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Anyone stranded due to positive return test?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
My employee, late 30s, just returned from Bulgaria on lads' ski trip. He was Neg Lft pre-departure but arrived back WITH Covid. His roommate Pos pre-dep Lft left behind in Bulgaria Eh oh! Eh oh!
Don't fancy that.....
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hells Bells wrote:
@clarky999, nothing to drink from? Inadequate heating in a winter climate? OK, so it's free, but the basics should be provided. I agree you should expect to be in isolation, but should also expect to be treated humanely.


Fair points, glasses to drink from are a pretty basic minimum standard. And yes heating too; I guess based on the sensationalism through much of the rest of the article I've just assumed that they are over-egging the problems with the heating too, but maybe that's an unfair assumption.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
One thing about a flight is they have HEPA filters and 100% recirculating air so the virus is filtered out.

There are some planes that are 50/50 but not in the big fleets.

Source
https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/the-ba-experience/welcome-on-board#LNA
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@brianatab, If you are that concerned about getting Covid perhaps do a number of defensive things
to fully minimise your risks? Check your antibody levels before you go (my understanding is that a high level circulating in the blood vastly reduces your chance of becoming infected, but I`m not an expert). Get yourself a 'proper' mask and visor which protects you (I`m sure some research will let you purchase them) and though surface contact has now been largely dismissed as a vector, sanitise regularly.

When flying before Xmas I was concerned I did not want to bring covid back to my very elderly Aunt (although she survived covid once and has been jabbed) so I looked into what measures I could take. Thankfully my antibody level was still high, I did sanitise regularly, and I opted for a FFP2 face mask rather than the full respirator/visor set up.

There were people on both flights with colds/coughs etc
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@CaravanSkier, I've just purchased some FFP2 masks for the bash, having used surgical masks regularly in the UK.

Although I'm now 60, I'm still relatively healthy, not overweight, never smoked, no health issues, and triple jabbed, so I'm not concerned about getting Covid, other than the fact that I'm Carer for my Mother, 85 with Parkinsons.

Having, been careful with contacts, and going on a bash where almost everybody will have had the booster, and also been careful, I'd hate to then be sat next to someone who had spent the week in the Folie Douce, and had obvious symptoms.

The current system of pre departure tests, whilst having the threat on not being able to return home, at least reduced the risks in the Airport and flight.

I would hope that the airlines would be sensible, and at least test anybody with obvious symptoms. Maybe a simple temperature check of everybody, as in the early days?

I would also expect that they start enforcing the wearing of masks during the flight (apparently not, according to other threads). Maybe this should be a mandatory requirement as with other public transport?
If anyone near me refuses to wear a mask, there will be a serious problem for the flight crew to sort.
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@brianatab, you could go to ffp3 mask to further reduce your risk. The fit is better still than ffp2 and filtration higher. Down side is they're less pleasant to wear and take more effort to breath.

EasyJets ffp2 policy is a joke. Even their own cabin crew are wearing simple surgical masks, though for both my flights for the PiPAU bash they were constantly asking for masks to be worn correctly.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Scarlet wrote:
RedandWhiteFlachau wrote:
In Austria (Salzburgland) the test to release is on Day 5 after your positive result. If you have no symptoms and a CT level >30 then you are free to go even if you register a Positive Test. If not, then you are released on Day 10 regardless. The "Long" COVID scenario doesn't apply unless you're receiving treatment.

Are you sure about that? That sounds like test-to-release after contact with a positive case (K1) and negative test, NOT after a positive test. I've heard of a couple of mild infections where the person has had to be in quarantine for a month or so, but don't have first-hand experience to verify that.


Very sure. Here is the exact wording on the Ordinance for a guest who tested positive on 31 Dec 21 and they were called today for their release test:

"Die notwendigen Maßnahmen zur Vornahme eines PCR-Tests auf SARS-CoV-2 bei der von der Behörde vorgesehenen „Drive-In" Testeinrichtung sind unter ab dem 5 Tag ist nur möglich, wenn nachgewiesen ist, dass keine Ansteckungsgefahr mehr vorliegt. Dieser Nachweis ist gegeben, wenn
- eine mindestens 48 stündige Symptomfreiheit sowie
- ein aktuelles, negatives PCR-Testergebnis auf SARS-CoV-2 oder ein positives PCRTestergebnis auf SARS-CoV-2 mit einem Ct-Wert ≥ 30
- keine der Varianten Beta, Gamma oder Omikron bei der Indexperson
vorliegt."

