 Poster: A snowHead
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
Very left field - or right field on the map - Turkey.
Big mountains, great snow, top people, loads of variety, wonderful food & drink, culture, closer to UK
Cheap as poo-poo. |
Sounds intriguing. What are the few top resorts?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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On Canada v USA, there is much more similarity between, say Whistler and Vail, than there is between Whistler and Fernie, so, if you want a change from before, you need to think about more than country. But I wouldn't go to Canada until they sort out what they're doing with COVID: they still require masks on flights and I wouldn't trust them not to introduce new restrictions this winter.
If you're going to the USA with a bunch of advanced skiers, there is only one answer: Jackson Hole.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| abc wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
Very left field - or right field on the map - Turkey.
Big mountains, great snow, top people, loads of variety, wonderful food & drink, culture, closer to UK
Cheap as poo-poo. |
Sounds intriguing. What are the few top resorts? |
Gudauri is the main one. Not been personally, but if it's anything like Kyrgyzstan you really need to like touring to really get the most out of it, as the resorts are a little limited in comparison to n America and Europe. Definitely some good options out there for some off the beaten path adventures and great experiences, but perhaps sacrificing on quality skiing a little.
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Gudauri is in Georgia not Turkey. From some epic Instagram reports there is some fantastic heli-skiing based out of Ayder in the Kackar mountains but I don’t know about resorts.
https://instagram.com/turkeyheliski?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Mike went somewhere in Turkey last year which must be what he’s on about.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I always say you can't beat Utah for the skiing. And now you can buy decent beer in the SLC area, that removes a big hurdle.
Among Altabird, Park City, Solitude, Brighton and Deer Valley, you've got more than enough to entertain you, and options depending on weather. That's 3 very big resorts and 3 big enough ones.
If money wasn't an object, I'd probably go for Jackson Hole/Grand Targhee but I understand that JH accommodations are through the roof...
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| Pasigal wrote: |
| I understand that JH accommodations are through the roof... |
It is true that JH and Big Sky always lead the league in lodging costs in that part of the world, but (breaking news) costs are up everywhere. My little vacation rental near Mt Bachelor is fetching rents 40% higher than the prior year. The nice part about SLC is that one has the entire spectrum of lodging to choose from, because it's a real city close to the mountains. Places like JH have the hostel and a Motel 6 in town, and palaces. Not much in the middle.
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| Pasigal wrote: |
| If money wasn't an object, I'd probably go for Jackson Hole/Grand Targhee but I understand that JH accommodations are through the roof... |
Of the major resorts in the US, Jackson Hole is one of the more affordable one. That’s thanks to the over-supply of lodging to house the summer visitors.
That said, all ski area lodging had gone way up in price. So Jackson probably gone up too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| abc wrote: |
| Pasigal wrote: |
| If money wasn't an object, I'd probably go for Jackson Hole/Grand Targhee but I understand that JH accommodations are through the roof... |
Of the major resorts in the US, Jackson Hole is one of the more affordable one. That’s thanks to the over-supply of lodging to house the summer visitors.
That said, all ski area lodging had gone way up in price. So Jackson probably gone up too. |
Hm. good to know. I've looked every now and then into staying in JH and the prices always put me off but tbh I haven't looked closely. That said, SLC is definitely more affordable.
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| Pasigal wrote: |
| Hm. good to know. I've looked every now and then into staying in JH and the prices always put me off but tbh I haven't looked closely. |
Depends on what you compare it to. To SLC, it’s pricy. But compare to Breckinridge or Winter Park, it’s probably a bit more affordable. Compare to Big Sky? It’s positively a bargain!
| Scooter in Seattle wrote: |
| Places like JH have the hostel and a Motel 6 in town, and palaces. Not much in the middle. |
Do you consider the 49’er (or Antler) Inn “palaces”?
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Mon 29-08-22 21:55; edited 2 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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In Jackson I can recommend the Antler Inn and the 49er place. Both great value and decent accommodation. Jackson town is something that has to be experienced.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Similar skiing. Colorado gets more snow but Utah snow is known to be the best in the states because it is the lightest. Utah is mostly Mormons and Colorado has a lot of weed heads.
