 Poster: A snowHead
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@DavidYacht, pure bad luck and I hope it was not too unpleasant! Amongst my friends it seems those who went to France were most infected, not sure if that is simply because so many go to France though! We were in Italy this half term, self catered but did eat out and took sensible precautions including FFP2 masks which offer some protection to the wearer at least.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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No worse than a medium cold, but I did have the benefit of being triple jabbed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| interpaul wrote: |
| It is time to remove all the Covid rules and for the Covid vigilantes to stand down. |
There are no 'vigilantes'. But there are people who've studied and handled multiple recent epidemics all over the world who are trying to apply effective countermeasures against a serious pandemic, so we can all get back to some sort of normal. You might not agree with their analysis and you might weight the cost/benefit of countermeasure differently. I'm all for an evidence-based, reasoned discussion: but name-calling is childish.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@interpaul, I've just had a quick look at the Easyjet page you've screenshotted (is that a word?) a section of, and the information on there seems pretty clear and correct. In both your screenshot and the current page it says "You are allowed to enter only if you meet certain requirements. Read carefully below" which indicates that you need to read further to see if you meet the requirements. If you click on "Entry Requirements" and unfold that bit of the page it shows what these entry requirements are, and tourism isn't included. Has the information under the Entry Requirements section changed since you looked at it? (I guess it may have done, as it is marked as having been reviewed and updated today).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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That escalated quickly! Vaccines are great (I've had 3), but they don’t stop you catching or passing on Covid. They just suppress the effects of the virus and prevent you potentially being hospitalised (or dying horribly). I waited 3 hours, outside, in freezing temperatures here in CH for my booster in December, when I could have been skiing or in the pub. Time well spent.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hi, I’m not vaccinated but have a recovery certificate.
I’ve had 2 trips to Switzerland this season. Once directly in to Geneva and the other landing in Milan and driving in to Switzerland.
All was sound.
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@Rom77, I assume you are an Irish citizen with EU freedom of movement so different rules apply. Well, no rules really...
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U assume wrong daaawg 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@interpaul, You are right that the rules are inconsistent and it is possible to circumvent them. You may well get away with it. My wife flew Ryanair to Milan in February and no one checked any of her test, vaccine or PLF documents. I as on an EasyJet flight a few days earlier with my boys and everything was checked.
It remains immoral (and illegal) to circumvent the rules for entry to any country. As it does to encourage a young adult to deliberately avoid the consequences of the choices they make. To even suggest that you would travel whilst knowing you are infectious is even more egregious, as it imposes an increased risk on others.
You also seem to completely misunderstand why the choice to remain unvaccinated is of interest to all. The ultimate purpose of the vaccine is not to prevent infection, but rather to ensure that the healthcare system we all rely on is not overwhelmed with Covid cases. Those who remain unvaccinated are relying on the protection provided by others, as they have the same reliance on the healthcare system being available to them. That makes it a deeply selfish act, and a choice that is only possible because the vast majority have chosen to do the right thing and come forward for their vaccination. I recognise that everyone has the right to make that choice, but those that do should accept the consequences in an adult manner.
The choice for you regarding your holiday is a moral one, and also depends on the level of risk you are willing to take that you are found out. And the example you set for the next generation.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| zikomo wrote: |
@interpaul, You are right that the rules are inconsistent and it is possible to circumvent them. You may well get away with it. My wife flew Ryanair to Milan in February and no one checked any of her test, vaccine or PLF documents. I as on an EasyJet flight a few days earlier with my boys and everything was checked.
It remains immoral (and illegal) to circumvent the rules for entry to any country. As it does to encourage a young adult to deliberately avoid the consequences of the choices they make. To even suggest that you would travel whilst knowing you are infectious is even more egregious, as it imposes an increased risk on others.
