All Mountain Ski's 90 - 99mm? What width? What ski?

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Looking across the Black Crows range, it’s interesting that the 91mm waisted Orb has been recategorised as a ‘piste’ ski - I’m pretty sure they were marketed as ‘all mountain’ when I bought them a couple of years back. I opted for them as a general purpose all rounder after trying them back to back with the Blizzard Bonafides and Brahmas - enjoyed both of those skis, but found the Orbs much more forgiving to ski in situations where you don’t want to be on your edges all the time. Tried the Orbs in 172 and 178, and opted for the longer ones in the end as I found them a little more stable at higher speeds; the shorter ones felt a little wobbly on occasion, although I tip the scales at 14st (5’10”), so probably not surprising. They hold their edges pretty well on groomed runs, but they’re pretty forgiving if you want to be adding some rotation in there as well.

I’m currently running them with a set of Shifts for shorter ‘self propelled’ days out when I don’t think my lightweight touring setup will cope with conditions. I do most of my skiing in Scotland, so deep powder days are less of an issue here Very Happy

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@NeilPratt, This years Orbs are 88mm from a quick check of their website..........

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@Powder Pete, have you seen this thread? https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=148894

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It'd be interesting to use something like the Orb as an everyday ski, I wonder what it'd be like on hard pack/spring icy pistes??

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@Powder Pete,

If I was buying one ski to do everything then I'd go for 95mm and if I had the budget I'd go for the stocklis.

I actually spend most of my time on 108mm or 120mm but I'd really miss having something narrower for days when the snow was hard. The pleasure of linking short carved cross under turns is not to be sniffed at and I can really do that on a fatter ski. And if its a powder day you'll have a wonderful time on 95mm even if wider would be a little better.

BTW my old stormriders are the first generation XL - a massive 75mm in the waist! Still fun off piste.

After all it is free

@jedster, Stormrider XLs. Awesome. Why do they not still, etc.?

Any thoughts on the Stockli laser AR or AX. They are marked as all mountain race skis with 84mm underfoot and capable of off piste. Are they really wide enough though to be considered all mountain? I guess if you want great piste performance with all the carving energy and rebound you want as close to a race ski as you can get and as narrow as you can get without making them un-skiable in powder and variable conditions. Might the AR be a step too close to what I already have and basically just a race ski with some marketing that says they're suitable for off piste when they're not?

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@Powder Pete, the things that make a ski good at racing are the same attributes that make offpiste harder. The designs are diametrically opposed.

For offpiste, and especially all the tree skiing in Saalbach, you want a ski that will not just float but that will make pivot turns, slashes and scrubbed turns easier in 3D snow - whether you are on it or in it. A longitudinally and torsionally stiff ski with full length aggressive sidecut and basically full length camber will not make life easier or more fun off the groomers - even if you scaled it up to 100mm+ underfoot. That ski really wants to make carved turns of whatever its radius is, and won't reward you when you to smear smaller or bigger turns than that through powder trees or wind- Be Nice please!

chop or chalky couloir or whatever it is. The tips and tails want to hook up into *that* turn, not slide smoothly into the turn shape *you* want to make.

Can you ski those skis offpiste? Of course. And skiing in a traditional bouncy short swings manner down an open powder field without obstacles and terrain features they'll be just fine if you're a good enough skier. Like the ski instructors in those old ads from the 80s wink

But those open and easily accessible meadows will be tracked within hours of lifts opening these days.

But they won't help you unlock the more surfy and playful style and feeling that makes powder skiing the most fun skiing there is.

To do that, in my opinion, you need:

1. At *least* 100mm underfoot, preferably 110mm+
2. Healthy amounts of tip AND tail rocker
3. Tip and tail taper
4. Not a super small aggressive turn radius (though that can be offset by tip/tail taper)

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I was about to type something similar to @clarky999, just not as well put.

This is not a decision we can make for you......and your choice may depend on how well you manage/enjoy skiing Off Piste, on a more Piste orientated ski.

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@clarky999,save that up for future questions, very well put!

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

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Does it matter what bindings I get for the 95 stormrider? Squire 11 / Griffon 13 / Atomic Warden 13 / Tyrolia Attack 13 or 16 / Look Pivot / Salomon? Are they all pretty much the same. I ski an 8.5 DIN at the moment which falls within the range of all of them. Are they more durable as the price goes up? Are some easier to get on in powder? Do some offer improved ski feel?

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@Powder Pete, Do you think that you will get into any touring? Sometimes you can get great lines but you might have to skin out at the bottom, or indeed skin up to get to more places to get fresh lines. Myself, I use a 120 Bent Chetler with a frame binding for most of my off piste skiing in Austria, ok for touring but feels more like an alpine binding for the skiing.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Just to throw in my experience as it might be helpful. I've been skiing for 20 years, a couple of times a year if I'm lucky. I like to think about what I'm doing and work on technique on and off piste. I've done a bit of guided off piste, but not loads. I've also spent 4 weeks in Hokkaido skiing deep powder. I'd call myself an intermediate.

