 Poster: A snowHead
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@TheGingerPrince, Yep agreed, or go off piste.....simples!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Well there's one more thing... chill out I spend more then 1/3 of year on skis, every year, yet I don't think I encounter so many problem in whole year then you obviously managed to get in one week. Yeah people behave like they do, but what the hell. Skiing is fun and take it as that. If you need to get over some slower/standing guy then you just do that... same did obviously do that annoying snowboarder, who needed to get by some slowly moving obstacle (read you) If skiing is such a stress don't bother with it, and do something else. But don't expect everyone will behave and ski the same way as you do.
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@primoz, You put it better than i could - lifts too short eh?! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Everything @thecramps has said is pretty much bang on and its a seasonal bugbear for everyone - I have never come away from a resort without someone in my group having a pop at someone for poor etiquette.
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Have to say that I'm becoming a bit more circumspect about this - for good and bad reasons I think.
Not sure if I have posted about this before but a couple of years ago I had a nasty little encounter.
It was a quiet day and despite that a snowboarder managed to go over my tails as I was rather gently cruising down blue run. He hit the skis hard enough that it took a bit of an effort to stay on my feet. I think a lot of less experienced skiers would have gone down. I was distinctly unimpressed when he carried straight on without a word of apology. I'd seen him around earlier and he was a very capable rider which made it worse in my book. Anyway I caught up with him when he stopped and offered a few suggestions in French.
Peut-etre "pardon"? Peut-etre "je suis desole"? Non?
He had one foot out of his bindings and is response was to give me a double handed shove in the chest followed up with a torrent of abuse.
I know nothing about fighting but lying in the snow with an angry man able to put the boot in seemed like a bad idea so I kicked off the one ski that was still attached and got to my feet. He was off his board completely by now and started punching me in the head. As I had a helmet and googles on it was a little ineffectual.
He seemed to keen for me to "go away" but I wasn't going to risk turning my back or bending to pick my skis up so I just held my gloves up until he ran out of steam. Well it was either that or the fact that a woman who I assume was his wife or girlfriend turned up and started yelling at him. Eventually he got on his board and left. His other half seemed keen to give him some space.
As I was composing myself I said to her "tous les jour comme ca?". She gritted her teeth.
My wife caught up with the end of the scene and after checking that I was OK gave me a bit of a dig about why I felt the need to be a policeman for other people's behaviour. I grudgingly admitted she had a bit of a point.
So two reasons for being circumspect
1. you just might come across a nutter who puts a big dampener on what is supposed to be a fun holiday
2. you might just be erring into the territory of being a bit of an officious git. Worth considering how much of it is being public spirited and how much is your own ego...
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@TheGingerPrince, Totally agree and nicely put. I've had bones broken thanks to an idiotic and drunk skier but life is too short. A bit of caring education is much easier than physical retribution!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| vipul wrote: |
| Its not always Brit’s .French snowboarder cut me up at bottom of solaise nearly killed me went right across my skis .i caught him up beside the Olympic .he just laughed at me so removed my skis and set about him he was not laughing 😂 after I finished .skiclub of GB members I was with were speechless 😶 |
It's with situations like that where it's just either idiocy, out of control or just a shitty human being, and you hope that Ski Patrol or someone suitable will step in, remove their lift pass and escort them off the mountain. If they don't know how to behave around other people trying to enjoy themselves, they shouldn't be there.
And if they can give the snowboarder a talking too as well, then that would be even better.
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@jedster, great post. (Sorry about your experience, though.)
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| philwig wrote: |
It seems patently obvious that it's a good idea to look where you're going and also to be aware of threats from others. On a board, it's a simple matter of looking over your shoulder. I understand that other people don't do that. I think you either deal with that threat, or rely on them for your safety and then come onto the internet to whine about it. |
As I said before, I was being light hearted about it.
I think you just have to be slightly self preservationist about it. When I was learning to ride a motorbike, the instructor said to me "forget about right of way. If you want to see right of way, go to a graveyard. There will be a motorcyclist in there who had right of way".