You also seem to completely misunderstand why the choice to remain unvaccinated is of interest to all. The ultimate purpose of the vaccine is not to prevent infection, but rather to ensure that the healthcare system we all rely on is not overwhelmed with Covid cases. Those who remain unvaccinated are relying on the protection provided by others, as they have the same reliance on the healthcare system being available to them. That makes it a deeply selfish act, and a choice that is only possible because the vast majority have chosen to do the right thing and come forward for their vaccination. I recognise that everyone has the right to make that choice, but those that do should accept the consequences in an adult manner.
The choice for you regarding your holiday is a moral one, and also depends on the level of risk you are willing to take that you are found out. And the example you set for the next generation. |
What are you on about? I am not circumventing anything and it is entirely an individuals choice whether they have ANY sort of vaccine. I have tested Negative today, am past the 10 days prescribed by Scot Gov to quarantine and am entirely within the rules to travel, which I am going to 
My Daughter had full blown Covid last year (not Omicron) and was fine after a week, she would rather take her chances. The Vaccine doesn't stop infection, makes it less bad for those who vaxxed so to say she is relying on other peoples being vaccinated is just wrong. We have just recovered from Covid having caught the infection 2 weeks ago. The Vax did not stop us getting it, or being able to pass it on.
Any young person, who is fit and healthy has the right to refuse the vaccine, it is not your choice no matter how much moral high ground you want to climb up.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@interpaul, I think that bit that annoyed a few people, myself included, was that you were fishing to see if the Covid checks were taking place prior to flying to Geneva or on arrival there in the hope that your daughter could "wing it" and travel when she shouldn't.
It shouldn't be an issue of whether the rules are being applied or not but rather the fact that they are there and people need to abide by them for everyone's safety. The alternative would be for mass checking of compliance of every single rule that there is which would make life very difficult for everyone.
You are correct that it is a person's choice whether to be vaccinated or not but there is also a consequence to that choice.
Enjoy your holiday...they were checking for Covid passes in the mountain restaurants in Switzerland two weeks ago so your daughter may wish to do a packed lunch (if she does travel with you).
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@interpaul, Ummm yes I agree, and have previously agreed, that it is the right of the individual to decide whether to get the vaccine or not. That is a fact.
You still seem to struggle to understand, however, how the choice to remain unvaccinated affects others and why it is therefore a matter of interest for society at large. In the case (as it is now) where the vast majority of the population has been vaccinated, hospitalisation rates remain quite low although infection rates are high. That means the healthcare system can cope, and remains available for other conditions and emergencies. In the case where vaccination rates are low and infection rates are high, the healthcare system would quickly become overwhelmed. The maths on this is pretty easy to work out as vaccine effectiveness in preventing hospitalisation has been well proven and quantified. Thus the ability to be able to choose to remain unvaccinated whilst still having access to healthcare is reliant on the majority of others choosing to receive the vaccine. The unvaccinated have not chosen to accept an overwhelmed healthcare system that would not be available to them in an emergency or otherwise, they have simply chosen to not contribute towards protecting the healthcare system. Which is only possible because the majority of their fellow citizens have chosen to fulfil their moral and civic duty towards others, and thus ensured that the healthcare system is not overwhelmed. This is not a moral high horse but simple fact (the effect of vaccination on hospitalisations has been calculated and published by the UK Health Security Agency). It may be a good idea to discuss this perspective with your daughter.
I am glad that you are Covid free. But you did suggest you would be happy to travel whilst still testing positive as it was within the rules. If I misinterpreted this I apologise.
You have also seemed to suggest that as it is possible to circumvent the rules which preclude your daughter from travelling to Switzerland for a ski holiday, you would be doing so. Again, I apologise if I have misinterpreted.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Rom77 wrote: |
| U assume wrong daaawg |
On a discussion like this one, it's helpful to give all the details of the particular circumstances for any example journeys. If you don't give all the details, then we have to make assumptions.
I also recently drove into Switzerland, and no-one checked anything Covid-related, so I too could have 'got away with it'. In my experience, I don't think there's any point in trying to have a rational or moral discussion with the proudly-unvaccinated, others have tried here more eloquently than I could, and failed.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| zikomo wrote: |
@interpaul, Ummm yes I agree, and have previously agreed, that it is the right of the individual to decide whether to get the vaccine or not. That is a fact.
