 Poster: A snowHead
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We never had any problem with our own diesel car but we always filled up locally - and after the first year we had a covered garage space.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| RobinS wrote: |
@Richard_Sideways, I have been driving diesels for several decades now, and while I did have a few minor issues before I knew "winter diesel" existed it has been nothing like as problematic as you claim.
First ever ski trip we drove to Livigno (possibly the coldest resort in the Alps), parked up the Mondeo TDCI with a quarter tank of normal diesel thinking we would fill up when we set off home. A week later, car temperature showed -24. Took two turns of the key to start it, then had to sit with my foot on the throttle for ten minutes to keep it going while it belched black smoke, after ten minutes it was fine. |
The formulation of modern diesel changes fairly regularly since the noughties, which is why it doesn't smell like sulphur nearly as much as it used to, and most modern diesels don't burp out huge plumes of black smoke* like they used to is because the fuel itself is much cleaner than it used to be. Modern diesel has a much higher paraffin content, hence the need for 'winterised' versions which contain a specific anti-gelling agent.
* there's a 'thing' - mainly in the US and Canada - called 'Smoking' which certain people of a particular mindset like to do, where you inject raw diesel into the intake of your turbo manifold which will cause a huge plume of thick black smoke to be emitted from the vehicle, and is done to show off but mainly to annoy environmentalists.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi
We are driving down to Serre Chevalier on the 22nd January. Car is a diesel with 4wd, winter tyres and a set of chains in the boot. We brim the car in the UK before leaving and then refuel in the Alps so we have the diesel with the additives for the cold temps. I always book an indoor car parking space - means the car is not sitting outside for a week in the really cold temps, no snow clearing required when we leave and also less likely to be pranged by someone sliding around in their car. Peace of mind really.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Good idea, @Griggs, but indoor car parking spaces are by no means available everywhere, especially in smaller resorts.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
* there's a 'thing' - mainly in the US and Canada - called 'Smoking' which certain people of a particular mindset like to do, where you inject raw diesel into the intake of your turbo manifold which will cause a huge plume of thick black smoke to be emitted from the vehicle, and is done to show off but mainly to annoy environmentalists. |
Rolling Coal, I believe.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Pam_W Point well made. If you can find a covered car park it has certainly made the whole experience of having my own car in resort less stressful. Park up and essentially you don’t have to worry about it. We usually go with Club Med and they have car parks under their buildings so I do appreciate this makes it easier.
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Another tip - if car is parked outside and it's likely to snow overnight, and you think you might need chains, put them on the night before. I did this one night for a 6am departure for Geneva airport - long before the first snowplough would be up our road. It took me the best part of an hour to dig the car out. It was parked in a tight row and, as a rookie snow-clearer, I was shocked to realise I couldn't just chuck the snow in front of my neighbour's cars, but had to carry each shovel full to the other side of the road. But at least I knew the chains were on!
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| You don't need deep winter temps to start being affected. Regular diesel will start to cloud at around freezing point as the paraffin content starts to set. This won't stop you driving but it will impact the mileage you get, and mess with your range. Once regular hits about -8 it'll be too slushy to be pumped effectively enough to flow through the lines properly. |
That was more problematic in the past (pre-ish Yr2000) with systems likely to have consequencial flow issues. Most now use a flow round system that pumps from tank to engine and then surplus returned to tank to go round again. This has the effect of heating the fuel (some use coolers because of this) but does mean that once its started it should be able to sustain entirely workable viscosity to avoid further trouble.
Some of the system will also loop warm fuel around in truncated route to more quickly bring the engine bay filter assembly up to temperature to facilitate this.
They also self bleed by turning on ignition and waiting to establish flow loop if the vehicle has been run out of fuel, unlike some in the past that service people had a devil of a job to get going.
If anyone does have problem starting and needs assistance, then let it thoroughly warm when going to bring all the different elements up to temp.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| denfinella wrote: |
| This time I'll be at 1,000 metres, so not particularly high, but could still be below -10°C.) |
Can't see that being an issue tbh. We drive a diesel in the UK and to the Alps without issue. Would have to be something fairly extreme.
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Leave the wiper up only when it’s near freezing temperature. No need for just regular snowy days.
But do not leave the wiper up when high wind is predicted. It can rip the wiper off. Or sometimes blown debris to wrap on the standing wiper and then damage the wiper arm.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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And those who ignore the rules and park on the street will sometimes find a wall of very hard ploughed snow outside their car. 
