 Poster: A snowHead
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| kitenski wrote: |
@Dave of the Marmottes, I don't think anyone has recommended a pure GS/SL ski! Like @jedster says an 18m radius ski with 80mmish underfoot and wide shovel can ski most everything, and is a lot more fun on piste than a 110m wide powder ski. That includes slush, powder, bumps, ice, firm pistes etc.
I'm not sure what "instructor" organisations would want to still be on straight skis, every instructor and trainer I've skied with enjoys the right ski in the right conditions, and they often are lucky enough to live in the mountains with a decent quiver of skis!
But I think like you said, horses for courses. You need to be honest with yourself about the conditions you'll be skiing in 90% of the time and get an appropriate ski for those conditions. |
No I was just making the point that if you only ski firm pistes then a SL ski is the most logical choice and whatever you are choosing beyond that is a compromise. It seems odd to me to criticise others for where they choose to play on that compromise spectrum (and there seems to be plenty of implied criticism of punters who ski "too" wide a ski on pistes).
My point re instructor organisations is that they don't exactly push the boundaries re choice of equipment, because what is acceptable tends to be passed down from trainers to trainees and thence to the next generation i.e. they would have been unlikely to drive innovation themselves and in the 90s there were examples of some quite strong resistance to the idea of shaped skis as cheating. Oddly say the CSIA seemed to be more relaxed than BASI over choice of skis for particular courses but then the Canadian system seems to be based much more around all terrain in keeping with what is available at resorts.
I guess I don't really believe the 80mm ski hypothesis unless you are still spending the majority of your time on pistes but maybe that's because I don't have the talent ( or mass) to ski them everywhere.
Re your ski choices - really you wouldn't choose to go wider than 98 even on the deepeest most isothermic spring off piste day?
I really like the R98 and guess it would come close to a perfect one ski quiver for all conditions for me but a Redeemer or Rag or the new ASBO is way more fun in real soft spring conditions. For starters its hard to pebbledash @midgetbiker with the roost from a flat tail.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 12-10-18 12:30; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kitenski wrote: |
| But I think like you said, horses for courses. You need to be honest with yourself about the conditions you'll be skiing in 90% of the time and get an appropriate ski for those conditions. |
The reality is the vast majority of punters fall into two categories:
People who only ski piste and therefore have no need to worry about the floating ability or crud busting ability of a ski. These people are only concerned about the edging, turning and schussability of a ski.
People who ski the whole mountain. That is to say are looking to ski off piste as much as possible but ski the piste to get around or because the off piste is no good or because they are with mates or because they just feel like it. And off piste can mean proper powder, crust, crud, chopped, slush, etc. These people are concerned with skis that can broadly meet the piste criteria above but also has a degree of ability in the aforementioned of piste conditions.
* By punters I mean people who go on ski holidays - so not racers, not park skiers, not people who are heliskiing, etc.. There are specific, one job only ski's for those sort of activities.
Now, within those two categories it's just a case of finding a ski that you like because they vary in radius, camber, construction, etc.
Additional complications:
#1 - Some people talk about going "off-piste on occasion". To me this is pointless. You'll not enjoy or learn by doing it occasioally IMO. You need to get the off piste mileage to earn the right to enjoy it. I understand there is the pressure/temptation to but it is a different beast, that needs to be tamed.
#2 - if touring you weight becomes an issue
#3 - if you want to some park skier AND still ski the mountain, you need to add that compromise into selection.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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[quote="Dave of the Marmottes"]
| kitenski wrote: |
Re your ski choices - really you wouldn't choose to go wider than 98 even on the deepeest most isothermic spring off piste day?
I really like the R98 and guess it would come close to a perfect one ski quiver for all conditions for me but a Redeemer or Rag or the new ASBO is way more fun in real soft spring conditions. For starters its hard to pebbledash @midgetbiker with the roost from a flat tail. |
I found a wider ski started to hurt my knees at the end of a mixed day on/off piste, assume it's putting my force thru the knee.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| I found a wider ski started to hurt my knees at the end of a mixed day on/off piste, assume it's putting my force thru the knee. |
That's a good indicator of a boot alignment issue. Have you had that checked?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@spyderjon, yes by some bloke in a dark garage and some pieces of wood a few years back before he upgraded to a Post Office.........I don't get the issue on narrower skis
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| @spyderjon, yes by some bloke in a dark garage and some pieces of wood a few years back before he upgraded to a Post Office.........I don't get the issue on narrower skis |
Ha ha
Out of curiosity how wide are you talking about? Contemplating a wider ski and with the existing damage to my knees wondering if I shouldn’t?
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I think my alignment is correct but I can feel an impact on my knees if I use fat skis in snow where they can touch something hard at the bottom.
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@NickyJ, the wider ones were 112 underfoot
@rjs, yes that's a good point, had no pain in Japan on the 112 wide skis 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| kitenski wrote: |
@NickyJ, the wider ones were 112 underfoot
@rjs, yes that's a good point, had no pain in Japan on the 112 wide skis |
Thanks and good as I am contemplating 88’s with my current ones being 70. So shouldn’t be a proble. With a longer session on them
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I recall posting about wide skis and Sore knees, dug out the thread to find this succinct comment:
| CEM wrote: |
when you change the force vector from inside the external width of the knee (narrow ski) to outside the external width of the knee (wide skis) then you will cause a loading which the knee is not designed to withstand
everything seems fine in the soft snow but you don't ski soft snow all day every day in most European resorts so there will be time on hard pack which will cause the problems |
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Trying to think of some specific examples, and what ski I'd like to be on if I could swop in seconds:
firm corduroy : My <80mm ski
Icy pistes : : My <80mm ski
Firm Bumps: : My <80mm ski
Fresh snow or slushy bumps: either ski
Fresh snow, dumping: My Whitedot R.98s
Offpiste day: My Whitedot R.98s
Heavy, chopped on piste/Easter slush: Either ski, one carving on edge, one would surf thru
Arsing around in spring/soft snow, skiing switch, spraying slush on the kids: R98s
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I agree with all that. Most days are offpiste days with some piste though so I'll be on my R108s more often than not. Redeemers come out for proper lift served powder days. I think you and I are on the same page that if most days were mostly piste days and we wanted one ski we'd go skinnier.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Layne,
I agree with your post entirely. The reason I make this kind of comment at times though is that often people who are in your second category strongly advise people in your first category to get a ski suitable for the second category!
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[quote="jedster"]
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on the same page that if most days were mostly piste days and we wanted one ski we'd go skinnier. |
I do recall I went out for a "piste" day and took my 65mm SL skis, my mate immediately headed hard right to a nice patch of spring snow....
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