I am glad that you are Covid free. But you did suggest you would be happy to travel whilst still testing positive as it was within the rules. If I misinterpreted this I apologise.. |
I was using this as an example of why the rules are just so wrong. I 'could' have travelled with active Covid as I am vaccinated, but someone who is covid free but unvaccinated can not.
You must admit, that is ridiculous.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| interpaul wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
@interpaul, Ummm yes I agree, and have previously agreed, that it is the right of the individual to decide whether to get the vaccine or not. That is a fact.
I am glad that you are Covid free. But you did suggest you would be happy to travel whilst still testing positive as it was within the rules. If I misinterpreted this I apologise.. |
I was using this as an example of why the rules are just so wrong. I 'could' have travelled with active Covid as I am vaccinated, but someone who is covid free but unvaccinated can not.
You must admit, that is ridiculous. |
It's not ridiculous if you apply some expectation that people with active Covid will have some sort of a conscience and refrain from travelling. The current judgement of many countries is that unvaccinated people present an unnecessary risk - if only to their own healthcare systems as the unvaxxed are likely on average to have more severe symptoms from infection. Plus probably a bit of behaviourial estimation - the unvaxxed in general might be less likely to be compliant with other rules re masking etc, respect for others etc.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@interpaul, Not really, as for most places you could travel with Covid whenever you wanted as the test was a self-administered LFD. I am sure some people lacking a moral compass will have gamed the test so they could travel.
You keep ignoring the actual purpose of vaccination. Is that because you are so wedded to the belief (and it is belief not understanding) that the only purpose is to prevent infection? The fact is the Covid vaccines are most effective at preventing hospitalisation (and death), and because the vast majority have been vaccinated society is able to return to normal even though infection rates are high. It seems eminently sensible to me that countries that are trying to keep hospitalisations to a manageable level while opening up the economy and society (with the resultant increase in infections) would not want any additional pressures created on the healthcare system by unvaccinated tourists. In short, many countries are more concerned about number of hospitalisations than infections. So it makes sense to insist on vaccination rather than testing tourists before entry.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I don't know why people are so frothy about the unvaccinated. It's now proven the vaccine doesn't dramatically reduce transmission (ref: BMJ), it does however stop you being unwell to some extent. So if you choose not to have it you'll possibly be more poorly but you're no more risk than someone boosted. That's your risk.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Looking at this from a slightly different perspective. In the (quite likely) event of her contracting the virus whilst on holiday, and (less likely) needing hospital treatment, would her travel insurance be considered valid if she had knowingly ignored the rules and traveled as an unvaccinated person?
Insurance premiums are based on risk. Maybe unvaccinated should pay a higher premium?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@orange, You clearly have absolutely no idea how vaccines work, and what the real effect of vaccination against Covid is.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Christ on a bike, the chap is just asking what the rules are - no need for all these lectures.
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| Quote: |
would her travel insurance be considered valid
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I imagine that, these days, health questionnaires for travel insurance would include questions about vaccinations. And if you didn't tell the truth, the whole deal could be invalid.
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| Snowfinders wrote: |
| Christ on a bike, the chap is just asking what the rules are - no need for all these lectures. |
He knew what the rules were. He was just seeing if it was practical for his daughter to dodge them due to slack enforcement.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Snowfinders wrote: |
| Christ on a bike, the chap is just asking what the rules are - no need for all these lectures. |
He knew what the rules were. He was just seeing if it was practical for his daughter to dodge them due to slack enforcement. |
This. OP has been quite clear that he knows exactly what the rules and requirement are. He just wanted to know if his daughter could circumvent them, and if anyone had experience of doing so.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Snowfinders wrote: |
| Christ on a bike, the chap is just asking what the rules are - no need for all these lectures. |
He knew what the rules were. He was just seeing if it was practical for his daughter to dodge them due to slack enforcement. |
No, that is not what I was saying at any point.
The EJ website clearly states non vaccinated people can enter Switzerland - which is wrong.
