 Poster: A snowHead
|
| biddpyat wrote: |
| Thanks @JohnMo, and@pisteoff, sad to hear the iteneries won't be open, but it makes sense. In that case I will treat the trip like any other ski trip, and make sure I time the lift back to the Italian side correctly. May do mornings in Zermatt and after lunch on the cervina side. We ski quite fast, and prefer the steeper slopes, so we will be marking out where we want to go. I am looking forward to the new Olympic run. Off piste We do a bit, but not enough experience to hire a guide, so the itineries would have suited, but I know there are safe areas between pistes that we can potter about on, on the Cervina side. |
The other itineraries will open as and when there is sufficient snow. It is only those served by the Rote Nasa lift that don’t open until first week of February(although many people walk over there and ski them as an off piste route before then - not recommend unless you are sufficiently mountain savvy).
By the Olympic run, do you mean the new World Cup course? Until mid-December you can only ski that with a guide and it is CHF105. I don’t know what they intend to do with the course after that - stop grooming it and take away the markers I guess. Most of it is on glacier so crevasses could reappear once they stop grooming.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| pisteoff wrote: |
| @biddpyat, In a normal season a few of the itineraries on the Zermatt side will be open end Jan. Think Rote Nase (Trifti) can open before Feb if conditions are right, (there is a new lift going on - not sure of timing on that - anyone know?) but you can access some of the same / similar off piste off the top of Hohtali. Needs snow though else lots of rock hoping. There are options which certainly qualify as steep. |
The new lift is going from Hohtällli right over to Stockhorn (where the old drag lift used to go). So it will make that area even better. They have announced the lift but have not committed to any timing. The big project has been the Alpine Crossing. I suspect other projects like the Stockhorn lift will get kick started once the Alpine Crossing is open next summer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| twoodwar wrote: |
| @Langerzug, glad you’re laughing. Not just my opinion but many others. @biddpyat, Try Chez Vroney, Findlerhof, Blattern for starters. Where’s better on the mountain @Langerzug, ? Name names. |
Don’t forget Zum See!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Indeed, or Fluhalp! Too many top notch places really!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@JohnMo, yes it was indeed the world cup run, I was referring to, fiddlesticks we will be too late for that. I hadn't thought about the glacier aspect.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@biddpyat, wise decision
ah, @BobinCH, best alpine restaurants are not best restaurants in the world. (and best restaurants according to anglo-saxons are definitely not the best in the world) and no I'm not used to the Valluga cable car. I ski Lech, not St.Anton. Strange comment anyway. Wouldn't you rather stick to commenting on Verbier?
And that highest cablecar leads to a very boring glacier...It's mainly built for Asians coming in summer, which is after all the best time to come to Zermatt.
@iainm Zermatt is iconic, but not for its skiing. And that longest piste starts with many kilometers of ultra-flat glacier were you need to pray the wind is in the right direction to move forwards. (And while that might sound funny, it is reality) The mid section is nothing special and the lower section often icy and narrow.
Zermatt is very inner-alpine and hence very dry climate (nice and sunny yes), but limited snow, hence icy. This is also a matter of attention when expecting to ski the routes at Stockhorn/Hohtali. They stay closed often due to lack of snow, and not just in early season (as discussed above)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
What is it with this type of thread and discussion on restaurants? In my experience v few want to focus on lunch (vs the skiing), most want a spag bol or equivalent which really is not that different place to place, and it is very expensive in Zermatt (not to mention the 'waste' of hours of a very expensive lift pass)
On the Gnarllii bash last year we took a group over to for a lovely day in Zermatt (starting from Cervinia, better connected than VT btw) and we had a lovely lunch - picnic next to Fluhalp - great views, bit of music in background and just a gorgeous spot. Cramming into the Fluhalp (if we had booked first thing in the morning) would not have been so enjoyable, and we would have lost ski time.
(ps I have taken groups for lunch at all the places mentioned in this thread. Fluhalp is my favourite for location, live music and reasonable prices)
How many skiers here really want to go searching for restaurants over skiing? Perhaps one special lunch in a holiday week - but more than that? Don't we ski for the skiing?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lunch is least important to us @pisteoff, I hate the idea of booking a table. We only have maybe a glass of beer, and a pizza or a plate of chips, and the odd time we picnic , but skiing wherever the piste takes us dictates more of the trip than skiing a piste to get to a specific place to eat.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@pisteoff, @biddpyat, the beauty of a holiday is you do what you want. Getting older, mid 60s and still getting first lift up, (ish) we ski till late lunch circa 2pm then have a great lunch and pretty much ski home. That’s what floats our boat. We don’t have a large meal in the evening, so lunch is the main focus. Each to their own for maximum enjoyment, and I’m now knackered by 2pm, so it’s also pretty sensible for us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pisteoff wrote: |
How many skiers here really want to go searching for restaurants over skiing? Perhaps one special lunch in a holiday week - but more than that? Don't we ski for the skiing? |
Over many years of leading skiers as a ski club leader, an instructor and now a chalet owner/host I would say no, "we" don't all ski for the skiing. Trying to find a good balance for a larger more disparate group is more difficult so would often tend more towards the "one decent long lunch a week" idea, but then there are many like @twoodwar, who like to ski through the lunchtime rush, have a decent late lunch and then ski home, maybe topping up the beer levels at the last restaurant on the piste home.