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One thing I noticed here for the first time in the recent cold snap: the retracting mirrors on our latest car didn't want to un-retract. Thinking of fitting some sort of sleeve over them, next time.
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You know it makes sense.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Cacciatore, round here in winter it's labelled -30.. |
There are -30 options for pre-mix here too….but it’s effin eye-watering when the vapour gets sucked into the vents
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Taking the diesel to Les Men in a couple of weeks. Overnight temps are below zero at the moment, and later this week into the minus double figures.
Am I right in saying that a neat mix of windscreen washer fluid and stopping at a petrol station near the mountains to fill up with "winter" diesel should be adequate? Car will be parked up for the week outside.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Fridge03, yes, IME - we've driving a diesel to the mountains and leaving it outdoors for a week twice a year for ~ 12 years (usually late Dec and early April).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've never really thought about cold-weather diesel, and it's certainly not something that I've seen advertised either in France or Switzerland. I'm relatively new to diesels, but with four and a half winters' use of my landy (TD5) in all weathers I kinda feel I might have noticed if there were any issues with the fuel. It's most often filled up in Chatel, but many times in Alsace too and occasionally at Swiss stations.
So my conclusion is that either all of them stock this low-temperature stuff or none of them do, and it's just never been an issue for me. I mean, it's pretty rare that it gets below -20 or so, but it's probably below -10 for a good twenty or thirty days each winter, so surely I'd have noticed?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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This article talks about the progressive thickening at different temps and the use of summer/winter grade fuel (even in the UK). Meanwhile this article which is 5 years old quotes RAC "This should not occur as all diesel produced for UK winter use is formulated with additives to prevent waxing. In addition, modern diesel vehicles are fitted with heating elements on the fuel delivery lines to prevent waxing occurring." suggesting problems are probably more limited than they once were.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Some of the newer diesel's are pushing the fuel into direct injection at 900 bar pressure too, that'll have no problem squeezing raw vegetables down the lines 
Many of these current systems have developed to mitigate most problems seen in general use years ago.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Here’s my inventory for when we self-drive to the Alps
French motorway toll tag
Screenwash concentrate at -20C right to the jets
Screenwash concentrate bottle & water bottle**
Extending snow brush (loads on Amazon)
Ice scraper
External windscreen cover (doubles as sunshade in summer)*
Collapsible spade
Snow chains
Carpet square to kneel on + thin gloves for chains
Separate to your driving shoes, boots for going outside in the snow/slush
Head torch
Gummi Pflege window rubber, especially in a soft-top where windows drop to open door (addendum thanks to @Raceplate)
Emergency food + drink pack + warmers
Emergency foil blankets
5L ‘Explosafe’ fuel can (with fuel in it, obviously - this is allowed by Eurotunnel)
Gilets jaunes for each person
Crit’Air certificate
UK sticker
V5C Registration Certificate
Certificate of Insurance
*Fit the cover over the wipers and air intake at the base of the windscreen. Much easier to brush the snow away from around the wipers.
** You any not be near a water supply when your screenwash runs out.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 17-01-23 13:24; edited 2 times in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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What I've found useful in the past, when leaving a car parked outside a resort for a week (subject to subzero temperatures), is to have a second, fully charged battery inside the vehicle - and jump leads. Sometimes, it helps to have that extra power on hand for an engine that doesn't really want to start.
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I used to get my battery tested before going to the Alps in the winter.
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| Quote: |
I recall trucks stick beside the northerly A9 in Scotland with bonfires under their tanks
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I had heard of truckers lightning fires under the engine but wondered if it was an urban myth... 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
Don't think anyone has mentioned a must-have bit of equipment, and no not my Orange wellies but they too are damn good; but a telescopic pole with a scraper on one end and a wiper on the other about 25cm wide, the scraper is triangular and has three different edges to it depending on the severity of the freeze.
The length of the pole allows you to tackle most of the windscreen without having to walk around to the other side etc and clean the snow off the roof.
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In young people’s language this is called a selfie stick.
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The one thing I haven't seen anyone mention on this thread is Gummi Pflege for the door and boot seals. If you're leaving your car outside at -20c, there's every chance the doors and/or boot won't open because the door seals have frozen to the frames. Especially if it's an older car that is always kept outside and maybe got a bit of residual damp in it from too many short winter shopping trips. If your car's got frameless windows where the glass just butts up against a rubber seal on the body, it's worse - they can become hard to open at anything below zero. Bit of a problem if your de-icer etc. is inside the car!
