 Poster: A snowHead
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skimum,
Well - we joined the skimum club today!
We bought new skis last April and, after 5 weeks skiing on them had ripped the bases a bit - particularly in January this year in 3 weeks in the 3 Valleys, where we encountered a few stones.
We had them serviced at home prior to our latest trip, by someone who had done them before and who did a good job.
All went well this morning on our first few runs in a foot of powder in Meribel. However, once we got on piste after lunch neither of us could do a thing on the skis. And by that I mean that we were completely unable to initiate anything like a turn - & when we did it felt like the skis were diverging and stuck in breakable crust!
I almost wiped out 2 beginners (on a blue run to Mottaret) at very low speed - such was my inability to control my seemingly-possessed skis! 
We compared notes and both Mrs B & I were experiencing the same thing, so we decided to try low speed snow plough turns to see how the skis performed. Turns (or anything resembling skiing... ) proved impossible and I felt like crying in frustration. We then tried straight running (in a plough) and tried to glide & brake i.e. wide plough to narrow, and back again. That also proved impossible.
I texted the ski servicer in the UK and described the problem. To his credit, he rang me straight away & was very concerned. He told me that "the edges are probably sharper than you are used to but try banging a few carved turns in and you should be ok." In other words he thought I was trying skiddy turns.. (which I most certainly wasn't).
He then said, failing that, try blunting the edges at tip and tail with a stone, then blunt the edges less so (than tip & tail) underfoot "to detune them."
So off I went to find a rock....
After working up a sweat by "detuning" 8 "edges" (ie tip & tail x 2 pairs of skis) we were no further forward and even more frustrated, wondering "Is it us?" & "Are we so incompetent that we can't handle skis with sharp edges?" (despite skiing for 30 years and averaging 60-70 days a season for the last 10 years. Oh. & we think we can recognise a carved turn when we see one).
However, as we were simply unable to ski any run (no matter how gentle) to get home we decided on calling at a ski shop in Mottaret for help.
The ski technician there could not have been more helpful. When he looked at the edges he said, "Ah. One ski goes one way & one the other. Too sharp."
He then took a stone (that he called "gum" in French) and rubbed it lightly, but vigorously, up and down each edge, from tip to tail, saying "this is necessary each service." We felt relieved & he sent us on our way, inviting us to call back if all was not ok (& all at no charge).
One blue run later & we were 2 very happy campers! All was ok and our skis performed brilliantly!  Turn initiation became easy again, the edge grip was fantastic and high speed carving was like skiing on train tracks!
So, is it necessary for us to ski like racers (& ski aggressively at race speeds) to ski without detuned edges, even though we can usually carve high speeds turns on steep hardpack? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sounds like the hanging burr left from sharpening the side edge was not fully removed which makes the ski grabby/hooky. This is a common issue often associated with high volume machine servicing but it's also easy for a hand tuner to get distracted and miss it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@spyderjon, I thought the problem is that they were not grabby at all!
I've never had to detune any of my skis... sl, gs, tourers, all mountains (tip and tail rockers), massively wide tip rockers.
So I'd say IME it is not necessary to detune them.
Then again, I don't really tune them much either... just run a massive file over them whilst gripping them in my legs.
Although the local shop take care of them and service them up after a deep gouge or for a quick hot-wax every now and then.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I had a couple of friends this season having issues after a service.
Both of them remarked that the skiis felt very were different, and they could barely use them.
In both cases they were happier the following day, and then fine 3 days later.
I suspect that in one of these cases some of the issues were psychological as well as physical.
They felt different, therefore there must be something wrong.
It is possible that they had been tuned, where previously they were not, the user may have been more / less tired, the snow was wetter / dryer the day following the service, the reaction with the wax combined with a different edge feel and human factors may made them feel alien.
( though as the Op has stated, there does certainly seem something funky in their particular case - I would always take rockered over twisted  ).
I had something similar last year when I got a new rear tyre on my motorbike.
The handling was really bad ( no actually it was just different, and I had subconsciously adapted my riding style and muscle memory to the previous set up), I could barely corner, and at slow speed it was dreadful weaving between the Geneva traffic. I was so going back to the shop to complain the next day, that they had ruined my bike.