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| skithesteelstealtheski wrote: |
| Similar skiing. Colorado gets more snow but Utah snow is known to be the best in the states because it is the lightest. Utah is mostly Mormons and Colorado has a lot of weed heads. |
As an Aussie I’ve no skin in the game to this argument but Little Cottonwood Canyon consistently gets more snow than any Colorado ski area.
http://bestsnow.net/
But I agree the skiing experience is similar. It would be hard to have a bad time in either of those two states.
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You know it makes sense.
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| abc wrote: |
| Pasigal wrote: |
| If money wasn't an object, I'd probably go for Jackson Hole/Grand Targhee but I understand that JH accommodations are through the roof... |
Of the major resorts in the US, Jackson Hole is one of the more affordable one. That’s thanks to the over-supply of lodging to house the summer visitors.
That said, all ski area lodging had gone way up in price. So Jackson probably gone up too. |
I just repriced a 10-day trip to the Lodge in JH that I took in Feb 2012. Per person (2 sharing) for the trip, the hotel has risen from £291 to £1,147 and the lift passes from £322 to £1,073. After adjusting for inflation, that's just shy of a three-fold increase.
At some point there will be a massive implosion in the ski industry as wealthy boomers retire to have their hips replaced and hearts triple-bypassed, and millennials spend their money on iGadgets and university tuition fees instead. I am afraid to say that the crash will be well-deserved. You can only lift someone's leg so many times.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Jonny Jones, “After adjusting for inflation”… did you also adjust for the value of pound vs dollar?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@abc, I didn't adjust for exchange rates; I was looking at things from the perspective of a UK-based skier, so I simply adjusted by the UK Consumer Prices Index (CPI). The real-terms trebling of price certainly explains the industry stats that show a huge decline in the number of British skiers skiing in the States in recent years. 10 years ago, I regularly used to advise other snowheads that skiing in the USA during UK holidays was cheaper than the Alps; that's definitely no longer true and, for the first time in 20 years, this year I refused to take my (now adult) kids to the USA for a ski trip on the grounds of cost - we're going to Italy instead.
Things are still pretty dire if you're based in the USA, though. Converting my GBP prices into USD on the two relevant dates and using US CPI, prices have almost exactly doubled in real terms (1.97x to be exact). It's worse than that for a family, though, because Jackson used to offer free skiing to under 14s with an adult in the pre-Ikon days.
I really do believe the ski industry is heading for trouble in the USA. It's been bouyed by a large number of then-young people who began skiing in the 1980s, and modern equipment, especially carver skis, have allowed even unfit people to continue skiing into their 60s or longer. The sport has a demographic ticking time-bomb, though, as the number of younger skiers is declining, and I suspect that price is a major factor - older skiers have swallowed higher prices as their incomes have risen due to career progression but young people are worse off in real terms than their parents were at their age.
Apologies if this is all a little off topic.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
@abc, I didn't adjust for exchange rates; I was looking at things from the perspective of a UK-based skier, so I simply adjusted by the UK Consumer Prices Index (CPI). The real-terms trebling of price certainly explains the industry stats that show a huge decline in the number of British skiers skiing in the States in recent years. 10 years ago, I regularly used to advise other snowheads that skiing in the USA during UK holidays was cheaper than the Alps; that's definitely no longer true and, for the first time in 20 years, this year I refused to take my (now adult) kids to the USA for a ski trip on the grounds of cost - we're going to Italy instead.
Things are still pretty dire if you're based in the USA, though. Converting my GBP prices into USD on the two relevant dates and using US CPI, prices have almost exactly doubled in real terms (1.97x to be exact). It's worse than that for a family, though, because Jackson used to offer free skiing to under 14s with an adult in the pre-Ikon days.
I really do believe the ski industry is heading for trouble in the USA. It's been bouyed by a large number of then-young people who began skiing in the 1980s, and modern equipment, especially carver skis, have allowed even unfit people to continue skiing into their 60s or longer. The sport has a demographic ticking time-bomb, though, as the number of younger skiers is declining, and I suspect that price is a major factor - older skiers have swallowed higher prices as their incomes have risen due to career progression but young people are worse off in real terms than their parents were at their age.