People get up and say "snowboarders have a responsibility to look over their shoulder and see me". Like people say "I'm the downhill skier and it's the uphill skier's responsibility to look out for me"... etc etc etc. Now I am not denying that thems are the rules and everything, but everyone still has an onus on themselves to be spatially aware. If there is a snowboarder next to you with his back to you then expecting him to see you there out of a sense of entitlement is a bit stupid.
Note none of this is to suggest stupid behaviour is OK but basically it's just a hostile world out there and whilst it is important to ski courteously it's also important to remember that not everyone will.
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Piste etiquette is a function of the resort's clientele...
Best in my experience have been Fiss and Arosa.
Worst L2A, 3V in UK Uni week and Ischgl in the afternoon
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I was taken out last year by one of a group of four French youths (I guess about 18 years old give or take). I was on a path and they were tanking down a slope that joined the path. Three went through in front of me, the forth wiped me out. He stopped, sussed that I spoke English (I was using some old but still in use English words) and immediately apologised, said it was his fault, helped me up and asked if I was OK. His mates sidestepped up the slope and asked if I needed any assistance or if I would like them to accompany me back to the bottom. I was fine and we departed in good humour. What could have left a nasty memory was instead replaced by feeling of admiration for these guys, if not the skiing skills of number 4, and their willingness to own up and do their best to help
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@jtr, Good to remember the better experiences too!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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it even happens in the domes. People standing chatting away at the top making others shuffle all the way around to get on the slope. Then they regather and stop mid piste part way down for another chat. It's only 200 yds long but yet some folk still stop for a natter!
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@red 27,
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| Ischgl in the afternoon |
One of the most frightening things I've ever done was the valley run in Ischgl at four in the afternoon. Sheet ice and full of pissheads. Awful. Great ski area, but I would never do that again.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Pasigal wrote: |
| If you go to a mostly French resort, you'll see very polite behaviour on the slopes. But the lift queues are an absolute disaster. I have never seen such despicable rudeness and lack of respect for my fellow human beings. |
In central europe queuing is a full contact sport.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Steilhang, Agree regards Ischgl, great ski area but dangerous pistes mid/ late pm I'm certainly in no hurry to go back. About 10 years ago a pisshead behind me on a rope tow.....came up behind me and was so legless he fell asleep on the 300m long tow and was leaning on me....took great delight on leaving him in a pile on the floor at the end of the tow as i skied off. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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I found it bad once in Spanish Pyrenees ,when we stopped edge of piste, a lot out of control skiers passing way to close for safety at speed
What we did was we adopted a defensive position, we angled ski poles upwards and pointing uphill , rather than pointing ski poles at ground. We found suddenly no more skiers, boarders , passing too close. Technically this is probably wrong to do, but my personal safety is paramount (I am of the opinion that a stationery downhill skier will come off much worse in a collision)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't remember being taught any etiquette in any official ski lesson I ever took. Luckily my first ski trip was with some very experienced mates though who had been brought up properly and drilled all these lessons into me when I was competent enough to ski with them for the first time.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As for whether there's more crappy behaviour and bad habits out there? There seem to be people who behave with a disregard for others everywhere I have been but I don't think it has got any worse. I am probably more attuned to it because I am now often skiing with my and other people's children and I am in full on parental protection mode - trying to get to the end of a week with everyone fit and healthy.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| king key wrote: |
| Maybe they just didn't realize they were causing a roadblock? |
Possibly true. But that doesn't make it OK. Awareness of other slope users is an important part of being in the mountains. |
To be fair, you get this sort of stuff in supermarkets. People stopping in the middle of the aisle, trolley sticking out at 90 degrees... It's just plain stupidity.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Steilhang, back in the 80's we used to race (ski teachers lifties) down the hill after taja apres ski and it was a lot narrower than it is now..
Last one down had to buy the biers & jager at Cafe Christine
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Lack of piste etiquette is just a reflection of society in general. A walk round any busy supermarket will highlight how oblivious many people are of their surroundings; blocking aisles and doors talking with friends, in their own little worlds.
In my experience the French don’t believe in queuing, period. Disney World Paris is a nightmare because of ignorant French people, in particular youths, who run riot. A few years ago at Christmas, some French youths thought it would be fun to keep tapping my son’s ankles as we and everyone exited the theme park. Unfortunately for them, they were picking on the captain of the school and town rugby team who also pumped iron. He turned round, smacked one in the face, decking him; he then shouted “who’s next, come on”. They all slunk away. He wasn’t old enough for me to buy him a drink, or I would have.