They seem to have abandoned Omikron as a varient of concern as that is the one everyone here is testing positive for. As you know, it idetifies your CT level and varient on your test sheet.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
adithorp wrote:

EasyJets ffp2 policy is a joke. Even their own cabin crew are wearing simple surgical masks, though for both my flights for the PiPAU bash they were constantly asking for masks to be worn correctly.



Agreed - I was astonished that even their own staff weren't wearing the FFP2s, and on my flight they were just dishing out the blue surgical masks to passengers who'd turned up without a mask. The FFP2s are pretty cheap and I understand are far more effective than the standard surgical masks. IMHO they are mis-selling, as you buy a ticket (or I certainly did) on the basis that they'll be meeting the health and safety protocols that they advertise. Imagine if they did the same with seat belts?
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@RedandWhiteFlachau, fair enough, I didn’t realise it was possible to release early from a positive PCR, especially with the current debates about reducing the duration. It’s very confusing.

As for what’s on the test sheet, I’ve never seen a positive test so I have no idea, but if there is no concern about the variant, then there is little point in having countries on a variant list for the same thing.
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CathS wrote:
adithorp wrote:

EasyJets ffp2 policy is a joke. Even their own cabin crew are wearing simple surgical masks, though for both my flights for the PiPAU bash they were constantly asking for masks to be worn correctly.



Agreed - I was astonished that even their own staff weren't wearing the FFP2s, and on my flight they were just dishing out the blue surgical masks to passengers who'd turned up without a mask. The FFP2s are pretty cheap and I understand are far more effective than the standard surgical masks. IMHO they are mis-selling, as you buy a ticket (or I certainly did) on the basis that they'll be meeting the health and safety protocols that they advertise. Imagine if they did the same with seat belts?

In my view, their policy is very confused. It reads:

"It’s important that your mask offers the best possible protection, so we’re no longer allowing scarves, face visors or masks with valves. Your mask needs to be FFP2 certified (or equivalent) and be surgical or cloth material. If it’s not suitable, you may be refused travel."

That's taken from https://www.easyjet.com/en/covid-19-travel-hub/safety-measures-wellbeing-and-mask-policy

By my understanding, face coverings can be FFP2 (which is a respirator standard) or surgical. It's really not clear to me what they are expecting people to wear. Perhaps someone flying with them would query it?

This interesting blog explains a bit about standards for face coverings:
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/comparison-mask-standards-rating-effectiveness/
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Quote:

you could go to ffp3 mask to further reduce your risk. The fit is better still than ffp2 and filtration higher. Down side is they're less pleasant to wear and take more effort to breath.

They certainly take more effort to breathe - I found when I wore one in the theatre that walking back up to my seat from the foyer left me a bit out of breath, though it was only a few steps. Even just sitting, they were harder work. But that was some months ago. I'm going to the theatre tonight and will wear just a cheap basic one - I'm not bothered if I get Omicron, really, and will be wearing a mask only to comply with the rules.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
'Your mask needs to be FFP2 certified (or equivalent)' seems pretty clear to me.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@pam w, Wearing a mask is primarily to protect others, not yourself Very Happy
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
CathS wrote:
'Your mask needs to be FFP2 certified (or equivalent)' seems pretty clear to me.

If that's all it said then it would be, but it isn't. The second half of the sentence muddies things at best and is contradictory at worst. If you wear an FFP2, then would you also be meeting the "and be surgical or cloth material" part?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
MorningGory wrote:
@pam w, Wearing a mask is primarily to protect others, not yourself Very Happy


Very true of surgical masks but protection of the wearer ramps up pretty quick with ffp2+3 masks through still lower than the protection to others.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

Wearing a mask is primarily to protect others, not yourself

I've never understood that - it implies masks are one-way with their protection to me? In which case where it inside out and protect yourself!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I think very few people get stranded . I've see a few (rather foolishly shared) posts on FB with people testing positive and making a dash for the tunnel. This was in the window where a return test wasn't required.
There are also lots of ways to play the system to ensure a negative test (not suggesting that is morally correct), which makes a mockery of the whole test to return.

it is in any case irrelevant in the grand scheme of a pandemic and the virus if you isolate in the country of holiday or in your home country just that you don't travel on a plane with other people if you test positive and isolate where you got it.

