 Poster: A snowHead
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If they weren't such an awful fashion disaster, then a bum bag / 'fanny pack' would be a far better option than a rucksack for most skiers.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| DannySimpson wrote: |
@Tom Doc, things I'll do for some white stuff...
Oh, wait... |
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I only use a rucksack off piste (hard to fit a shovel in a pocket) or occssionally at races to transport competitors' outer clothing down. I don't think wearing one is much of a safety issue but I prefer to do without. A rucksack seems overkill for wallet, phone, keys and maybe a sunstick. After all I have wallet, keys and phone in the office without needing a rucksack.....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| If they weren't such an awful fashion disaster, then a bum bag / 'fanny pack' would be a far better option than a rucksack for most skiers. |
I couldn't care less about fashion. I used to wear one skiing, touring, cycling... and a lot of other activities.
Now I use a hydration pack that has some extra space for carrying a spare sweater or such. Still slim enough to be worn INSIDE my jacket on really cold days to keep the water from freezing.
I still use pockets liberally. So not too much that needs to go into the hydration pack.
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@abc, I was about to ask why you need a hydration pack, but perhaps a better question is 'how much sloe gin does it take?'
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I find a 6-8oz metal hydration system works very well 
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Skied for the first time without one a couple of days while I was away last week, just carried water in my pocket. Coped fine but didn't really notice any difference to my skiing and there were a few times when I wished I'd had something I usually have in my bag (hat, sunglasses, more food)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@foxtrotzulu, the answer to your question is "how often do you stop for water?"
I usually only make 1 stop a day, for lunch. That's not enough water intake. So there's a need to carry something, like a water bottle as the OP does. I found THAT too bulky and prefer to carry a low profile hydration pack instead. The side benefit being extra carrying capacity.
(I know you were probably joking, but there's actually method in my madness)
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| abc wrote: |
@foxtrotzulu, the answer to your question is "how often do you stop for water?"
I usually only make 1 stop a day, for lunch. That's not enough water intake. So there's a need to carry something, like a water bottle as the OP does. I found THAT too bulky and prefer to carry a low profile hydration pack instead. The side benefit being extra carrying capacity.
(I know you were probably joking, but there's actually method in my madness) |
How often do I stop for water? Not at all. We might stop for a hot chocolate mid-morning, wine with lunch, and that's it. I'm not sure how you can say "That's not enough" when that's precisely what loads of people do and they don't seem to have died of dehydration yet. When you look at the average skier in the Alps, only about 10% carry rucksacks. How many of the others carry a water bottle? No idea, but from looking at friends I ski with I'd suggest very, very few. How often have I seen people on lifts get a bottle out of their pocket? Can't remember any incidences at all. Much of it depends how you ski. Personally, I don't usually break into a sweat when I ski and the temps are cold enough that water consumption is pretty low anyway. Not having a go at you, but as a nation we seem to have become addicted to carrying a water bottle everywhere we go. It really isn't necessary.
Actually, I do carry a hip flask and it does have sloe gin in it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I get thirsty quicker than you then.
I get up from my desk to get a drink about 2-3 times during a typical day in the office. Skiing, I like to drink more, albeit not necessary more often. Basically, I'd prefer to go no more than 2 hrs between a good size drink, 1 1/2 hr even better. That translate to at least one extra stop in the morning and one in the afternoon.
On days I don't stop to drink (I don't ALWAYS carry water), I end up drinking like a fish at the end of the day, and all through evening too. So I can tell I was slightly dehydrated, even though I have no symptoms of illness.
I don't sweat all that much. I think it's from breathing the dry mountain air.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| abc wrote: |
I get thirsty quicker than you then.
I get up from my desk to get a drink about 2-3 times during a typical day in the office. Skiing, I like to drink more, albeit not necessary more often. Basically, I'd prefer to go no more than 2 hrs between a good size drink, 1 1/2 hr even better. That translate to at least one extra stop in the morning and one in the afternoon.
On days I don't stop to drink (I don't ALWAYS carry water), I end up drinking like a fish at the end of the day, and all through evening too. So I can tell I was slightly dehydrated, even though I have no symptoms of illness.
