 Poster: A snowHead
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I prefer the independence of DIY but often you can get great deals with TOs. Ski transfers can cost a fortune.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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For me on my own then TO seems to have been the best option, but I always value low cost over quality of accommodation 
@mayr, the big TOs often offer 2 for 1 promotions too and their pass/equipment combo isn't really that different. I was pricing up a trip to La Tania the other day and seem to remember there was no difference in either getting my pass/skis from Crystal or getting them independently myself. There's a lot of hate on sH about operators, but I do tend to find it comes from people that proudly state things like "I haven't used a TO since 1999" or "It's been 6 years since I used a TO".
Have to admit that I'd be different if I was booking a trip for 3+ people, at that point the savings become enough to be able to sort flights and hire a car yourself.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The worst thing about TOs by a mile is the early ridiculous departure times to return home. I'm not a big fan of the selling on the coach but like anything there are good and bad reps. Last year in Austria, I was with a non-skier so the ski guiding allowed me the opportunity to meet people easily and bumped into the reps in the bar who were chilled and friendly. It's different if you are a family and can drive, but I don't drive.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| SnoodyMcFlude wrote: |
For me on my own then TO seems to have been the best option, but I always value low cost over quality of accommodation
@mayr, the big TOs often offer 2 for 1 promotions too and their pass/equipment combo isn't really that different. I was pricing up a trip to La Tania the other day and seem to remember there was no difference in either getting my pass/skis from Crystal or getting them independently myself. There's a lot of hate on sH about operators, but I do tend to find it comes from people that proudly state things like "I haven't used a TO since 1999" or "It's been 6 years since I used a TO".
Have to admit that I'd be different if I was booking a trip for 3+ people, at that point the savings become enough to be able to sort flights and hire a car yourself. |
Snoody, I often travel on my own and found DIY to be a much cheaper option, especially if you use trains (not necessarily in France) for the airport to resort transfer. The single supplement is the tour ops' killer; many hotels in Swisserland and Austria have single rooms at no extra supplement.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I use TO's where a DIY transfer is tricky
I was a 'guest' of Inghams in Arraba last year and to be honest, I liked it...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Funny thing is... in all the years of using TOs (as well as going DIY), I've never felt herded by anyone. If I sort out my own ski hire, lift pass or lessons - a polite "we're sorted thanks" is never met with a rude reply by the rep. I've never felt pressured in to taking part/buying an activity - although we're always keen to find out if there is a quiz one night.
I also like early flights out, and early ones back. I'd much rather be in resort early so I can get lunch, get stuff sorted and maybe have a ski as soon as we get there. Once we're packed to come home, I'm happy to be on my way home - of course this changes if flights home are really late - means an extra ski before heading to the airport.
I tend to shop about and price up both options. For three of us sharing a hotel room/apartment the difference in price is usually very little for us when comparing DIY and TO.
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@red 27, the reps we had in Arabba with Inghams a few years ago were excellent (resort manager and rep were a couple in their 30s). We went on their Hidden Valley trip. The chap had really done his research and knew a lot about the history of the area.
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Done both flavours in the last 4 years and would say that peak times (e.g. Feb half term), it was cheaper doing DIY. Not by much though. One half term 2 years ago, got a chalet in La Plagne for £550 each which included flights and transfers. Off peak, TOs win (generally) if you can get an offer (last minute or cheap multiple lift passes). Fair point from madlondoner regarding return departure times from the resort but if you have a lunchtime flight or earlier, you're not going to get any skiing done on the last day anyway. Not been unlucky enough to be on a coach and waiting ages for passengers from a later flight - there's always a first time. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
If I hit pam_w's snowmaggedon or suffer a delayed flight, I'll pull out my credit card and buy my way out of the problem
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you couldn't buy your way out of snowmageddon, but then the people with TOs weren't necessarily any better off. My son was cooking in a chalet in Courchevel 1850 and had to get there that Saturday. I drove him down to Albertville very early on empty roads, in the beginning of the heavy snow. There was a lot of snow on the roads in Albertville (which were still pretty empty) and it was clear that driving into the Tarentaise would be silly. So we had breakfast in Albertville and I left him to get a train to Moutiers and headed straight back up, being stopped by gendarmes to put chains on on the climb out of Albertville up the Doron valley. I crawled up the road to Les Saisies in light traffic and very heavy snow, grateful for the chains. The traffic down was locked solid for miles. But by that time anybody still trying to get down from the resort was several hours too late.