Apologies if this is all a little off topic. |
100%
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
I really do believe the ski industry is heading for trouble in the USA. It's been bouyed by a large number of then-young people who began skiing in the 1980s, and modern equipment, especially carver skis, have allowed even unfit people to continue skiing into their 60s or longer. The sport has a demographic ticking time-bomb, though, as the number of younger skiers is declining, and I suspect that price is a major factor - older skiers have swallowed higher prices as their incomes have risen due to career progression but young people are worse off in real terms than their parents were at their age.
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Supply and demands.
With so many boomers flocking to the mountains, why shouldn’t the ski resorts raise their prices? Mind you, the lift tickets only gotten expensive for the casual skiers. For regulars, it has either remain the same (single mountain season pass) or even declined significantly thanks to the mega pass.
The lodging price in Jackson in particular, is to a substantial degree due to the “free” skiing of all the Ikon pass holders! Supply had risen so much it drives the winter lodging cost to the same level as the summer cost.
This discussion may be a bit off topic. But it probably contributed to the motivation of why the family in the other thread opted to go to Europe instead of going to the Rockies. Depending on the ebb and flow of the economy, some years it’s more advantageous to ski in Europe, other years, North America.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Park City is the only Utah resort on the Epic Pass. Snowbasin was previously but has switched to the Ikon Pass.
Ikon Pass
Brighton, Solitude, Alta, Snowbird, Deer Valley, Snowbasin (was Epic last year)
So the Ikon Pass is the way to go. If you stay in SLC, you will be driving every day to ski. Absolute best case is 45 minutes: Alta/Snowbird (Little Cottonwood Canyon) or Brighton / Solitude (Big Cottonwood Canyon). Add traffic and weather and your looking at 1 1/2 to 2 hours most days, 3+ hours on snowy days, and can't get there at all when it dumps (roads often close for avy control as the lifts are spinning). As others have said Park City is an okay ski town. If you stay there Deer Valley is right there but not very good skiing. Or you could buy a Park City lift ticket for somewhere between $113 and $259 depending on how well you navigate the Epic web site.
Canada might be worth a closer look.
Canada Ikon resorts
Banff area: Sunshine Village, Lake Louise, Norquay
Then drive a bit and hit Panorama (just added to Ikon). Really, really good uncrowded mountain with 1200 m of vertical.
Then head west to Revelstoke or south to Red Mountain.
Yep, a bit of drivng but it sure is pretty.
Oh yeah, several other resorts not on Ikon but lift tickets somewhat reasonable ($100 - $125).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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My buddies and I are at an age where we are ticking boxes off a list. About 5 years ago we were in Japan when we met a friend of a friend. He had a really smart house right in the Big Sky resort which, after 3 of skiing with him, he offered to us free of charge. On the way home we decided our next adventure was to the US and BS in particular. (We never heard from him again, never responded to emails etc - I think it was bs from the BS guy). Getting to BS is tricky from Scotland. Fly to Denver then to Bozeman - but the timing of the Bozeman flights is crap, basically losing a day each way. I started to look at the map and realised the road from Denver to BS goes right through Jackson Hole and a plan started to form. Back in February this year 6 of us flew to Denver (we stayed overnight at the airport, all a little ‘tired’ after the flight) and at the crack of dawn we picked up our 2 big 4WDs and drove to Steamboat. We stayed at the Rabbit Ears motel. Cracking place, a little faded around the edges but very comfortable and nicely located for the town of SS and the ski bus to the mountain. Skied there for 3 days - hadn’t snowed for a while, little or no off piste and what there was was pretty scary. Limited to the piste you can basically ski the whole mountain in 1 to 2 days, good fun and the town of Steamboat Springs has a cool vibe. Restaurants, bars, live music etc. Next it was the drive to Big Sky. Up sharp in the morning and on the road. It was nearly 600 miles with the odd wee detour. I really enjoyed the journey. Through the bleak plains of Colorado, through the canyons of Wyoming, round Yellowstone - stuff, you wouldn’t see from the air. Small one horse towns for lunch, through potato country in Idaho.
