WILL lose it if you try to go as fast as possible - so be balanced and prepared and use flat/easy terrain staying away from others...) |
This sounds as if it's related to what I think of as 'faster feet'.
...
There might be a plyometric advantage also, the biomechanically better-qualified can speak to that. |
the guy that gave it to me says when he was doing staatliche training they made him do these - for RUNS on end... until they literally could do no more... but that over time they did become much faster (he was already a specialist slalom racer so he had a reasonable idea of his foot speed)
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| little tiger wrote: |
| the guy that gave it to me says when he was doing staatliche training they made him do these - for RUNS on end... until they literally could do no more... |
Ouch!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I just realised that was how I was taught to ski in Austria, and I still fall back into using the wedel technique when skiing (it became second nature) if I don't concentrate on carving a turn.
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| PhillipStanton wrote: |
| little tiger wrote: |
| the guy that gave it to me says when he was doing staatliche training they made him do these - for RUNS on end... until they literally could do no more... |
Ouch! |
yep... about 100m is my "ouch" limit (or was last I tried)... in that space my inside/outside calves are screaming and I start to really miss more changes than I hit (lose the simultaneous part... or such as it is... get all kerfuffly)
the physios commented on my lower legs when I went for a deep tissue massage thingy.. (with my health fund they work out cheap so i try to get one or two when I ski for the month).... "oh they have been making you do edge work"
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PhillipStanton, IMHO, no, wedeln is not a good idea to pursue. Watch the video above. See how his pole plant is out to the side and trggers his turn?
I know I am putting myself up for ridicule here but I think that's literally triggering the turn through pre-rotation. I think that might help.
Look, let's face it, only 10 (or so) weeks to go and I can show you what I mean - he he he he.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| Look, let's face it, only 10 (or so) weeks to go and I can show you what I mean - he he he he. |
It's not like I'm counting or anything...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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David Murdoch,
ummm well he who did them says this
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Correct wedeln is done with forward pressure and rotary input which makes the shovels bite and ALLOWS the LIGHTENED tails of the skis to brush out. Why wedeln was so revolutionary was that it was the first time turns, even quick ones, could be performed from the hips down without involving the upper body. Previously upper body input in the form of rotation or counter rotation was involved as turning forces.
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http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?p=94053&highlight=wedeln#post94053
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David Murdoch - you don't want to cross little tiger - she's a bit too wizzy with her web references 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Nice links little tiger.
David Murdoch - as Homer would say...beer. MMMMMmmmmmm.
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You know it makes sense.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| little tiger, me heading beerwards: |
i want beer too.... but I am stuck here with gin and cointreau...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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oh I;m with David Murdoch... i don't know that wedeln will speed up short turns...
the fast edge rolls supposedly speed up the edge change...
I think being able to get hips moving forward makes it much easier to move faster with feet... but then maybe that is a me thingy... I can give you a name of italian instructor to play with if you like .... ex WC racer - but he is a downhiller... although a friend of Rocca so he tells me
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| PhillipStanton wrote: |
| A kind offer, but I'm sortof tied up most of the season... |
 kinky
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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PhillipStanton, I think you are about to get on the wrong side of the wrong person... - I mean the Tiger one...
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David Murdoch - good point...
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| PhillipStanton, I think you are about to get on the wrong side of the wrong person... - I mean the Tiger one... |
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PhillipStanton, I really have to stress something that was mentioned above, how important anticipation is.
If you do not "think ahead" you will ski reactivly and totally without a rythm. You will be late into every single situation. This will result in you missing your line, not totally but just slightly enlough to get out of the rythm.
What I do when I want to practice short turns is that I mentally set up a tight corridor at one side of the piste. I prepare by looking at it. I studdy the snow and look for my line. Once Im off my focus is on the turns comming up within 4-6 turns. Meaning that Im NOT focusing at all at the turn that Im doing. This does tie in with the "too much thinking comment". At least for me a slalom turn is second nature. So thinking about the current turn doesnt give anything all it does is that it hurts my situation awarness and throws my rythm off as I dont know my line.
I think the fast feet you speak of is actually "get in the zone". Your in the zone and you dont know how to get there but you do get there.
I would say that it comes from you find the rythem and a great line. If your problem is that you dont plan ahead you will end up running into great lines and dropping out of them on a more random basis.
Tex
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for that TexMurphy and I largely agree.