I first got into off piste skiing on a pair of 98mm waist full camber twin tip Rossignol S5. It was fun, but hard work - the tips wanted to dive and I had to be very careful with fore aft balance. I skied them everywhere - they carved OK and they handled mixed conditions reasonably well.

I then bought a pair of K2 remedy 112 for a trip to Hokkaido as it was way cheaper than renting. They are 112mm in the waist, have a lot of tip and tail rocker and very little camber. They are also very soft. They were a dream in deep powder for me - effortless to ski, and easy to pivot/slash in tight spots. They are usable and fun on piste, but they chatter, rattle and lose the edge from time to time when conditions are firm. They had Marker Squire bindings which were fine, although I only used them for 2 weeks so can't comment on their durability. I later swapped them for Marker Baron frame bindings, which feel sturdier, but are heavy. On reflection, I probably should have just left the squires on and got more dedicated uphill skis.

Last season I decided to buy a do it all ski, given that I generally ski a couple of weeks a year in Europe and don't really have the luxury of choosing conditions. I went for a pair of Atomic Vantage 100cti - they have significant tip rocker, not a lot of camber, a wee bit of tail rocker, a reasonably stiff construction with metal layer and a fairly significant side cut with a medium turn radius. A true best (or worst) of all worlds option. We had good conditions for the first week I took them out, with very low temperatures and recent snowfall from the week before. The pistes were grippy but with a bit of give and the off piste was mostly soft chop, but with pockets of boot deep powder and occasional wind blown crusty patches. The skis did exactly what I had hoped - they locked into a turn on piste with very limited chatter and could be bent into shorter or longer radiuses. They were drastically better on piste than the soft K2s. In mixed off piste conditions they were excellent. It was a bit trickier to pivot them round than the K2s, but their float was far superior to the similar width but traditional camber Rossignols. We spent some time with a guide who found us a few untracked open faces and it was a joy to carve big arcs at speed through boot deep powder. I haven't yet skied them on rock solid pistes or neck deep powder, but where I ski in Europe I have rarely encountered either. For me it's a good compromise for what I ski most of the time. I'll bring the K2s if the forecast says it's going to dump all week, and if its going to be rock solid ice I'll probably leave my skis at home and rent something more suitable.

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@element, Good post....The only thing I disagree with, is that you sound a lot better than an Intermediate - But humility is OK in my book.

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My favorites in this category:

SR 95, expensive but very versatile
Rossi Experience 94TI on the easy and fun side
Mantra M5
Kore 93
Black Crows Camox

From what I read I would rather recommend the Experience 94Ti

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@Old Fartbag, thanks, I've learned humility the hard way at several particularly notable points in my 20 year ski career - I'm sure you can empathise. My ski friends like to remind me of those notable points at every opportunity Laughing

@element thanks very much for your detailed input! Sounds like the 95-100mm is working great for you as a do it all ski. The 110+ might be nice when I get the chance for a 3rd set of skis but really if the 95-100 will do a great job off the piste then I probably wouldn't find myself using them all that much just because of their lack of piste performance and that fact that I probably wouldn't be doing pure powder days often. I suppose it will give me a chance to work on my off piste technique too - making it much easier than my current skis but without making it too easy like the fat skis.

@proskilab I do here from a few people that Rossignols are nice and compliant skis across the range suiting upper intermediate to advanced. A lot of BASI teachers seem to like them. I'll see if I can find a pair of 94Ti's to borrow. I did ski the kore 93s a little bit in the snowdome and they felt right to me - natural and easy. I do hear they're not great for choppy conditions due to the light weight but they are great to manoeuvre. I hear the top sheet won't be durable on them as it's like a fabric. I get the feeling the SR 95 might be very durable in the top sheet against chips and gouges because it's metal but I might be wrong.

Might be wise to get a pair like that first to check i'm happy with that width of all mountain before spending a lot. Would you say the SR95 was more versatile than the 95ti in some ways? I am feeling quite tempted by the SR95s given all the recommendations on here and the reputation of quality and durability. Given i'll be using them 100-150 days a season seems like an investment. If I were skiing a week or two a season - probably not worth it.

You know it makes sense.

@Powder Pete,

I do about 140 days a year. The Stormriders are worth it. Easily.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Powder pete

A snowHead

A snowHead

I'd certainly not try to discourage anyone from buying the Stokli 95SR, really great skis and I've always liked big twin tips.

The "Titanal" top sheet doesn't really offer anything by way of resistance to cosmetic degrading though. It's only a high strength aluminium alloy after all.

The trademark or identifier is designed to allude to Titanium it would seem, in which they appear to have produced an amalgam of that and Aluminium to produce a trademark mashup that sounds more technical that it is. Value in promotional terms from PR appears to be the marketing USP they all crave.

