 Poster: A snowHead
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@holidayloverxx, I am trying to differentiate where is free rescue and where is not. Inside resort boundaries is paying whether on piste or off piste. Outside resort boundaries ( agree off piste by definition ) is free rescue.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Outside resort boundaries ( agree off piste by definition ) is free rescue.
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no, not so simple. If that's right, why that charge for an unsuccessful heli rescue?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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you've not read my posts very carefully either, @pateman99. I said that in my experience of 15 seasons skiing in France I didn't come across the concept of "resort boundaries" even when being very careful about choosing insurance for my cautious off piste forays.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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no, not so simple. If that's right, why that charge for an unsuccessful heli rescue?
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because it was inside the resort boundaries and therefore chargeable. They seemingly ignored warnings and therefore their insurance refused to pay the charges
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| johnE wrote: |
@Hells Bells, Indeed she did but there is no actual check that you did the journey. It just makes travel through passport control easier.
@holidayloverxx, Indeed they would know exactly which card was used, but there is only actually one physical card. Sometimes my wife uses it, sometimes me, and my son swipes it over the reader at the toll booths. |
Fair enough, I'm sure you'll be on CCTV somewhere 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I didn't come across the concept of "resort boundaries" even when being very careful about choosing insurance for my cautious off piste forays.
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A quick google search came up with the following
"Off-piste skiing and snowboarding (within resort boundaries and in recognised areas) " cut and paste from Post Office ski insurance website
" Our winter sports insurance add-on covers adventurous off-piste skiers and boarders as long as it’s on recognised paths within resort boundaries and accompanied by a qualified guide or instructor. " cut and paste from Admiral winter sports insurance.[quote]
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recognised paths within resort boundaries
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But what does mean in Europe? That was the basis of the argument I had with Dogtag - the French "piste" is translated by "path" in most contexts. And who would determine where the "boundaries" of a resort are, if you had an expensive rescue and the authorities were arguing about who should pay?
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My point was that insurers do use the phrase ' resort boundaries '. To my mind neither of those quoted policies make any sense and I would not wish to waste my money on such a policy. Eventually I think @Origen, we have found something we can agree on !
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Origen, my understanding is that in France, according to French law, rescue is nominally free (although not necessarily all other associated costs) apart from when you are in "domaine skiable". This page goes to some extent of explaining it:
https://simplysavoie.com/mountain-rescue-in-the-french-alps/
For those who otherwise wouldn't have any insurance to cover rescue in a "domaine skiable" Carre Neige fills the gap.
At least in France, I think you'd have reasonable argument that "within resort boundaries" equates to "domaine skiable."
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But that's a different argument from whether you are "off piste" if you have insurance only covering you for pistes. I suppose if you were injured off a piste, and had no insurance, then on that argument it would be wise to drag yourself as far as you could towards the wilder parts of the mountain in the hope that your rescue would then be free. But you'd struggle to know, as you inched forward with your injuries, when you'd passed that Rubicon and could relax and wait for free rescue.
As I said earlier in this discussion, it was clear when I did my "morning with the pisteurs" that they quite often rescued people who were off piste, and had special kit for that job. And no doubt send for a heli when necessary. And they would no doubt charge people, as they do for on-piste rescue. If you weren't insured for off piste your insurance might decline to pay the bill. Whether the "mountain rescue" system would then pick up the cost, which could be considerable, would, on your reckoning, depend on where the boundary of the "domaine skiable" was deemed to be. I have never, in all these years, seen any glimmer of such a discussion.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've just been googling to see how resort boundaries in the US are identified and whilst there's nothing very clear, there are references to "gates". Does that mean there are fences? 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Origen, this post started with the OP referring to "off piste inbounds" which is what several people have responded to. You appear to be trying to discuss on piste vs off piste, which I don't think there is any debate about.
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Sorry, I probably wasn't very clear. I was trying to discuss the "free" versus the "paid for" rescue service, which entails locating the mythical "resort boundary".
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You know it makes sense.
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| Origen wrote: |
| Sorry, I probably wasn't very clear. I was trying to discuss the "free" versus the "paid for" rescue service, which entails locating the mythical "resort boundary". |
And, as per the article I've linked, I don't think it is "mythical" in France but appears to enshrined in law and pretty clearly defined as being in our outside the "domaine skiable" (although not being a french speaker I'm in no position to verify this).
It would be interesting if @davidof, @Idris or others can clarify this at all?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Origen wrote: |
| I've just been googling to see how resort boundaries in the US are identified and whilst there's nothing very clear, there are references to "gates". Does that mean there are fences? |
There is a rope boundary around the perimeter of the resort. The "gates" are just gaps in the boundary where you are allowed to exit the resort to access backcountry skiing. They are usually just a metre or 2 wide and have huge signs (sometimes with skull and crossbones) warning you e.g.
https://swiftmedia.s3.amazonaws.com/mountain.swiftcom.com/images/sites/5/2023/12/15172125/7b6dsduzl9s4y49nd1lisypmw3k5-scaled-2-768x576.jpeg
It would be pretty impossible to go out of bounds without realising, there's no grey areas.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm thinking the way to go might be an insurance product like the Carré Neige Saison or AAC along with GHIC and standard travel insurance. I looked into medical costs for France and it seems repatriation back to the UK is a maximum of £25k and healthcare costs would me limited to a small number of thousands with the GHIC so I don't need millions in cover. If anyone has any suggestions for Carré Neige Saison type products that would be very helpful. I have emailed them to confirm the situation with repatriation.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks for that clarification, @boarder2020. I think that backs up my assertion that if there is such a concept as a "resort boundary" in Europe, it would be impossible to know when you've crossed it.
And that nobody should rely on an insurance policy which claims to cover "off piste within resort boundaries" in Europe.
@MAthert, the thing that could cost you millions is a third party claim. Third party insurance is now compulsory in Italy - don't know about elsewhere, but it's probably one of the things we should all check anyway. If renting accommodation in France, where contracts (whether you read them or not) will normally specify the renter must hold insurance to cover, e.g. the place burning down during their occupancy, it's also important to check your holiday insurance covers that. Mine, with my bank, does both.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We are going with AAC AWS. if you have your own accommodation e.g second home or motorhome and using your own transportation e.g. your car or camper then travel insurance doesn’t really offer anything. Thanks for all the help.
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