The only thing I'd say is that, certainly on piste, I can and do choose my line and do what you say.
The thing I've experienced, though, are flashes of me not having to do any of that consciously and it just happening for me.
| TexMurphy wrote: |
| I think the fast feet you speak of is actually "get in the zone". Your in the zone and you dont know how to get there but you do get there. |
The more I discuss this, the more I'm realising that.
Maybe I should take a large, friendly vallium before I go skiing!
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The harder the run the less "secure/comfortable" one feels and the more one starts to look near the tips of ones skis. This is the worst thing that can happen because the harder it gets the more rythem you need to get through it.
Out of a practice perspective Id recommend stoping every time you loose the rythem or feel that you are looking at the snow near the skis. Stop refocus and go again.
Compare this with driving a car. Remember when you started driving how you where looking 5-10 meters infront of the car driving slowly and having a hard time to drive straight. Now you are looking 500 meters ahead and have no problem driving straight.
Same thing.
I think your mental "kicker" for this could be "look further into the distance". You stand at the top you start by looking at your tips, raising your eyes you look further down the piste till you find a focus point about 30 meters ahead. When you got the focus point you go and you keep looking at the same distance absorbing the information as it comes to you. You will note that you cant take it all in to start with and your focus point starts comming closer. Stop. Refocus. Same procudure rince and repeat.
Tex
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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That was Ric before his accident last year.
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Thanks veeeight.
I do like Bob's perpetual GIFs.
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You know it makes sense.
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We were taught Wedeln as a useful technique for bump skiing by our BASI trainer when we were in Argentina last month. Most of us were fairly hopeless at it but the speed that our trainer could do it and the way he used it in the bumps was impressive; note that he wasn't using the technique the whole time in the bumps, just mixing in a few wedeln style turns where necessary to maintain his line or to confuse anyone following...
The reason that we were working on it was (like braquage) that it was good for getting us balanced over the correct point of the ski; you need to be balanced over the centre of the ski as you're aiming to rotate the ski about the foot (not around the tip or the tail) and if you're too far forward or too far back then this just doesn't work...
There's some discussion about it here http://forums.epicski.com/archive/index.php?t-9195.html
And finally, Phil, back to your original question... I have the same problem in the bumps, it's always due to the fact that my hips have dropped back and I'm no longer centred on the ski, the tails start to catch slightly and my feet slow down and then I get thrown out of the line I was in... The main thing I need to work on now is keeping my self centred all the time rather than just most of the time...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks for the link Len Holgate - it's an interesting thread.
The more I read about it the more I'm convinced that it's what I'm doing...
Anyway, lots of opportunity to video in our pre-Christmas week.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Len Holgate, I was at Warren Smith's class yesterday at Castleford & the slope staff had built up some bumps. Warren had has practicing both braquage & wedeln turns as skills that needed to be mastered for successful bump skiing.
Warren wedeln turns were very impressive when he skied the bumps down the fall-line on only one ski  .
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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spyderjon, I did a lot of braquage with Warren in Saas Fee and Verbier but I hadn't seen him use wedeln turns, having tried them in Argentina though I'm not surprised that he is using them as they fit nicely with his approach. If only I could actually do them at a reasonable speed, still, it gives me something to work on this season, I guess... 
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 11-10-06 21:38; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| ssh wrote: |
| If you're going to do the braquage, just beware of the polygon of sustintation. |
Especially if you're on B5's
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| veeeight wrote: |
| Braquage, or Pivot Slips......Is normally performed on a hardpack or icy steepish slope, and straight down the fall line (as there are little or no edges involved). |
Warren likes to do these drills in crappy chopped up stuff to really drive that thigh steering. Any foot steering in & you're over the leading edge.
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c.f. the Epicski skite "they used to tie ropes around their knees to learn"...
really??? Never heard of that before. However, roping chalet girls' ankles and wrists ...is an entirely different marmite des poissons 
Herr Gangl's comment "those terms described what wedeln looked like, not how it was done" is very apt however. Isn't that often the case?
Reading the Epic thread, it seems to miss what I find most important in bumps or very short, fast turns - anticipation. No-one else find that useful or important?
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David Murdoch, yes, anticipation is still important, although now referred to primarily as "counter" or "counter balancing" and the like. It is much less than it used to be, and there's much less "unwinding" necessary to get the skis around. But, especially in short turns, it's still there.
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FAQ
I think I'm spending too much time reading about skiing....