Yes, I think that most people prioritise the skiing, but if you can give quality, the quantity isn't so important. Getting a great morning's skiing, knowing that you're able to give it all and then relax later, can allow that quality over quantity, whereas for some people skiing until the last lift makes the whole day into something of a chore and can kill the fun aspects entirely.
Of course the best days are those when you ski long and hard, tons of powder, decent long lunch, loadsa booze, still more serious off-piste on the way home and then party all night in your ski boots. 
Well, it's happened at least once or twice that I can remember 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@pisteoff, I know several people who’s main skiing objective is to make it to lunch
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@biddpyat, I have never heard anyone talk about Zermatt like Langerzug does. Much like many sports where scores are decided by discounting the top and bottom scores, it may be wise to do so here...
Like many, I've stayed in both the Zermatt and Cervinia side multiple times. For me, the Zermatt side is a miles better for all round holiday, to include just the skiing alone. It's a bucket list sort of place. Of course it does depend on exactly what you are after. If the food and town and views are not relevant to you then Zermatt should not be on your bucket list IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oh I'm definatly going, I was just faffing about with whether it was better to stay in Tasch, and the Zermatt side. I think Ill stay on the Italian side, and ski over in the mornings. We rise early so first lifts are not a problem for us, ski till about 3 and then head back to Cervina side, the whole area seems to have something for everyone, so I'm sure we will be happy enough. I like to eat, but it's more for food than the experience, but like someone said a beer before the last run home is always a welcome one. ( and at the end of the run)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Langerzug wrote: |
ah, @BobinCH, best alpine restaurants are not best restaurants in the world. (and best restaurants according to anglo-saxons are definitely not the best in the world) and no I'm not used to the Valluga cable car. I ski Lech, not St.Anton. Strange comment anyway. Wouldn't you rather stick to commenting on Verbier?
And that highest cablecar leads to a very boring glacier...It's mainly built for Asians coming in summer, which is after all the best time to come to Zermatt. |
Don’t be a pedant - it was obvious he was talking about mountain restaurants.
I made no comment on the glacier skiing - simply that the journey from Zermatt up to the Klein Matterhorn is state of the art. The opposite of what you alleged.
But while we’re on the skiing that lift opens 2 of the longest runs in the alps on both the Swiss and Italian sides in some cracking scenery as well as the stunning off piste glacier routes straight down the Theodulglacier and via the Schwarztor and that’s not even starting on the touring routes into the Monte Rosa. I certainly wasn’t bored
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| biddpyat wrote: |
| Oh I'm definatly going, I was just faffing about with whether it was better to stay in Tasch, and the Zermatt side. I think Ill stay on the Italian side, and ski over in the mornings. We rise early so first lifts are not a problem for us, ski till about 3 and then head back to Cervina side, the whole area seems to have something for everyone, so I'm sure we will be happy enough. I like to eat, but it's more for food than the experience, but like someone said a beer before the last run home is always a welcome one. ( and at the end of the run) |
There is a cracking restaurant on the Cervinia side called Chalet Etoile. It’s famous and gets busy but is worth booking at least once during your trip. If the weather is good there is a nice sunny terrace. In bad weather there is a cosy dining room. We couldn’t get a booking on our last trip but on previous visits the Mediterranean fish soup and Osso Bucco we’re to die for! Bon appétit
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| BobinCH wrote: |
I made no comment on the glacier skiing - simply that the journey from Zermatt up to the Klein Matterhorn is state of the art. The opposite of what you alleged.
|
No, I was talking about too many cable cars in general. Don't care if they're new or old. Getting out of ski's, waiting on the next one, queueing, long walks in huge stations, stairs, packed people in the lift, packed people everywhere. And the slow or unpleasant trains. So many that it becomes a nuisance. Not my idea of holiday, especially if pistes and tours are not first class either.