Looking at latest info, there is a small window where you are contagious and wearing a mask (according to govt.) reduces the chances of spreading the virus to people that are now primarily triple jabbed so depending when you got it on holiday its likely minimal risk of passing on (massive assumption there) and lets be honest vast majority of people are not really bothered about getting it/passing on now - its just the inconvenience caused to ourselves and others.

There is nothing to suggest that going on holiday is lower or higher risk to the general population than someone at home going to work/out for meals etc. In fact i would argue on our holiday to Val D'isere just before the rules changed it was very low risk, one/two busyish gondolas up the mountain often in our family group alone and then in the open air all day and on chairs or empty gondolas and mixing in restaurants. Compare that with likely commuting to work (office and hospital for me and my other half) and eating out/Christmas shopping at the same time.

It's just the governments of each country are seen to be protecting their borders and population by keep people out with these tests. Its all farcical really.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Just announced by BoJo in the House - test to return dropped & day 2 PCR replaced by lateral flow. From this Friday.
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@Chuckles3, Handy, although I've had 2 LFT delivered today, one not now needed! Will save on the 2 day PCR which I haven't got yet Smile
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Chuckles3,
Is that a "test at home" lateral flow, or one that needs to be certified?
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MorningGory wrote:
@Chuckles3, Handy, although I've had 2 LFT delivered today, one not now needed! Will save on the 2 day PCR which I haven't got yet Smile


me too, though now creates question on what is required for the inbound PLF - do you need an LFT order to put on it for your day 2... or can i use the inbound LFT test which i already have. which is the same as a day 2 LFT but different packaging no doubt but probably doesnt suffice the govt. PLF form which isnt tracked or linked to anything anyway so you can re use codes....

all a waste of time.

Still going back to the OP question , likely reduces the chances of anyone getting stuck to near 0 now unless you get a bad dose of it and have to stay put.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@therock, I wouldn't worry too much, just put the order ref for the one you have on the PLF - I'm 99.9% sure it's not a validated field!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Perhaps I am unusual, but dropping the pre-departure test to return means I am now less likely to fly, which is the opposite of what the travel industry wants! I can to a large extent control my exposure in resort, but not in the airport / on a plane. It might increase the chance of using Eurotunnel - once France lets us in again!
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dunc999 wrote:
@therock, I wouldn't worry too much, just put the order ref for the one you have on the PLF - I'm 99.9% sure it's not a validated field!


Im sure you are right! even if it was pretty sure the govt isn't connected to all these private companies to check its a correct order number!
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https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0105/1269942-covid-travel-ireland/

Predeparture tests for return to Ireland being abolished
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ecureuil wrote:
Perhaps I am unusual, but dropping the pre-departure test to return means I am now less likely to fly, which is the opposite of what the travel industry wants! I can to a large extent control my exposure in resort, but not in the airport / on a plane. It might increase the chance of using Eurotunnel - once France lets us in again!


The country you are travelling might/will still need a PCR/LFT tho'....
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

Wearing a mask is primarily to protect others, not yourself

Yes, I know that, @MorningGory, but the FFP3 masks protect the wearer to a greater extent - hence I wore one of those when I was trying to avoid getting Covid myself, but don't bother now. I've tested negative on LFT every day for a week so would not be a danger to others even without a mask, but the rules require a mask.

Given the huge infection rates, anyone worried about catching Covid on a plane must be avoiding just about all interactions with other people who have not tested negative in the past 12 hours.

I'd be a lot less deterred from travelling abroad now that the fear of getting stuck there is so much reduced.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
ecureuil wrote:
Perhaps I am unusual, but dropping the pre-departure test to return means I am now less likely to fly, which is the opposite of what the travel industry wants! I can to a large extent control my exposure in resort, but not in the airport / on a plane. It might increase the chance of using Eurotunnel - once France lets us in again!


What are you worried about? getting covid?