As some have already said, it’s just as bad in snow domes, in particular very experienced skiers and snow boarders not making allowances for beginners, of which there are many in domes.
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| Awdbugga wrote: |
| In my experience the French don’t believe in queuing, period. Disney World Paris is a nightmare because of ignorant French people |
Nice one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Disney World Paris is well... in France, right? And I really have no idea why would then be so many ignorant French people there. Weird isn't it? Maybe, but just maybe, you should get adapted to local habits and don't expect everywhere on world people behave like you are used to. As I wrote before already, if it's so much problem stay at home, I'm sure there will be lot less ignorant French people in some village in middle of UK then there's in middle of their own country. 
And yes, down here in middle of Europe we queue like we do. Contrary to what most of you feel, we don't fight in lift queues and you won't get black eye, but if your feelings are hurt if queues are not perfect, simply stay at home... or get used to this how we do things in our own countries.
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| Awdbugga wrote: |
| Disney World Paris is a nightmare because of ignorant French people, in particular youths, who run riot. |
I've been to Disneyland Paris many times. I'd say that the behaviour and respect for people around you in that theme park is better than the theme parks I've visited in the UK, Thorpe Park and Alton Towers.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@primoz, +1
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@primoz, @rob@rar, +1
@Awdbugga, I would add that as I said in my OP, most of the inconsiderate behaviour we came across last week was from obviously experienced British skiers.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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This is a weird thread. I ski alot here in Norway, and in my 18 years of skiing, I have only ever once since an incident - and that was when my son was 5 years old and fell off at the top of the t-bar. His left ski remained on the snow, and he quickly moved out of the way. An older chap came up behind him on the t-bar and started screaming at him. He quickly left the scene when I intervened. A very rare incident. The alps are a different ballgame all together. Lots of disrespect, and people who really have no clue.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@rob@rar, only ever been to euro disney once, about 6 years ago, from my experience it was the Russians (seemed Russian to me anyway) that were the problem, constantly queue jumping, i had an argument with one dad who barged his kid in front of my 4 year old daughter (who had been waiting patiently to get an autograph from one of the Disney characters). had another incident where we were in a queue for about an hour, and a Russian family just ducked under the ropes to get near the front, it was only the intervention of another Russian in the queue who managed to send them back, as they fained deafness when anyone spoke to them in English.
must admit, the only theme park we go to in this country is paultons park, and the only anti social behaviour we notice is the disregard for the no smoking signs, but i may have just been lucky in the uk, and unlucky the time i visited Disney!!
back on topic though, from my experience (mainly france) it is generally the French who push in on the lift queue, but also a lot of brits who stand in the middle of the slopes, skiers and boarders. saying that, i was at mt hemel on Saturday morning and a young instructor was stood in the middle of the piste with about 4 or 5 students stretched out in a line.
slope etiquette should start from the first ski lesson, if ski professionals do not enforce these lessons then bad habits will stay with them (like numpties who drive in the middle lane for miles upon miles, as they think only lorries are allowed in lane 1!!!!!!)
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I don't remember being taught any etiquette in any official ski lesson I ever took
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That's one thing that concerns me.
I got a little card with the first lift pass that had the FIS skier's code thing on, and as a complete n00b, the chalet girl even talked us thru them. So did the instructor on day 1.
I have seen at least 1 instructor move off without looking. And naturally, so did the entire class, who snaked off.
See that all the time particularly with one nationality who tend to go around in packs of 12, and keep regrouping all the way down the piste. The first to move off *may* look. The rest never ever will.
Brits just barge past and assume you speak English.
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just a reflection of society in general
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that pretty much. don't think it's a skiing thing. just a thing in general, made worse by people fondling their phones completely oblivious to their surroundings.
also anything that is behind you no longer exists (especially in things like traffic jams - doesn't matter how much you become frustrated by the hold up, you're the last, there's no jam behind you, and you are not causing frustration to any others behind, so you can leave as much space to car in front as you like because there are no other cars behind that want to clear the junction too before the lights change)
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You know it makes sense.