I don't sweat all that much. I think it's from breathing the dry mountain air. |
Yes, you do seem to get thirsty quicker than me! I do find I drink more in a formal office environment. Partly because it's something to do during meetings. One just seems to have a glass of water in front of you and sip it all day long. Working from home I'll drink less. Ironically, I suspect that many people who ski with bottles of water or hydration packs spend half their time dropping into mountain restaurants for a pee (where they could got themselves a glass of water anyway) which they don't need because they have hydration packs. 
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I ski with a 2l hydration pack as I get very thirsty on the mountain. Depending on the weather I sometimes drink it all. Often I don't stop other than at lunch. I hardly notice the pack on my back and carry very little else in it.
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You know it makes sense.
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i know your pain! i had whiplash too in my early days. if youre taking a rucksack out with you obviously make sure you have essentials but try to keep packing to a minimum, because if that weight is a lot then you could possibly be facing the same issue again at some point.
your other option is to go to your nearest decathlon and look at their rucksacks.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@foxtrotzulu, I can drink a litre and a half in a day and only pee once (sometimes not at all). For the most part the fluid is used by my body, which makes sense as its doing exercise. I wouldn't go for a bike ride or play football without drinking water, why should skiing all day be any different?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
I can drink a litre and a half in a day and only pee once (sometimes not at all). For the most part the fluid is used by my body, which makes sense as its doing exercise. I wouldn't go for a bike ride or play football without drinking water, why should skiing all day be any different?
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I get really sweaty when I run or cycle but downhill skiing just isn't very demanding on heart and lungs if you have reasonable technique so I don't need to drink much. Ski touring is different! I often carry some water for the kids just because they seem to get suddenly thirsty and I don't always want to head to the bar!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| SnoodyMcFlude wrote: |
| @foxtrotzulu, I can drink a litre and a half in a day and only pee once (sometimes not at all). For the most part the fluid is used by my body, which makes sense as its doing exercise. I wouldn't go for a bike ride or play football without drinking water, why should skiing all day be any different? |
For most of us there is minimal exertion involved in skiing. Not that were brilliant, but we just use lifts up and gravity down. Football and bike riding involve massively higher exertion so I understand why people might like to take some water along. But..... Don't forget that until about 1985(?) few people habitually carried water on a bike ride and all you had during a football match was 1/4 of an orange at half-time. The current fashion for water to be carried on every time play stops is a touch excessive.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| For most of us there is minimal exertion involved in skiing. |
It's not just down to exertion though, you should be hydrating anyway. People didn't used to appreciate this, which is why the sports people of today are considerable fitter than 30 years ago. It's not a 'fashion' it's something which the body requires.
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| Quote: |
It's not just down to exertion though, you should be hydrating anyway. People didn't used to appreciate this, which is why the sports people of today are considerable fitter than 30 years ago. It's not a 'fashion' it's something which the body requires.
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many factors behind superior performance of sports people not just hydaration
body adapts to hydration - more you drink the more you need. I've met mountaineers who drink very little because they don't want their bodies to require them to carry lots of heavy water around.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In all honesty, I think it's true that most of us don't drink quite as much as we should - in much the same way that most of us don't eat as much fruit and veg as we should. Having said that i really don't believe that the typical holiday skier needs to carry additional water. (Nor do they need to carry an emergency carrot with them) Water at breakfast, lunch and tea-time should be more than sufficient for most of us. I think there may be something in the suggestion that we become habituated to a certain level of water consumption. On a typical day in the office if I didn't have a drink between waking up and about 4pm I doubt I would be more than mildly thirsty at the end of it. Others I know feel the need to carry a bottle of water with them for a 30 minute car/tube journey.
@SnoodyMcFlude,
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It's not just down to exertion though, you should be hydrating anyway. People didn't used to appreciate this, which is why the sports people of today are considerable fitter than 30 years ago. It's not a 'fashion' it's something which the body requires. |
Obviously the body requires water (or beer), but that isn't the same as saying it requires it every 20 minutes. As Jedster says, you really can't attribute the fitness of today's athletes to the fact that they drink more water.
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I ski with a Dakine Heli Pro 2 rucksack 99% of the time. I consume a lot of water while on the mountain using a hydratiion pack inside the bag. I'm also normally skiing with my 8 year old so carry spare clothes, gloves, googles, sunglasses, snacks etc, etc. I never notice the bag on my back. My son also has a very small kids size Camelbak as he too goes through a lot of water. It must run in the family.