In Big Sky we had rented a fairly plush house on VRBO. Right next to a 2 man chair which took us to the main base area. Big Sky is a very European type resort, terrain wise. There’s 3 or 4 valleys, really well connected, take days to explore it fully. It had snowed more on Montana, snowed heavily when we were there and conditions were fantastic. We were staying in the resort, apres etc pretty formulaic. Even the ‘actual’ town of Big Sky seems like it was built 10 years ago. We had the big house though, ordered in food 1 night, cooked ourselves 1 night. All good. I can really recommend Big Sky as a skiing destination, something for everyone, snow wise. Can be pricey, we skied to a really fancy hotel at the far end of the map. Stomped in with our boots on, shag pile carpets etc no problem, gad a coffee. I thought hmm I might bring my wife and grown up kids out here for a ‘big’ birthday. 3000 dollars a night to do it properly. I think not! After BS it was heading south back to Jackson Hole. It’s not too long a drive, maybe 4 hours and we stayed in the Wort Hotel. This place I can also highly recommend. Rooms were old fashioned in as much they are smaller than modern US hotel rooms, but very comfortable. Great bar in the place, decent American type food, great ski bus from the door, ski valet services, hard to beat. JH is obviously a chic town. More billionaires per square mile in Teton county than in any other county in the states, so there are expensive restaurants. We got a bit pissed watching Eve Muirhead winning the curling gold medal and not thinking too clearly we all ordered a $125 5oz wagu steak!! Cheaper places can be found!! Really enjoyed JH but you have to be a decent skier to get a lot of fun on the pistes. They hadn’t had as much snow as JH, it was a bit scraped in bits and our 2 poorest skiers (solid intermediates) were a bit freaked out.
Overall? Great trip, I really enjoyed the touring. Jet lag is hitting me harder as I get older and that spoiled the Steamboat Springs leg. It was expensive but we gambled during the depths of COVID so it was as cheap as it’s ever going to be (business class return from EDI via LHR £850 return!). The IKON pass worked well, only 4 of us bought them then we discovered we could take them up the mountain on discounted friends and family passes. Word of warning  ️ JH was so busy even with the Ikon pass you had to book your place on the mountain well in advance. They were fully booked when we realised. Ikon support was TOTALLY useless but once we proved to the good folks at JH how far we’d come, how far in advance we’d booked they thankfully accommodated us and displayed a great deal of class in so doing.
Going on a trip to the US is a wee bit different. Resorts are smaller, you tend not to be in the ‘old’ town or a fair distance from the slopes, they don’t like putting the barrier down on the chair lift (some don’t even have them). Skiing in Europe (in MY opinion) is in a different league so if it’s exceptional skiing you’re looking for it’s hard to beat our own back yard.
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Having not been to the USofA since an Epic Ski Gathering decades ago, I should probably have done a bit more research before booking flights and accommodation.
Frikkin lift pass prices take the absolute piss. It might be OK for people who will be making multiple trips to the areas over the course of a season (locals and keen septics from outside the immediate areas) but for international visitors its eye wateringly expensive.
And don't get me started on truck hire prices.....................
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@Mosha Marc, For my one trip to Utah, Alta passes were $24. Park City was dearer at $56 but that included being able to train with the local Masters group on the Eagle race area lift.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Mosha Marc, Sadly its going to be an expensive trip - car hire is crazy.
My mate who lives in Wyoming is paying $6 a gallon for gas where as it used to be $3 - usal living costs have increased similar.
Day rate lift tickets will be eye watering - really need a bit of planning and deciding where and how often you want to ski areas.
Where are you staying planning to ski ?
All this has made us to decide along with other factors not to be skiing this season 
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We went for Park City as it's meant to be the only "Ski Town" in the area.
We're there for two weeks so had hoped to do a bit of snow chasing, but also to try all the famous areas within an hours drive or so: Snowbird, Alta, Park City/Canyons, Powder Mountain, Solitude, Brighton etc.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Slightly off topic, but what's it like regarding alcohol consumption in the Mormon State these days? I remember us being in Moab a few years ago, touring and viewing some of the National Parks. We had eaten, and were enjoying beers at at a craft brewery/restaurant. At about 9-45pm the barman called last orders (for 10pm closing). I asked about getting some shots or shorts and mixers for the last shout. He informed me that they only had a beer license. If we wanted to drink liquor, we would have to make ourselves members of a drinking club. No big deal. There was one on the next block and IIRC the temp membership was $3. So off we went. I have often wondered if this varied county by county.