I've had my previous car freeze shut in a very cold season before I knew about this stuff, it definitely works but is generally hard to find at a sensible price. Amazon now have it at £15/bottle which is a bit stiff but you can get it cheaper from Ireland https://www.micksgarage.com/d/dash-rubber-and-plastics/products/2517984/gummi-pflege-stift-100ml You're supposed to wipe it on the seals every 3-4 months but I just use it in winter and everything opens beautifully first time. Anecdotal evidence says it also makes the car quieter by making the seals more supple to better seal the gaps that cause wind noise.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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-15 isn't cold, we get -30c and below every winter. Modern cars work just fine.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Raceplate wrote: |
The one thing I haven't seen anyone mention on this thread is Gummi Pflege for the door and boot seals. If you're leaving your car outside at -20c, there's every chance the doors and/or boot won't open because the door seals have frozen to the frames. Especially if it's an older car that is always kept outside and maybe got a bit of residual damp in it from too many short winter shopping trips. If your car's got frameless windows where the glass just butts up against a rubber seal on the body, it's worse - they can become hard to open at anything below zero. Bit of a problem if your de-icer etc. is inside the car!
I've had my previous car freeze shut in a very cold season before I knew about this stuff, it definitely works but is generally hard to find at a sensible price. Amazon now have it at £15/bottle which is a bit stiff but you can get it cheaper from Ireland https://www.micksgarage.com/d/dash-rubber-and-plastics/products/2517984/gummi-pflege-stift-100ml You're supposed to wipe it on the seals every 3-4 months but I just use it in winter and everything opens beautifully first time. Anecdotal evidence says it also makes the car quieter by making the seals more supple to better seal the gaps that cause wind noise. |
Silicone based lubricants / polishes do the same thing, at a push vaseline can also be used.
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
| I had heard of truckers lightning fires under the engine but wondered if it was an urban myth... |
Nope seen it done.
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You know it makes sense.
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There are additives for diesel to help prevent it clogging
https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/service/everything-that-moves-you/cold-spell-protect-your-diesel-from-freezing.html
In Austria they put stuff in the diesel to stop it clogging but the cheap petrol stations put less in so fill up at a big name garage (BP, Jet etc) not at the super budget ones. (This advice came from the very nice man from the AA equivalent in Austria after a friends diesel car wouldn't start. Happened in 2015 when the car was brand new.). Fill up before the end of your journey so the treated diesel gets all the way through your fuel system.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If you have an old diesel car it might be worth getting the injectors checked, especially the heaters.
In really cold weather I used to turn the ignition to the first stage (this activates the injector heaters) then turn it back without starting the engine. I did this a couple of times to get the injectors warm before trying to turn the ignition. If the car runs a bit lumpy straight after starting in the cold but OK once it is warm then this could indicate a failed diesel injection heater.
Many people just turn the key all the way round to start the engine, but you should turn it to the first stage wait for the signal (look at the cars handbook - normally a light on the dashboard) before turning the ignition fully.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Tue 17-01-23 8:25; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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If using your own car to travel a long distance to the resort then don't leave your car stood in the cold all week. Take it for a bit of a run to charge the battery and get the engine warm (especially during the last couple of days of your holiday).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Chris_n wrote: |
| Raceplate wrote: |
The one thing I haven't seen anyone mention on this thread is Gummi Pflege for the door and boot seals. If you're leaving your car outside at -20c, there's every chance the doors and/or boot won't open because the door seals have frozen to the frames. Especially if it's an older car that is always kept outside and maybe got a bit of residual damp in it from too many short winter shopping trips. If your car's got frameless windows where the glass just butts up against a rubber seal on the body, it's worse - they can become hard to open at anything below zero. Bit of a problem if your de-icer etc. is inside the car!
I've had my previous car freeze shut in a very cold season before I knew about this stuff, it definitely works but is generally hard to find at a sensible price. Amazon now have it at £15/bottle which is a bit stiff but you can get it cheaper from Ireland https://www.micksgarage.com/d/dash-rubber-and-plastics/products/2517984/gummi-pflege-stift-100ml You're supposed to wipe it on the seals every 3-4 months but I just use it in winter and everything opens beautifully first time. Anecdotal evidence says it also makes the car quieter by making the seals more supple to better seal the gaps that cause wind noise. |
Silicone based lubricants / polishes do the same thing, at a push vaseline can also be used. |
That's used, or advised for the folding roof type cabriolet fitted cars as they can't stop them creaking
As noted, its basically silicone lubricant distributed in a carrier liquid (ethanol, methyl mix with limonene scent to disguise, from msds data) you can use silicone grease from plumbing supplies sold in little pots for plastic push fit plumbing systems.
