 Poster: A snowHead
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| adithorp wrote: |
| @Blast, look at it this way, being on piste/off piste is like pregnant/not pregnant. There's no such thing as a little bit of either. Insurance companies are pedants and you're either covered pr you're not; They'd rather not pay out if they can find a reason to avoid it. |
Hmm. Is a certain level of reasonableness is not required in contract law in general though?
For example I think if an insurer relied on the fact that you fell from the piste to somewhere technically off piste in order to avoid costs, a court may well not look favourably on that. If you were deliberately the wrong side of a piste pole and again someone tried to use that as a "get out of jail free card" when it was in fact totally irrelevant, again, it seems to me it'd be at least worth taking legal advice on that.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I suspect the vast majority of skiers never venture past the markers, and so on-piste only insurance is perfectly adequate. Not that avalanches can't happen on pistes - I've seen avalanches make it on to one of the busiest blue pistes in Flaine.
AAC membership provides cover for rescue and medical costs, but isn't travel insurance, so the Nationwide insurance covers us in the event of breaking a leg the week before the ski holiday, which the AAC won't, then we use the AAC insurance to cover the possibility of injury etc off piste. We have one of the packages with Nationwide with phone insurance and breakdown, and for us the combined package together with AAC membership to cover climbing and off-piste skiing works well and is more cost effective than getting one travel insurance package that covers everything.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Blast, the likes of MPI, LV, Snowcard seem fine - though it may be cheaper to go bog standard + CN or other nation equivalent.
Or Multitrip - who I only discounted because you have to wear a helmet - which most do but I don't.
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| Quote: |
There is no requirement whatsoever to replace transceivers after "3 or 4 years". That's absolute nonsense
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True, what nonsense, test them daily before heading out the lift station.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@phil_w, You're probably right but I wouldn't like to rely on claiming to have fallen off the piste. Then again, maybe you've got deeper pockets than me to argue the case 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just on insurance I was really surprised to find that both nationwide's insurance does cover off piste, so does my wife's (Lloyds). It has changed in the last couple of years I think particularly with the growth of off piste skiing (I know the change happened a long time ago but banks take time to catch up). Worthwhile reading your wintersport cover, I am going to check again before I go this time in case it has changed again, but worthwile checking.
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@Layne
You say "CN or other nation equivalent" but I'm struggling to find clarity on the equivalents.
Austria - I there is a lift pass add-on there? I don't think so - hence Austrian Alpine Club membership needed or will they rescue from on piste or off piste regardless?
And what about Italy?
I don't go Switzerland as I hear its expensive though this reputation might be exaggerated.
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| dorhar wrote: |
| Just on insurance I was really surprised to find that both nationwide's insurance does cover off piste, so does my wife's (Lloyds). It has changed in the last couple of years I think particularly with the growth of off piste skiing (I know the change happened a long time ago but banks take time to catch up). Worthwhile reading your wintersport cover, I am going to check again before I go this time in case it has changed again, but worthwile checking. |
One issue is debates about what qualifies as off piste for insurance purposes.
Courts have ruled that off the sides of pistes can't be treated as off piste because the skier could be there due to loss of control on the piste. And I suspect an awful lot of injuries etc are people just off the sides rather than well off the beaten track. So plausibly more are including off piste because it is cheaper to include it than argue with people about whether they 'just lost control and went over the side' or were intentionally skiing off piste.
It wouldn't surprise me if there are other similar issues still out there (for example, insurers covering ski touring but not ski mountaineering with no definition as to what the difference is...)
(Something I appreciate about Lloyd's back when I had it through work; Rather than having touring vs mountaineering with no definition they had 2 limits - nothing using ropes/harnesses and nothing above 4000 m IIRC (might have been 5000; While annoying as it didn't cover being roped for touring on glacier so I had to find an alternative, it is a clear distinction rather than arguing the toss in court/discovering you aren't covered after the fact...)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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To clarify - the Nationwide policy only covers off-piste with a qualified guide.
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| Blast wrote: |
@Layne
You say "CN or other nation equivalent" but I'm struggling to find clarity on the equivalents.
Austria - I there is a lift pass add-on there? I don't think so - hence Austrian Alpine Club membership needed or will they rescue from on piste or off piste regardless?
And what about Italy?
I don't go Switzerland as I hear its expensive though this reputation might be exaggerated. |
I haven't skied outside of France for some time.
From what I recall AAC is an option for Austria.
My understanding is that in Italy the rules about off piste vary from province to province and in some it is forbidden.
But others may know better as regular visitors obviously.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Last time I got back country cover it was based around altitude and equipment being used. I could see why they would do it like that but they tried to charge me more because I said I would be carrying crampons and an axe. Their logic being I was doing something more risky, my logic being I was reducing their risk. They backed down in the end.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Blast wrote: |
| To clarify - the Nationwide policy only covers off-piste with a qualified guide. |
Ah thank you for pointing this out, I would have actually gone of piste this year a bit without knowing this, potentially resulting in a big bill! I'll check if the Lloyds still covers without guide as my Wife's insurance covers me when we travel together.
