 Poster: A snowHead
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@Steilhang, well perhaps if you had said that in your first reply it would have been better for everybody on snowheads.
I suppose we need to see a before picture the event to see if there was any glide cracks or reptations to see if there was any sign to foretell this avalanche. From reading I would argue that they are not impossible to predict, very difficult yes. Certainly an area where more research is required. And certainly unusual at this time of year.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@chocksaway, thanks for the advice. I shall try to use it as guidance in future dealings with @Whitegold. Btw, the fact that it was a Gleitschneelawine was only made known about a day after the event, so prior to that, and in the absence of any knowledge at all about the series of events that lead to the accident, I guess calling the piste control people incompetent / not doing their job was the correct way to call it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Steilhang, I'd be very surprised if that was the first time that that slope has ever gone?
And what is it about a Gleitschneelawine that makes bombing ineffective?
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@spyderjon, same problem they had in St. Anton / Happy Valley couple of seasons ago. Bombing only triggers about 30% of these slopes.
Was having a discussion with one of the piste patrollers in Kleinwalsertal last summer. He said the problem is that there are ever fewer hill farmers with sheep & goats to keep the grass short, hence snow glides on the long grass in Winter. Sounds plausible I guess.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@spyderjon, I'm not sure exactly where that slope is but there is a large chunk of the resort that is new. They may not understand it as well as they understand the Gemstock, for example.
Andermatt gets more snow than anywhere else in Switzerland. A combination of that, warm ground and sunny aspects is going to produce glide crack. I'd imagine this one is going to be carefully studied given the size of it and the fact that it overran a piste.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Seems like another piste avalanche.
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Italy
Total Dead in Last Week
7
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Steilhang, Can you give more details on the source that characterized the Andermatt avalanche as a Glide one? Thanks!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Steilhang, Thanks! Interesting that they did not build avalanche barriers above the trail.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Weathercam wrote: |
| @davidof, not too sure what point you're trying to make. |
There is a weak layer in the snowpack along the French/Italian border, that layer is not going away and they don't want avalanches. |
whats caused the weak layer?
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Two avalanches over open pistes. These are traditionally rare. I remember a concerned poster on here being told it never happens though I recall an incident in ischgl a couple of years back and an incident last year that killed an instructor that was caught on camera.
Two seven year old girls being killed on an open piste is something that will send a chill down the spine of many on here. I hope the drive into the resort still remains statistically more dangerous.
Any explanation in terms of snow pack of why it might be worse this year?
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You know it makes sense.
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@8611, probably something to do with fact it was very mild right into November and ground was very warm as 1st snows fell so the bottom of the snowpack just never really bonded properly to ground. In previous years when the snowpack remained thin for long time this lead to depth hoar problem, maybe not such an issue this year as so much snow fell quite early, but the "glide" issue at the very bottom remains. Am I right both avalanches you refer to were glide, not slab, avalanches?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Piste security have a similar dilemma to the mayor in Jaws.
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Poster: A snowHead
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It’s all to do with the weather, obviously, and, in particular, the temperature gradient within the snowpack.
https://avalanche.org/avalanche-encyclopedia/faceted-snow/
Moisture is drawn towards warmth. (Warm air can hold more moisture than cold.) If the air temperature rises significantly soon after the first snowfall then moisture can be drawn out of the ground into the lower layers of snow. This can end up as beads like a layer of frozen peas - or ball bearings - next to the ground. With such low friction, it takes very little to set the overlying snowpack on its way down the hill.
Well, that’s my very rough understanding. I’m sure some expert will be along soon to correct me.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't know if other areas offer this information, but in Tirol/South Tirol you can get the snow profile charts for all the different stations. It is linked from the avalanche bulletin: https://avalanche.report/bulletin/latest (top menus, Snow & Weather), or directly here: https://www.lawis.at/profile/
Zoom in on your preferred location and you can get a load of data including the snow profile pdf.
Interpreting said data is a little challenging, but I know some here are well versed in such things.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Woosh wrote: |
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/two-german-girls-among-three-killed-in-italy-avalanche
Seems like another piste avalanche. |
Looks like they're investigating the possibility that it was triggered by others off-piste skiing: LINK
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That is highly suggestive. But yes, it's always easier to blame someone else, instead of evaluating whether you really made the right decision by opening the piste under the circumstances.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@peanuthead, I'm not sure. But the photos in andermatt certainly didn't show snow down to the grass. So maybe the weak layer referred to by @altis.
But surely this should be factored into the piste management? And slopes above pistes bombed? One of the worrying things is that i've always regarded slopes above pistes as being fair game for off piste, on the clearly naive basis that they must be maintained so they aren't a slide risk in order to protect the piste below. The thought of actually triggering a slide that endangers others is unnerving.
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| 8611 wrote: |
| @peanuthead, ...One of the worrying things is that i've always regarded slopes above pistes as being fair game for off piste, on the clearly naive basis that they must be maintained so they aren't a slide risk in order to protect the piste below. ... |
I'd also thought that.
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..
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@BobinCH, Wow
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In bounds avi in Idaho. Kills two.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/2nd-skier-found-dead-avalanche-151615574.html
KELLOGG, Idaho (AP) — An Idaho ski resort was closed on Wednesday, a day after a series of avalanches killed two skiers and injured five others.
Silver Mountain Resort spokesman Gus Colburn said all the skiers in the area of the avalanches Tuesday morning were believed to be accounted for.
The names of the victims have not been released.
The resort said what appeared to be a series of three avalanches occurred about 11 a.m. on Wardner Peak, an area of the resort where the ski runs are rated at the highest difficulty level.
The runs had just been opened for a short period after crews performed avalanche control blasting in the area Tuesday morning, using explosives to trigger avalanches in hopes of leaving only the stable snow layers on the runs, officials said.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It’s pretty steep. Those faces always go but usually in March / April with big wet snow slides all the way down to Carrefour.
Looks like it went just above the (popular) traverse line. Assume it was slow but get caught in that and you’d be in trouble...
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Weathercam, wow, that's quite some picture. Did the skier survive?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@BobinCH,
Thanks for posting that link. Amazing read, glad they got out ok.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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3 dead in Japan over the last couple of days, separate incidents.
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FAQ