General point: Zermatt is a huge name, maybe the biggest in the Alps. But that name is based on other things than skiing. Zermatt is a must see, but the skiing is not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| pisteoff wrote: |
How many skiers here really want to go searching for restaurants over skiing? Perhaps one special lunch in a holiday week - but more than that? Don't we ski for the skiing? |
Over many years of leading skiers as a ski club leader, an instructor and now a chalet owner/host I would say no, "we" don't all ski for the skiing. Trying to find a good balance for a larger more disparate group is more difficult so would often tend more towards the "one decent long lunch a week" idea, but then there are many like @twoodwar, who like to ski through the lunchtime rush, have a decent late lunch and then ski home, maybe topping up the beer levels at the last restaurant on the piste home.
Yes, I think that most people prioritise the skiing, but if you can give quality, the quantity isn't so important. Getting a great morning's skiing, knowing that you're able to give it all and then relax later, can allow that quality over quantity, whereas for some people skiing until the last lift makes the whole day into something of a chore and can kill the fun aspects entirely.
Of course the best days are those when you ski long and hard, tons of powder, decent long lunch, loadsa booze, still more serious off-piste on the way home and then party all night in your ski boots.
Well, it's happened at least once or twice that I can remember |
I'm not sure how well a "tons of powder" morning, followed by "more serious off piste" in the afternoon would fit with a "decent long lunch." 
If it's a serious powder day the last thing I'd want is a long lunch break. Give me fresh tracks and a quick picnic every time, as I never know when my next powder turns will come  .
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@Langerzug, I appreciate your views on zermatt, and I tend to agree with you on the point of hanging around getting gondolas and cable cars, I usually will take two chairs to avoid a Gondola, and your points on Zermatt in General. This year we are flying into milan, so that area is suiting us, it was a choice between Madonna and Cervina/ Zermatt, and as we have done Madonna, ( and quite liked it when the girls were younger) and we had only had a two day white out experience in Cervina, we chose to explore the area this year. All information is always information and is always worth receiving. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@biddpyat, I applaud your tolerance in being polite to @Langerzug, but if you have been influenced by what she has said then you might want to think again. I would say it's quite a treck to go from Valtournenche to the far side of Zermatt, so even starting early you may not get there that early in the day. I suspect the quickest way may be a bus into Cervinia and then the Plan Maison to Theodulpass route (but maybe Cervinia experts would suggest another way), so not much better than the faff of the train from Tasch to Zermatt. But even that is a lot of uplift before you start skiing. In my view, the problem with Valtournenche is that you need to go up the mountain quite a way before you get to runs that will take you anywhere other than back down to Valtournenche
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Langerzug wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
I made no comment on the glacier skiing - simply that the journey from Zermatt up to the Klein Matterhorn is state of the art. The opposite of what you alleged.
|
No, I was talking about too many cable cars in general. Don't care if they're new or old. Getting out of ski's, waiting on the next one, queueing, long walks in huge stations, stairs, packed people in the lift, packed people everywhere. And the slow or unpleasant trains. So many that it becomes a nuisance. Not my idea of holiday, especially if pistes and tours are not first class either.
General point: Zermatt is a huge name, maybe the biggest in the Alps. But that name is based on other things than skiing. Zermatt is a must see, but the skiing is not. |
@langerzug When did you last ski in Zermatt?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It’s worth pointing out that the Matterhorn express is all seated, and the Klein Matterhorn cable car is all seated. Difficult to imagine how you ‘pack’ those out?
@biddpyat, if you have booked flights the Cervinia it is, the only logical side. It should be said that Zermatt itself is a magical place to be in. That can’t be achieved obviously by staying in Cervinia. I have stayed in both a number of times, and it is chalk and cheese as to the towns themselves. The journey from Geneva airport by train although nearly 4 hours I’d also the most stunning I have been on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@DCG, I think you are right, which is why I looked at the Tasch option. We will have a car, so perhaps driving to Cervina is a good idea, I do look forward to skiing both areas.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@snopicnicshere, I was wondering the same. For sure when I first went to Zermatt 20 years ago there was a succession of cable cars to take but now they are mostly only used as a backup. The Matterhorn Express and the Glacier Express are very modern, comfortable and quick and the only cable cars I use now are the occasional ones up to Rothorn (can be avoided) and from Gant up to the Gornergrat side - again, can be avoided.
I've been to Zermatt eight or nine times and it's just about my favourite resort
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@snopicnicshere, last time was 7 years ago. I'm aware they are very much working on the Matterhorn side, but whilst it improves thing, it still doesn't change much imo.
I just love to ski from my hotel to the early morning chairlift in the sun in Lech. And so on.
Or the Dolomites.
Better skiing, better landscape (yes, I prefer a mixture of rock and meadows, Zermatt is too icy/rocky for me, lacking in sweetness) better prices, better atmosphere, friendlier people, better snow (no need to stand/sit in a cable car up to 3900 m in February)......etc etc...
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@Langerzug, We get it, you don't like Zermatt. Enough already.