A lot of SHs have got onto a rant about unvaccinated people, and how they are somehow morally selfish. Listen, I would prefer all my family to be vaccinated but that is not going to happen at the moment.
I can't stand the Covid vigilante attitude that looks down on those who choose not to vaccinate. It is her body and up to her what if any vaccinations are administered. Fortunately other countries allow entry with proof of recovery, which as she tested Positive but was asymptomatic at the same time as us she can use for the next 6 months - Spain allows this for example. She was fine btw, as she has already had Covid.
Unfortunately CH does not allow proof of recovery, you must be fully vaccinated.
@zikomo Thanks for your condescending explanation. I fully understand that vaccines don't protect you from infection. Myself, wife and in laws all got infected at a family get together 2 weeks ago, we are all boosted so the vaccine certainly didn't prevent infection. This event actually turned out to be a super spreader with at least 15 people testing positive
I am actually glad I have had covid, as we were worried we could catch it on the plane, or more likely cable cars, restaurants and bars in Switzerland as they are having an explosion of C19 at the moment. Means we are all safe on the holiday now.
I have had my questions answered by two people, thank to you both. The rest of you can carry on as normal now.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| interpaul wrote: |
| I am actually glad I have had covid, as we were worried we could catch it on the plane, or more likely cable cars, restaurants and bars in Switzerland as they are having an explosion of C19 at the moment. Means we are all safe on the holiday now. |
Eh? Safe because you got infected?
You're at much lower risk because you were fully vaccinated.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| interpaul wrote: |
| The EJ website clearly states non vaccinated people can enter Switzerland - which is wrong. |
I don't think it does, though. Have you seen my post above?
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You know it makes sense.
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I believe you are mis-interpreting the EasyJet page. The bit you have highlighted in you first post is regarding pre-departure Testing, not vaccination status.'
If you click on 'Entry requirements', you get this for Unvacced. Shed loads of people allowed in Unvacced, but not if you are from the UK!!
Also see the posts from Sugarmoma666
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 11-03-22 14:56; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| interpaul wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Snowfinders wrote: |
| Christ on a bike, the chap is just asking what the rules are - no need for all these lectures. |
He knew what the rules were. He was just seeing if it was practical for his daughter to dodge them due to slack enforcement. |
No, that is not what I was saying at any point.
The EJ website clearly states non vaccinated people can enter Switzerland - which is wrong. |
| interpaul wrote: |
| I did already thanks, read the Gov site and Swiss travel checker last week and was aware of the situation. I will reiterate, I wanted to know peoples experiences on the ground as EJ contradicts that. I have heard that some people do not even get checked in Geneva. |
That is exactly what you said - that you were fully aware of the rules but wanted to know if you could get away with your daughter not being checked. You know she is not allowed to enter Switzerland, but had heard that "some people do not even get checked in Geneva". And asked explicitly on more than one occasion for others experience of that. Interesting that now you have been challenged you seek to deny your own words.
And as has been pointed out to you quite a few times, in any case the easyJet website is actually accurate. You just failed to read it properly. Not that it is relevant.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Who keeps putting 20p’s in zikomo? And whoever it is, please stop !
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Rom77 wrote: |
| Who keeps putting 20p’s in zikomo? And whoever it is, please stop ! |
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Rom77, I am cheaper than that!
Seriously just don't like dishonesty. And especially denying when challenged.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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How can I send 20p? I'm just glad someone has the energy to keep plugging away with tedious old fashioned things like truth and logic..
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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He's beaten me to the same comment a number of times.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Holy poo-poo…. Let’s hope whoever it is runs out of the 20’s just incase they start spending em on you’s then
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@mgrolf, Nearly fell off my seat when I heard a 1st class stamp is now nearly £1! How did that happen?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sorry in my excitement I typed the wrong words, it is a 'proof of recovery letter' my mate used.
So, we will have a proof of recovery letter tomorrow, as she has a positive PCR from the beginning of the month. As long as it is 10 days apart we are all good - which we are.
It's good news, means that people who have recovered can travel - it is sensible.
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FAQ