More likely to have an accident on slopes than anything serious from covid. Seems a bit irrational.
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You know it makes sense.
@pam w,
Quote:

I'd be a lot less deterred from travelling abroad now that the fear of getting stuck there is so much reduced.

+1 and I could well have just cancelled two trips unnecessarily. Oh well, first world problems and all that.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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brianatab wrote:
@Chuckles3,
Is that a "test at home" lateral flow, or one that needs to be certified?


From every thing I’ve read, it still needs to be a purchased one that can be certified. I’ve just done a quick trawl but can’t find any ‘Day 2 Antigen tests’ yet. I guess it’ll take a few days for them to rebrand again.

I do have two old tests from October when they dropped the requirement whilst we were away but they didn’t come with test specific order numbers so I’m guessing I can’t repurpose these. I might drop a note to C19 testing to see what they say though before shelling out again.
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therock wrote:

What are you worried about? getting covid?

More likely to have an accident on slopes than anything serious from covid. Seems a bit irrational.

Do you have the stats? On slope accident rate vs Covid transmission at airport+flight?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
therock wrote:
ecureuil wrote:
Perhaps I am unusual, but dropping the pre-departure test to return means I am now less likely to fly, which is the opposite of what the travel industry wants! I can to a large extent control my exposure in resort, but not in the airport / on a plane. It might increase the chance of using Eurotunnel - once France lets us in again!


What are you worried about? getting covid?

More likely to have an accident on slopes than anything serious from covid. Seems a bit irrational.


Picking up Covid on the flight home is at the very least an inconvenience (assuming it's now no worse than a bad cold for most people), but catching it on the flight out and being ill on holiday is a pretty rubbish scenario.

In either case you'd still have to self-isolate (at home or abroad), unless you were going to ignore the isolation requirements and go around infecting other people.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Hurtle, is it too late to reinstate your trips?
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@therock, there are still plenty of people in the country with compromised immune systems, for whom any variant of Covid could make them seriously ill, or even be fatal. Not testing people before they sit close to others on a plane for a few hours just seems daft - more sensible to test before departure than on arrival.
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@pam w, the risk of getting stuck is reduced but still not negligible, as pointed out above. I'll hold out for March and April, I think, which will give me another couple of months to see whether I get another uveitis relapse.
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Well not exactly but the death rate for under 60s has been 0.2 per 100 000 people per day in in the UK for a while assuming most people who ski are going to be pretty healthy and not have some underlying condition. It iss going to be even lower if you could get a rate for 'people who ski'.

I can't find too may stats on death rates for skiing, Austria published some figures a while back at 0.79 deaths per 1million skier days and some North American studies were similar too.

Basically, point is both travelling to a ski resort/skiing and living your normal life are very low risk for most people.

It wasn't a dig at the poster just trying to point out that there really isn't anything worry about.
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achilles wrote:
I strongly suspect it depends on individual resort policy, not just national policy. The Telegraph reported a bit of a horror story of a family placed in a quarantine hotel after one of them caught covid at Obergurgle. It looks as though he had had Covid before he left the UK - but this had not been picked up in the pre departure test. However, what then happened would have applied had he picked up the infection during travel or in resort.

Quote:

When we left, Austria had just come out of lockdown. My wife and I are tripled-jabbed, most of us had Covid this summer and we thought we were fairly safe. Though it wasn’t required before travel, we all took lateral flow tests before leaving.

But the night we arrived in Obergurgl my son didn’t want to go to dinner, which is unusual. He felt feverish, so we tested him again but that was negative. It was the same Sunday morning, so we all stayed in the hotel for the day and didn’t ski. On Monday morning he still felt unwell — but nothing more than a mild cold — so my wife stayed with him while I took my two daughters out to ski.

But when I tested him Monday afternoon, he was positive.

I immediately spoke to the front desk but they didn’t know what to do — things are constantly changing. Initially they said isolate the child but the rest of you can do what you want, which sounded a bit relaxed.

They notified the Austrian health authorities, however, and it went downhill from there.

We were told not to leave the room, and while the hotel initially offered us a separate three-bed, two-bathroom apartment where we would be more comfortable, the authorities wouldn’t let us move.

Instead we were given PCR tests on Tuesday (December 21) morning and that evening taken to a ‘safe house’ 15km outside Innsbruck.