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@foxtrotzulu, I didn't mean rob attribute the fitness level to water, I was saying that we're more aware of what the body needs than people were in the 80s which, as a whole, means they're fitter 
Also I never said that you need it every 20 minutes, but if I'm skiing from 9 until lunch at 1 then I'm going to want some water a couple of times before I stop. I can't believe that there is opposition to me wanting to drink a litre and a half of water :S
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Ironically, I suspect that many people who ski with bottles of water or hydration packs spend half their time dropping into mountain restaurants for a pee (where they could got themselves a glass of water anyway) which they don't need because they have hydration packs. |
Rather than "suspecting" what other people do, you should simply ask yourself.
Are you peeing at lunch? If you do, you probably have "enough" water in your body. But if drinking more doesn't make you want to pee more often, it may mean your body could use more water but you just didn't give it! (there's also the complication that if you drink a lot during lunch, you may feel the need to pee soon after, even though your body may only need the water later in the day)
Obviously, if you don't feel the need to pee even at lunch, you're definitely NOT having enough water in your body.
That's why I carry a hydration pack. I knew my body needs more than I can drink (and hold) in one shot.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I got myself an Ortovox 20l pack. Had one day skiing with it and it`s great. Not that big but i still took it off on the chairlift.
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I usually ski with a backpack for various reasons, though generally water is not one of my over riding concerns, I usually have some and drink a little at lunch.
Hydration ain't rocket science though you're either thirsty or not. If you are you need a drink and if you're not you don't. Whether you choose to carry the drink with you or buy it depends on availability of restaurants and inclination for going into them. Sometimes I use them quite often I picnic, each to their own surely?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| T Bar wrote: |
| Hydration ain't rocket science though you're either thirsty or not. If you are you need a drink and if you're not you don't. |
Some might argue it is (rocket science).
Being thirsty isn't always correlates with the body needs hydration. Most of the time, it is (correlated) but not all the time.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@abc,
For years the sports drinks industry perpetrated dodgy research saying you needed hydration before you were thirsty. This has subsequently shown to be a myth (but is still frequently repeated). Overhydration in marathon running has demonstrably killed many people from drinking unnecessary fluids. Dehydration has not.
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@T Bar, while this might work for normal people, who don't care about their performance, sport drinks are mainly meant for athletes, so most researches are done concerning sports performance. And dehydration is way more serious problem then overhydration. You might not die from dehydration (at least not that fast), but your performance is definitely lowered a lot. But then again, it takes some serious serious effort to die from overhydration too  So once you get thirsty your performance is lowered so much already, that it's basically useless to even bother racing/training anymore before you get normally hydrated again. And that doesn't take glass of water and 2min stop, but more like day or two process to get back to normal level again.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Steve146 wrote: |
Hi all,
Last year i suffered a whiplash injury which finished my ski holiday early, I had a nasty fall and landed on my back, head pointing down the slope. As I was wearing a rucksack, when I landed my head jerked back over the rucksack causing the whiplash. Although the rucksack probably provided some cushioning for my back, don't think I would have got whiplash had I not been wearing it. Will shortly heading off for my first skiing since so wanted to know if it is generally considered sensible or not to wear a rucksack while skiing or was I just unlucky?!
Thanks! |
Where else would I put my medical kit, spare gloves, shovel and probe etc?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Let's be realistic here. For most recreational skiers dehydration is unlikely to be an issue. I'm not remotely suggesting that drinking loads of water is a bad thing, just that drinking at breakfast, lunch and tea is likely to be more than enough for most. By all means carry a rucksack with water if you want, but you aren't going to come to any harm if you don't. |
Not to be too crude, but the colour of my pee when I've drunk 1.5l of water (plus whatever at breakfast/lunch/dinner) clearly shows that I'm dehydrated after a day of skiing. I don't believe that I'm alone in this.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Steve146, if you were not wearing the rucksack would you have suffered whiplash due to the fall anyway? I have fallen and bashed the back of my head a couple of times, and a whiplash type injury occurred. I decided that a helmet was more important than whether or not I was wearing a rucksack.