Apres in California was a little less complicated. But we were told on a couple of occasions about the "Pitcher Limit" per person. I don't they they quite understood European Apres.
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@GeorgeVII, Think Utah's pretty much the same still although the micrbrew scene has made getting real beer a lot easier. Don't really think much about it in the states but it is weird the number of different rules they have about booze depending on the state. In some you can only buy liquor in state run stores, in others the store has to be independent or a single location of a chain ( so only one Walmart in Colorado can sell spirits) so in practice you get a liquor store right next to every supermarket, in others any supermarket canbsell it.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Mosha Marc, the best plan in my view as you have an excellent base/place to explore from. And the driving is pretty easy (if you have a co-pilot) as I remember it. We did it this way and cherry picked from all the resorts you mention (plus Jackson Hole) depending on the conditions. Pow Mtn recommended.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Dave of the Marmottes, @Bones, Yes, many peculiarities. But this was quite specific to Utah. We were last in the 'States in 2017 for the Great American Solar Eclipse. A tour that started in Bozeman (via Dallas). Down into Wyoming, Eclipse viewing on the "centre line" in Casper. They put on great party, live music and a great choice of beers from all sorts of indie brewers. Down into Denver, to pick up the California Zephyr train for a trip over the Sierra Nevada (nr Donner Summit). Finishing up in San Fransisco with a few days down at Fishermans Wharf. The only issue there was the prices  .
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
Having not been to the USofA since an Epic Ski Gathering decades ago, I should probably have done a bit more research before booking flights and accommodation.
Frikkin lift pass prices take the absolute piss. It might be OK for people who will be making multiple trips to the areas over the course of a season (locals and keen septics from outside the immediate areas) but for international visitors its eye wateringly expensive.
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
We went for Park City as it's meant to be the only "Ski Town" in the area.
We're there for two weeks so had hoped to do a bit of snow chasing, but also to try all the famous areas within an hours drive or so: Snowbird, Alta, Park City/Canyons, Powder Mountain, Solitude, Brighton etc. |
It may feel odd. But given what you’re after and where you’re staying, you might be better off NOT skiing at Park City! Or at least put it on lower priority.
If you can indeed get over the idea, you may then look into the IKON pass. It’s only for sale for another few days (deadline December 1st)
It covers all the other mountains in the area EXCEPT Park City!
But…
If your gang are set to camp on Park City the mountain, then look into the lowest tier Epic pass. You may find it still cheaper than buying daily tickets.
You can potentially combine that with a Mountain Collective pass which covers the “other” mountains, plus Jackson, Targhee and Big Sky… for the foot itchy contingent in your group.
But you need to make up your mind in short order. All of the above passes are off sale within the next week.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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This thread got me thinking so I did a quick costing to fly LHR to Den stay a couple of nights in Denver then over to Breck for 4 nights. Fly JH and stay for 10 days rtn to LHR after 15 nights weds to thursday for about 2.5k without passes. This being last minute (for me anyways) I thought it not bad. I'm considering this for 2024 so would get it more reasonably priced but what passes to get and is Breck worth it for snowboarders? Will probably include riding Targee too. 49er inn came in at £800 for 10 nights.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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ok, I'll chime in ...
Grand Junction, CO right across the Utah border ...
no skiing but very cheap hotels ... and skiing all around to E,S, and W with a car (I-70), bus, Amtrak rail, airport hub
east from GJT are peach groves and then Glenwood Springs to Aspen ... farther to Eagle-Vail
south is more peach growing in Montrose and then to Telluride
just west from Grand Junction is of course Utah and Park City and Snowbird
just an honest idea to help ... if not any help, then nvm
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If I had to pick 1... Telluride. If it has to be Utah than go for Snowbird and Alta. Jackson Hole is also high on the list. The Vail Resorts-owned mountain have a reputation for being very crowded now FYI. Hitting the Aspen Area is good for a longer vacation because there are 4 resorts there, and you can move over to Vail or Summit County if you desire.
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FAQ
Seemed reasonable, along with lift tickets and the breakfast......... 