I use the grease or straight silicone oil on window tracks to prevent water ingress, keep smooth sliding etc they don’t then stick in winter and slide like new even after many years.
Lock barrels (if your car is old enough to still use them) purge with silicone oil for the same, stops water collecting and freezing.
Theres another side to keeping windows sliding too. Many use a cable matrix to winch the window pane up and down, running around fixed plastic blocks to provide geometry, if glass is frozen in track this can snap the cable guides in freezing weather, leaving you with a open window.
Also make sure you switch the wipers off when you park, else they try to move when covered in snow as you start it. There's a limit to just how much strain they can take.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@ski3, and even if the wipers move, you’re then scraping them over ice … not ideal.
Disagree @abc about not lifting them for any reason above. Even absent precipitation frost can stick them to the glass. And wind that can damage them will be doing more damage elsewhere!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| DB wrote: |
| If using your own car to travel a long distance to the resort then don't leave your car stood in the cold all week. Take it for a bit of a run to charge the battery and get the engine warm (especially during the last couple of days of your holiday). |
Definitely a good idea, especially if you want to check it Friday when leaving on a Saturday (it's much easier to get help from garages on Friday than Saturday in many places) also a coincidental help, if you have a usb charger/adapter for cigarette lighter with digital voltage reading, this can at least give you battery condition (not ordinarily displayed on most cars) with 12.4volts minimum resting voltage and approximately 13.9 volts while running and charging from alternator.
Any less than 12.1 volts (while not running engine) and you're likely going nowhere.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| Another tip - if car is parked outside and it's likely to snow overnight, and you think you might need chains, put them on the night before |
Great tip @pam w
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| DB wrote: |
There are additives for diesel to help prevent it clogging
https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/service/everything-that-moves-you/cold-spell-protect-your-diesel-from-freezing.html
In Austria they put stuff in the diesel to stop it clogging but the cheap petrol stations put less in so fill up at a big name garage (BP, Jet etc) not at the super budget ones. (This advice came from the very nice man from the AA equivalent in Austria after a friends diesel car wouldn't start. Happened in 2015 when the car was brand new.). Fill up before the end of your journey so the treated diesel gets all the way through your fuel system. |
Good advice! I was also advised by a local to do the same thing - avoid budget garages and go for the bigger names.
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The Lidl screen wash around us in Autria is rated down to -60C. Using the local diesel my outdoors parked car has been fine for starting at around -15C.
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If you have a BMW be aware that certain models are notorious for 'gunking'-up of the screen washer system if you mix solutions using BMW concentrate and 3rd.-party concentrates. This is why I take a 1L bottle of BMW winter concentrate with me. It's down to the design of the individual system so many people will report they've had no issues, while there's a substantial body of owner forum feedback reporting it on specific models. BMW concentrate looks pricey, but it's more concentrated, so diluting it to the same temperature only costs about £10-£12/year more than Halfords or petrol station stuff, which seems worth it to avoid any issues.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Raceplate wrote: |
The one thing I haven't seen anyone mention on this thread is Gummi Pflege for the door and boot seals. If you're leaving your car outside at -20c, there's every chance the doors and/or boot won't open because the door seals have frozen to the frames. Especially if it's an older car that is always kept outside and maybe got a bit of residual damp in it from too many short winter shopping trips. If your car's got frameless windows where the glass just butts up against a rubber seal on the body, it's worse - they can become hard to open at anything below zero. Bit of a problem if your de-icer etc. is inside the car!
I've had my previous car freeze shut in a very cold season before I knew about this stuff, it definitely works but is generally hard to find at a sensible price. Amazon now have it at £15/bottle which is a bit stiff but you can get it cheaper from Ireland https://www.micksgarage.com/d/dash-rubber-and-plastics/products/2517984/gummi-pflege-stift-100ml You're supposed to wipe it on the seals every 3-4 months but I just use it in winter and everything opens beautifully first time. Anecdotal evidence says it also makes the car quieter by making the seals more supple to better seal the gaps that cause wind noise. |
Thanks. Ordered.
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| LaForet wrote: |
| If you have a BMW be aware that certain models are notorious for 'gunking'-up of the screen washer system if you mix solutions using BMW concentrate and 3rd.-party concentrates. |
I never had a problem with third party screen wash until the car went to BMW for a service and they topped up the screen wash. 
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FAQ