The next day I was busy, and over the course of 48 hours I got used to the new feel, and then I came to positively love the new handling. Apart from scrubbing in the new rear, nothing was different from when I picked it up. I had just gotten used to the new turn-in dynamics and adapted my riding style.
I service my own skis, so I expect funky results, but I am crap at waxing snowboards, so normally get them serviced professionally.
It is amazing how different a board can feel after a service though.
Last year I had it done twice at Coq and Bull in Morzine, and afterwards it felt ok - like how it was a few days earlier.
This year I took it to the Woods, they did it by hand, and when I got it back it felt like new.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| flangesax wrote: |
| @spyderjon, I thought the problem is that they were not grabby at all |
A residual hanging burr can also just lock the ski in to the snow making a turn very difficult, hence "And by that I mean that we were completely unable to initiate anything like a turn - & when we did it felt like the skis were diverging and stuck in breakable crust!"
If tuned properly modern shaped skis don't need detune - but detune is often used by shops that don't have the knowledge or won't spend the time to add a tad more base edge angle at the contact points if required.
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Interesting replies/comments. Thank you.
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| WindOfChange wrote: |
...
Last year I had it done twice at Coq and Bull in Morzine, and afterwards it felt ok - like how it was a few days earlier.
This year I took it to the Woods, they did it by hand, and when I got it back it felt like new. |
I think done by hand it's a much better job.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hi skimum,
Glad you got them sorted! This might sound like a cheeky response, but it's really worth learning to wax and edge your own skis if you have the time. Someone could teach you the basics in about an hour. For sharpening just start gentle and work your way up as you get more confident and learn what you like. Waxing can always be re-done if you're not happy. Then you're never in doubt and it will save you tonns of ££.
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| WindOfChange wrote: |
...
I had something similar last year when I got a new rear tyre on my motorbike.
The handling was really bad ( no actually it was just different, and I had subconsciously adapted my riding style and muscle memory to the previous set up), I could barely corner, and at slow speed it was dreadful weaving between the Geneva traffic. I was so going back to the shop to complain the next day, that they had ruined my bike.
The next day I was busy, and over the course of 48 hours I got used to the new feel, and then I came to positively love the new handling. Apart from scrubbing in the new rear, nothing was different from when I picked it up..... |
release compound will do that for ya every time. New front is worse. I learned the hard way. The insurance co told me they didn't usually write off bikes with 4 miles on the clock 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Then you're never in doubt and it will save you tonns of ££.
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Just wondering how much people generally pay for a ski service. We take ours to a local council run outdoor centre where the resident ski wizard does an excellent job (by hand). It's supposed to be £16 for an edge and wax but as we're regular customers we get free base repairs chucked in for that price too when required. At that price it's not worth doing it myself!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
£16 for an edge and wax
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This is one reason why I DIY. My daughter's race skis get done 2-3 times a month, she also has twin tips and a snowboard. The rest of us do about 3 weeks on snow a year. Even with the small fortune I spend with Jon I still save enough for at least one trip a year 
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@musher, fair enough. I do 4 trips a year (and a few days here and there in Scotland) and get my skis done after each trip. So about £64/year for me is peanuts to keep them in tip top condition. In your shoes I'd probably think differently.
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You know it makes sense.
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depends how you cost your own hourly rate
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I think it's more down to doing it how you like, rather than trusting a stranger. I'd never let some random tuner in a french resort near my skis. Of course if you have someone local you trust, thats a different story
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Poster: A snowHead
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| andyrew wrote: |
| depends how you cost your own hourly rate |
True, if I worked it out that way it would be a very bad deal...even just taking into account the equipment it'll take me a while to 'pay off'. But there's two things for me, firstly I've got two pairs of skis and want more (n+1 rule). Secondly, I like the idea of learning how to do it well and knowing for sure that they're serviced how I like them. Thirdly, I can really put the effort in. Finally, I actually quite enjoy tuning them. I'm not quick, or particularly good at it, but it's nice to spend a Sunday afternoon in the spare room, ski movie on the xBox, beer in hand and just quietly work away. I've found that I don't do it all in one go either, I might do the edges of a set one weekend, then do a hot wax scrape and a wax. Then the next weekend have a look at the edges for the others. It might sound perverse but it's actually a nice bit of therapy. Plus I can go on a trip knowing that my skis are ready
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