Also, agree with others here that the best insurance is specialist insurance, I just don't do it enough to justify the extra cover provided beyond my Banks insurance.
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You are in similar position to me.
I'm 1) mainly on piste 2)will go off piste with a guide once or twice and 3) will dabble off piste on side of the pistes for practice.
It is really irritating that Nationwide cover 1 and 2 but not 3.
If in France the Carre Neige lift pass top-up is the answer but I can't find out if there is an alternative to this in Austria (by way of lift pass upgrade rather than having to take yearly membership with Austrian Alpine Club).
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You know it makes sense.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
I’m not going to suggest that anyone bins their beep after 3 years, but it is worth checking it from time to time, and keeping an eye on the newer models. I have a BCA Tracker 2 that was serviced for free a couple of years ago when it was sent in for a firmware update. It came back with a report that said it was fully functioning, but at 93% (or something). I have since retired it to a spare and now use the Mammut Barryvox (2022), which I took on an avi course last season. It was interesting to see the differences in search times between a) those who were using borrowed transceivers and those who had their own and were more familiar with them and b) those who had older vs newer models. The newer tech was incredibly fast during the search, and the interfaces were also much more intuitive.
And to those who still have ancient 2-antenna transceivers: put them in the bin and get your wallet out  |
I've had my Ortovox Zoom+ (I think that's the model) for some time now. I've rarely ever used it until my mountain safety exam last season. It wasn't the oldest transceiver there, but it was the 2nd oldest!
It was noticeably more difficult to use compared to the others who had flagging systems on the newer devices. I'll probably upgrade it this season, as I need to buy the Mrs all the avalanche gear as well, so seems like a good time to get myself a new one.
Multiple burials were particularly difficult with my device, as I had to get away from the 1st signal enough, in order to pick up a different signal, whereas just pressing the flagging button would save probably a couple of minutes trying to find the new signal.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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One important point re insurance and AAC membership;
I suspect for a lot of people in the UK you should be adding the (cheap) per trip top up cover as the base membership medical cover is very limited - €10k iirc; (Remember, if you are injured off piste and your travel insurance doesn't cover off piste then it isn't just rescue they can refuse to pay out on... Fairly easy for a hospital to eat through 10k in a couple of days if you are seriously injured...)
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Blast, as mentioned above plenty of threads on suitable insurance to cover off-piste without a guide. I personally use SCGB Insurance and it covers off-piste skiing without a guide, it will be pretty rare that I will do this though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| swskier wrote: |
| ... I've had my [...] for some time now. I've rarely ever used it until my mountain safety exam last season. It wasn't the oldest transceiver there, but it was the 2nd oldest! It was noticeably more difficult to use compared to the others who had flagging systems on the newer devices. .. |
Bearing in mind previous points about any manufacturers' recommendations regarding "servicing" (which as an amateur but regular I'll probably ignore unless I'm at the factory or with someone able to do the thing there and then...
I'd not want to have a device which was easily beaten by other devices in training. To me that's not bad as a test. I do know how to use the [simple] "flag" thing for multiple burials, but I'd not worry about that: if you're the person with a dumb device, just dig the first one out whilst everyone else looks for the next one. Then turn their device off one you get to it...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I was just re-reading my transceiver manual and was reminded that the "group check" function actually monitors transmit power also.
Normally people just wave the transceiver until it beeps, but if you look at the screen at the same time,
you can compare the measured distance with the actual distance (usually about 1m) and see how accurate it is.
Too much variance, and the sender is likely faulty.
I'm not suggesting that's a replacement for a full service, just that it's worth looking at the display when doing a group check.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Regarding insurance, @Wendyjh & I get ours as part of/the main reason for membership of SCGB. It specifically includes off-piste skiing with/without a guide f paid up in full when I broke my shoulder off-piste without a guide necessitating a blood wagon, ambulance to the medical centre & taxi to the chalet. It covered x-rays, drugs, sling & anything else I may have forgotten.
We had a slight problem in that it was Saturday lunchtime so the work experience kid answered the phone & wanted me not to pay with a credit card but wait for authorisation - as if! - so I took the executive decision to just pay & argue when I got home. It’s what credit cards are for & the insurance eventually agreed with me.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It’s gone up a lot this year so now insured with MPI.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Blast wrote: |
"Like most electronics, the functionality of avalanche transceivers can waver and deteriorate over time. That’s why it’s a good idea to replace your transceiver every three to four years." |
our family beepers are 6 years old. At the start of every season a beeper should be tested for its distance. starting 50m away in recieve and walk in to one on send. all our beepers pick up the signal over 40m.
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[quote="Layne"]
From what I recall AAC is an option for Austria.
My understanding is that in Italy the rules about off piste vary from province to province and in some it is forbidden.
/quote]
AAC covers the whole of Europe to include MTB in the summer
only the piedmonte in Italy is it law beyond the piste markers you need avi kit. there are officials out and about to catch and fine you
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