Drivers in hazmat suits arrived at 7pm to transfer us in an old ambulance with bare metal walls. It was minus 5C or so outside, with no heat in the vehicle — they said the cold was better for the Covid patient! — so my kids were scared and freezing by the time we arrived.

They were treating us like we had Ebola and that drive set the tone.

We arrived at the Clubhotel Goetzen/Edelweiss Hotel, a former three-star hotel being used by the Government to house people with Covid. The radiators in the room were cold and we couldn’t warm up. We had one duvet each and shivered through the night, fully clothed, keeping ourselves warm with heat from the stove in the kitchenette.

Hot water is intermittent — it’s warm at best and only good enough for one shower now and then. The hotel manager wouldn’t respond to my queries for more blankets but the guard who checks us regularly kindly found us more.

We were offered a room for four people or two separate rooms — but we didn’t want to split up because the kids are afraid and my wife and I worried what might happen if either adult became really unwell. So despite the risk of infection, we took the room for four. My son is in the bedroom and the rest of us in the common room. They have a few screens but the Wi-Fi is patchy and there’s nothing else for them to do — we’re not allowed outside to exercise, but thankfully we have a balcony so we can get some fresh air.

The one good thing is that we can order deliveries, so I ordered a heater which arrived from Amazon today. We’re given three meals a day but they are predictably nasty. Lunch one day was fried cheese, dinner last night a plateful of deep-fried mushrooms, breakfast is rolls and jam. There’s not a single plate, glass or cup in the kitchenette — we have to drink out of the tap.

It’s not the worst thing in the world — we have been able to order from local restaurants and the accommodation is free, we’re not paying. I’d be livid if we were paying. The hotel in Obergurgl reimbursed me for the rest of the week we didn’t stay there and helped get our money back from ski rental and lessons, they were really kind.

We were all tested again yesterday and are still negative. We have another test on December 27 before hopefully being freed on December 28 but our biggest concern is that another of us gets Covid and the quarantine clock starts over. That would be a disaster.

I’m not speaking out to be inflammatory — but if anyone in your party tests positive in Austria, you’re going to be basically under house arrest for at least ten days. I haven’t contacted my insurance company because I know they don’t cover this.

When we were trying to decide whether or not to go, Austria had opened up again after lockdown, with no requirements for pre-departure testing, so I thought they seemed pretty flexible, but that belies what really happens if someone in your group gets Covid. There’s no way you can guard against it and this place is filling up with English people.


The author refers to the action taken by "Austrian health authorities" but I suspect that it was the local public health authority which decided how isolation should be effected. However, there is no doubt that catching covid in resort has consequences. Under my circumstances, I have decided to wait until the situation settles in the hope that the risk reduces as March and April approach. Not preaching at anyone - the risk assessment will be different for each of us.


I agree, I read that too and tbh it killed off any remaining notion of going out. I'm a January skier and when I do go later I end up not enjoying it as much so unless things change drastically and the weather stays unseasonably cold by the time half term is over alas again its a no for this season. Sad
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Boris wrote:
Quote:

Wearing a mask is primarily to protect others, not yourself

I've never understood that - it implies masks are one-way with their protection to me? In which case where it inside out and protect yourself!


It's not so much that the masks only work one way, rather that it's easier/more efficient to prevent virus laiden droplets escaping an infected person's mouth/nose than to try and stop them getting into someone else's body.

A bit like a baby in a swimming pool. Yes, everyone could wear scuba gear to avoid an accidental poop encounter...or the baby could just wear a swimming nappy.
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Quote:

while assuming most people who ski are going to be pretty healthy and not have some underlying condition

I would have to say that's a rather bad assumption.

"Pretty healthy" depending on definition. It's nonetheless not the same as "not have some underlying condition". You can have a well controlled underlying condition (hypertension, diabetes to name a couple) and still ski perfectly well. I know of many people who ski but do have underlying conditions. You just wouldn't know it unless you're intimate friends.
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MorningGory wrote:
@Chuckles3, Handy, although I've had 2 LFT delivered today, one not now needed! Will save on the 2 day PCR which I haven't got yet Smile


Same here - I am now wondering if I can repurpose my return to UK test as the Day 2 test.
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