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you hope that Ski Patrol or someone suitable will step in, remove their lift pass and escort them off the mountain.
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While I've seen this happen in the US, I've never seen anything in Europe even close to being Ski Patrol. Which is a shame as I think a little policing would help and given the number of resort staff out and about I don't think would be overly difficult to arrange.
However, although I've had a few bad experiences, think the advice to move on and ignore it is the best. Nature of piste skiing is you're going to put a lot of people together in a narrow space.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So different in Whistler. Queues are actually pleasurable, very rare a chair goes not full, and there are folks making sure you slow down in learners areas etc. It's a refreshing change.
Saying that, I've had no problems on my last 2 trips to Val D, but we do pick quiet times.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I am generally pissed off by big groups on the slopes, as they are so desperate to keep up with each other, they often forget about other piste users. If I could change one thing it would be groups of 8 or more skiing together. These are often the groups that stop together and block pistes.
Unrelated comment. I have seen fist fights in the lift queue twice in la plagne at new year.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| homers double wrote: |
| To be fair, you get this sort of stuff in supermarkets. People stopping in the middle of the aisle, trolley sticking out at 90 degrees... It's just plain stupidity. |
Don't you just hate it...and they are most likely to be snowboarders and French to boot. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Lechbob wrote: |
| homers double wrote: |
| To be fair, you get this sort of stuff in supermarkets. People stopping in the middle of the aisle, trolley sticking out at 90 degrees... It's just plain stupidity. |
Don't you just hate it...and they are most likely to be snowboarders and French to boot. |
Nah, those stopped in the aisles will be skiers...
Us snowboarders are the ones sat on the stairs, usually about 4 steps down from the top.
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This seems like an obvious result of resorts having more people in them, lots more people deciding to teach themselves to ski on Youtube, and bad practice from instructors and others in charge of making the resort safe. There is also a certain amount of more people being as a result of cheap flights, cheap accommodation, and people with no idea what they are doing having a bit of a go at it because a cheap deal comes up without any idea what they are actually doing.
The question really comes up the first time somebody sues a resort for not doing enough to keep people safe from the dangerous slope users (typically those capable of generating great speed but with little control) who are effectively innocent bystanders when taken out from above.
My experience of Andorra was that this was so hazardous I wouldn't go back. Genuinely spent a lot of time, even in a relatively quiet week of the season, looking over our shoulders for the latest out of control bellend to crash into us or come within inches of downhill skiiers.
Interesting this wouldn't happen in a lot of other sports. In a lot of places you need to show some kind of qualification to rent equipment, and renting equipment to the unqualified carries liability that no rental shop would sign off. In diving most shops go further and insist on test dives before they rent equipment to you, to make sure you have some idea what you are doing, and if you were a liability wouldn't agree to let you have kit. Given the potential risks in skiing, it would make a lot of sense to me (and the ESF no doubt) to have a qualification or approval from a recognised body so you can rent kit. Obviously this can all be circumvented by buying equipment, but my experience of the kamikazes is that they can be identified by their rental gear, badly fitting £15 helmet and No Fear goggles to complete the look.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Digger the dinosaur, while I like the idea, my gut feel is that it would end up with a lot of places going bust very quickly. How many Mountain Bike hire shops would survive if you had to show your Cycling Proficiency test for a related example?
On slope policing is the only way forward in my view
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@Boris, +1 It plainly works well in North America/Canada.
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Reading some of these posts, they seem a bit more about people who sound angry because other people don't do what they want them to do, plus perhaps a large aversion to risk.
If you have strong views about what other people ought to do, then you're going to find things frustrating.
There's no increase I can see in the incident statistics at American resorts at least. If people are experiencing a personal increase, perhaps again the cause of that is closer to home than they think.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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"There's no increase I can see in the incident statistics at American resorts at least."
Id imagine the litigation culture in the US may be the factor
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| jedster wrote: |
He was off his board completely by now and started punching me in the head. As I had a helmet and googles on it was a little ineffectual.
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Finally... after all these years... a thread which proves that wearing a helmet will protect you from injury while skiing!
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FAQ