I have a couple of rucksacks I sometimes wear on slopes. The reason I carry a rucksack mainly, is because I would like to take my boots off at some point and walk either wearing climbing boots or trainers. This will be either because it is some distance to the first lift, and icy on the way, so walking in ski boots is dangerous. The other reason is because I will be climbing up a steep path to some off piste area, therefore I need a rucksack to attach my skis to and to carry ski boots when wearing climbing boots.
The smaller rucksack is just a day pack, and cannot carry boots or skis. The larger rucksack has a plastic moulded back support, which means if you fall on your back on any rocks there is no danger of spinal damage (apart from whiplash).
Perhaps the solution is to extend the back of your ski helmet so that it covers the top of your rucksack?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't wear one myself but my mum used to and one time fell landing on the camera stashed inside, resulted in her breaking her back, 2 weeks in hospital flat out, including flying back in that position, etc.!
I think she was very unlucky and yes cameras were bigger then but be careful what you carry!
I thought the 'eat snow' bit of snowheads was about hydration? A natural occurrence unless your not trying hard enough 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| primoz wrote: |
| @T Bar, while this might work for normal people, who don't care about their performance, sport drinks are mainly meant for athletes, so most researches are done concerning sports performance. And dehydration is way more serious problem then overhydration. You might not die from dehydration (at least not that fast), but your performance is definitely lowered a lot. But then again, it takes some serious serious effort to die from overhydration too So once you get thirsty your performance is lowered so much already, that it's basically useless to even bother racing/training anymore before you get normally hydrated again. And that doesn't take glass of water and 2min stop, but more like day or two process to get back to normal level again. |
Firstly to make money sport drinks are primarily aimed at the public.
Secondly dehydration in sport from a health point of view is not immediately more dangerous than overhydration. Exercise induced water loss is normal and well tolerated. Exercise associated hyponatraemia is occasionally fatal and does not require masses of fluid. Just too much in susceptible people when exercising.
Degradation of performance secondary to dehydration is controversial and not proven. At an elite level long distance runners lose weight ie are dehydrated at the finish of a run compared with the start. If their performance was better with fluids these fluids are available to them and they should not be dehydrated at the end if their performance could be improved by drinking more.
Most studies showing positive results of hydration have been poorly blinded and controlled. When dehydrated cyclists have been blinded to whether they have been getting IV fluids or not ie divided into true rehydration and sham rehydration there has been no difference in performance.
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And there's me thinking this thread was about rucksacks lol
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| Quote: |
Degradation of performance secondary to dehydration is controversial and not proven. At an elite level long distance runners lose weight ie are dehydrated at the finish of a run compared with the start. If their performance was better with fluids these fluids are available to them and they should not be dehydrated at the end if their performance could be improved by drinking more.
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Almost ALL of sporting performance enhancement, be it training, nutrition, equipment, are "unproven" in a scientific sense. Never double blinded, rarely peer reviewed. Yet they're accepted as such because? The athletes employing the technique win, and win again! And if more of their peer (athletes/coaches) FELT it may be helpful, they're the ones who volunteer to try it! Typically, a consensus developed to regard certain technique as "useful" and become wide spread.
Why do you ski a certain way? Because your instructor or your mate said so! Do you know such technique has been scientifically proven? I doubt it.
Some of those consensus turned out to be wrong, because they confused factors that were poorly controlled. Still, as experience goes, every one of us chooses what conventional wisdom we wish to follow BEFORE it's scientifically proven.
So if you don't want to drink because it hadn't been scientifically proven via double-blinded tests, you're free to do so. But to insist there's absolutely no merit to it is equally unscientific.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@abc,
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Almost ALL of sporting performance enhancement, be it training, nutrition, equipment, are "unproven" in a scientific sense. Never double blinded, rarely peer reviewed. Yet they're accepted as such because? The athletes employing the technique win, and win again! And if more of their peer (athletes/coaches) FELT it may be helpful, they're the ones who volunteer to try it! Typically, a consensus developed to regard certain technique as "useful" and become wide spread.
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Which is precisely why I pointed out that far from being fully hydrated elite athletes are dehydrated sometimes considerably so at the end of elite races and do not take on excess water.
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My Dakine Helipro has an inbuilt back protector and when I don't wear it I do feel more vulnerable. I don't carry much, spare gloves and goggles, fleece, energy bar. If I'm going off piste I add shovel and probes (I know some will say I should always have them, but I exercise my free will ).
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