Nothing wrong with it as a material though, just it's use in advertising is amusing. They could also write "polyester resin" in the same vein, but it sounds nothing like as promotable, even though it's performance is absolutely core to bonding all the relevant materials together to produce a ski.

On that slant though, the Stokli are superbly built with a long term structural integrity the envy of many, as such they are a good longer term ownership proposition.

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@proskilab, yes it's just my sniggering at the representation of it that "suggests" it's in any way Titanium to give it that caché and technical high performance buzz.

Chatting with a metallurgist about it and origins of this alloy development path. Coming from Hiduminium "High duty Aluminium" used in Spitfire production some time ago, begat engineering identification of "Duralumin" as a specific high strength aluminium alloy, ultimately used in Concorde the skin of which is machined on its inside to produce integrated skin/internal ribbing along with such high material performance.

Most aircraft fuselage are of it nowadays.

Although the Boeing Dreamliner and it's followers are moving now more to a ski like construction with composites as principal structure, ironically. That polyester resin performance becomes even more important there, but also shows the shear scope of something so simple.

Noticed that the Kastlé FX96HP is moving back toward composite structure too. Would that make it marketable as a Kastlé Dreamliner Toofy Grin

?

All interesting stuff, fascinating to see how the ski manufacturers pack so much feel, response, differences into such a thin profile. We are lucky to have such a wide choice.

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A two-ski quiver consisting of Kaestle MX84 (or older 83) plus a forgiving, surfy, genuinely wide ski like the Rossis might do the trick. The Kaestles are a true go-anywhere ski, impeccable mix of power and all-day ease on groomers and ice – as powerful as a race ski but much less tiring – and perfectly capable off-piste. You wouldn't deliberately choose them for a powder day, obviously, but if you're teaching and skiing mixed conditions and end up off-piste at various points during your day, it wouldn't be disastrous. I've used the 83 a lot but not the newer 84, which is widely considered to be even better.

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@Powder Pete, line sick days for sale... https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=149671&highlight=&sid=635ae6caf8e5922e2ffd438b3e5e8166

Fwiw I wouldn't pull the trigger on the Stormrider 95s. Probably awesome skis, i wouldn't know, but they're trying to be a solution to another problem you've got and that's thst the G9s aren't suitable for your daily use. I have tried out the G9s and I found them to be heavy and fairly non-compliant at low speeds making a variety of turn shapes. Having said that, you do see a lot of instructors on skis with a racing pedigree, why I don't know, because they can maybe? But I wouldn't be looking to teach beginners on these.

If you were to buy a mid to high 70s wide ski for instruction and general play, e.g Stockli Laser AX if you're keen on the brand or Rossignol All Turn or Head, Fischer, Dynastar, Salomon, Nordica, Volkl etc all have well regarded skis in this neck of the woods. The Kastle MX84, as recommended above, has a ridiculously wide performance window.

Then you wouldn't need to compromise on a sub 100 wide all-rounder and could get something powder specific, giving you two pairs of skis that fit your requirements rather than two that don't quite. Plenty of people on here flogging stuff....

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@Jake_Statham Haha everyone is recommending the most expensive skis. Not that i'm averse to buying them. Which Rossis were you referring to?

One major thing i'm finding in the current chalky concrete like off piste that i've found in Saalbach at the moment is that it just wants to grab my skis and force them where I don't want them to go. My skis grip it so hard and won't let go easily. Is that to do with not having a big 20+ radius as well as a wider ski and applying too much angle?

84 is very much on the narrow side for all mountain isn't it? It does sound great on piste which i'll really enjoy but I do already have a very good piste ski. I saw this in a review on skiessentials:

"Even though the 84 mm waist width is relatively wide compared to traditional carving skis, it’s still best in groomed terrain. Those who want a more versatile ski for off-piste scenarios may want to jump over to the FX line which uses tip and tail rocker and early taper. The design of the MX 84 is rooted in responsive performance on firm snow. “It is a great ski for high performance skiers that miss having just a full camber ski that offers awesome rebound out of each turn.” Rockered skis just can’t compare to the energy and spring out of a turn when on a cambered ski."

Ridiculously wide performance window is what i'm looking for though. The head piste skis do have a reassuringly massive tips i've noticed. They seem like they'd be decent off piste even just looking at them. I'll head into intersport kaprun in the next few days. See what they've got.

After all it is free

There's some deals on last iteration of these https://www.speck-sports.com/en/men-s-skis-packs/20681-kaestle-fx-95-hp-the-sword-k-12-cti-pro.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIh92v1ceq5gIVibbtCh0ZcgHlEAQYAyABEgIxUvD_BwE which brings them into cost range competitive with others.

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@Powder Pete, 70/30 on piste I’d be skiing something about 80mm personally if not mid 70s. It will improve your off piste technique much more than 100mm skis for 70% piste skiing!!

Help!!

All Mountain Ski's 90 - 99mm? What width? What ski?

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