Fact is that it has an awful lot going for it; yes, some downsides too, but to bang on about one resort in particular that you prefer makes you seem a little... err... close-minded, perhaps?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| twoodwar wrote: |
It’s worth pointing out that the Matterhorn express is all seated, and the Klein Matterhorn cable car is all seated. Difficult to imagine how you ‘pack’ those out?
|
He doesn’t like it so noone should like it. Don’t you get it?
Stop quoting inconvenient facts - he is right and you are wrong. That’s all that matters!
The only answer is LECH goddamit! LECH I said!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Langerzug wrote: |
@snopicnicshere, last time was 7 years ago. I'm aware they are very much working on the Matterhorn side, but whilst it improves thing, it still doesn't change much imo.
I just love to ski from my hotel to the early morning chairlift in the sun in Lech. And so on.
Or the Dolomites.
Better skiing, better landscape (yes, I prefer a mixture of rock and meadows, Zermatt is too icy/rocky for me, lacking in sweetness) better prices, better atmosphere, friendlier people, better snow (no need to stand/sit in a cable car up to 3900 m in February)......etc etc... |
That’s the joy of choice, you can ski where you like so can everyone else. However, your opinion is only an opinion and not fact.
Zermatt is regularly rated as one of the finest ski resorts in the world. That isn't an opinion, that's a fact.
However, life would be boring if we all agreed....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@BobinCH,
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@BobinCH, your property is in Quatre Vallees is’nt? Which I mentioned in this thread that get higher rates for the skiing than Zermatt, among several others.
And I mentioned another personal favorite next to Lech, the Dolomites.
And comparing Zermatt with Lech is quite useful given their similar beloved status. At least many Swiss agree on that given the striking big number of Swiss cars in Lech
Anyway, I’m glad I was able to be helpful to the OP.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
@BobinCH, your property is in Quatre Vallees is’nt? Which I mentioned in this thread that get higher rates for the skiing than Zermatt, among several others.
And I mentioned another personal favorite next to Lech, the Dolomites.
And comparing Zermatt with Lech is quite useful given their similar beloved status. At least many Swiss agree on that given the striking big number of Swiss cars in Lech.
Anyway, I’m glad I was able to be helpful to the OP.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@twoodwar,
Agreed, have been skiing since circa 1986 all the Europcean classics plus 2 in Colordao and now I just ski in Zermatt. The standard of skiers is very high, the prices keep the crowds under control, except perhaps new years day. The standard of lifts are high, I dont have a problem with Sunnega apart from the tunnel walk at the bottom and standing at an angle. Zermatt is not the best in everything but the guests in the excellent little hotel I use have a lot of multi repeat customers, same week every year and they become international friends. That says a lot as far as I am concerned.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Sorry to jump in on the fiery debate.
As I understand the train from Tasch to Zermatt is included in the ski pass. But of course the ski pass only has validity from the the following day of arrival. Is there a way to avoid there train cost on arrival and departure to Zermatt? Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| viciousvulture wrote: |
Sorry to jump in on the fiery debate.
As I understand the train from Tasch to Zermatt is included in the ski pass. But of course the ski pass only has validity from the the following day of arrival. Is there a way to avoid there train cost on arrival and departure to Zermatt? Thanks |
It only costs 8 francs each way - that’s just the price of a beer in Zermatt.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| viciousvulture wrote: |
Sorry to jump in on the fiery debate.
As I understand the train from Tasch to Zermatt is included in the ski pass. But of course the ski pass only has validity from the the following day of arrival. Is there a way to avoid there train cost on arrival and departure to Zermatt? Thanks |
On arrival you won't be going to Zermatt at all, given that Tasch is the previous stop on the railway up. So you get off the train there (or drive and park) and get to your accommodation, then only need to ascend to Zermatt, with your lift pass, the following morning. Same in reverse for departure. So there's no need for a ticket on the arrival or departure day at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| telford_mike wrote: |
| It only costs 8 francs each way - that’s just the price of a beer in Zermatt. |
And 25% of the price for a Pizza Zermattiana
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| twoodwar wrote: |
| @biddpyat, probably the best ski resort views in the world, very good piste skiing, but just mileage of pistes, plenty of other excellent resorts are available. Try it and make your own mind up. |
Agreed. The resort itself is not worth a visit, unless you're loaded and fancy a new watch, but the views are unbeatable in places and there are some wonderful cruising red runs. I can fully understand why it makes the 'world's best ski resort' lists.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There is no such thing as ‘best ski resort views’ since that is a matter of taste.
Yes, the Matterhorn is unique and definitely a must see. But apart from that the valley is remarkably uninteresting and narrow.
In general the views are grand and impressive, rocks and ice, but not sweet and lovely.
And that’s why I prefer other Alpine regions, regions that have a mix of everything.
And better skiing. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