My son got an expensive taxi ride up to Courchevel when local taxi drivers were still able to find a way through. Later, they couldn't. My son's clients didn't get there till Sunday morning breakfast time, having spent the whole night stuck on the road in two taxis. Even if they'd tried waving their credit cards for a helicopter they wouldn't have got up the hill any quicker.
I was once stuck on an island resort in the Pacific in weather bad enough that the usual resort boat back to the mainland (and therefore the airport) couldn't leave for two days. A couple of American tourists just couldn't believe that waving their credit cards availed them nothing. Their frustration and impotence was comical to see. 
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@pam w, I didn't mean that I could wave my credit card to procure a clear road in snowmageddon. I meant that if I landed in Geneva in the middle of a blizzard, I'd shell out the cash to hole up in a local hotel until the storm had blown over. If only 5* hotels had vacancies, I'd still be quids in compared with a TO trip.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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There are really good logistical and money arguments on both sides. Over the years we have done probably every combination of travel and accommodation from fully looked after by a TO to driving and booking everything independently.
These days the independent option suits us best and by leaving on a Friday and returning on the Sunday we get 8 days skiing. When we had young children we much preferred to use a TO who took on the responsibility of getting us there and back. The TOs that we used did pre-sell lift passes, ski hire, toboggan nights etc. but there was never any pressure to buy. The fact that the TO got a discount for the lift passes was irrelevant to me as I paid the same price and possibly if the TO hadn't got that discount then the holiday would have been £20 dearer.
One year the TO option really paid off for us when Gatwick had problems with snow. TO charter flights back from Geneva were getting away, although very late and some flying to alternate home airports, scheduled flights were just being cancelled with passengers being turned away and told to transfer on to the next available flight with some people having to wait until the next day for a flight. Another year our booked resort had no snow so the TO transferred us to LDA where the snow was still pretty rubbish but at least we got some skiing done on the glacier. On another occasion the transfer bus from the resort was delayed by couple of hours so the TO held their charter flight for the 30+ people on the coach.
Will we use a TO again? Probably, but it will be because we will be going to an unfamiliar country, in the meantime we will continue to drive.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Obviously all our guests, and we've met plenty of them over the years - families, groups, couples and single travellers - prefer to do it DIY. Some are forward-thinking enough to book their accommodation a year or more in advance, and their flights as soon as they are released; others leave it all until late and take pot luck. The choice between TO packages and DIY must depend to some extent on the choice and type of resort, and the availability (to and in the chosen resort) of reasonably-priced flights, transfers, accommodation, social outlets and places to eat. There are many ski resorts that I've stayed in over the years, where I would not dream of advising DIY over TO - the incidental costs would be prohibitively high and/or the resort facilities are too limited. A package, including catered accommodation, would be a must. However there are many other resorts where the DIY approach makes perfect sense and may be far preferable.
Here in Saalbach (statistically the second most visited ski resort in the world - http://www.isiaski.org/download/20140517_ISIA_Vuokatti_1b_presentation_vanat.pdf ), the DIY approach is particularly prevalent. There are numerous expensive 4 star hotels in the village centre, most of them featured in glossy TO brochures, but the cheaper accommodation (as is generally the norm in Austria) is also of a good standard and, provided that the location is carefully chosen, unlikely to disappoint. There is a wide choice of relatively inexpensive, easy to find/book, self-catering, B&B and 3 star catered accommodation. (For those who really need them, some of the expensive hotels' facilities (e.g. swimming pools and wellness suites) can still be used, on payment of a small fee, by non-residents). There are also many excellent, reasonably-priced restaurants in the village, as well as bar food and take-away options, and some people prefer the variety and choice that this gives them over the same hotel restaurant every evening. Thanks to the strong pound, dining out has become considerably cheaper than in the UK. The supermarkets, of which there are several, are also generally cheaper than in the UK (e.g. a decent bottle of wine will be 2 - 3 euros, but probably 20 euros in an hotel).
For DIY-ers flights to Salzburg are easily booked with the usual budget airlines, and the increased competition and low oil prices means that they can be quite cheap (Birmingham flights to Salzburg on the Saturday before Christmas were £31 when I booked them a couple of months ago). In contrast to resorts such as Val d'Isere and Zermatt (to pluck two examples out of the air), the transfer takes little more than an hour, and there is an easily pre-bookable, reliable shuttle service that runs 8 times a day, every day of the year between the airport and the resort - door to door. Private transfers for larger parties can be booked through the same website (all in English). The roads tend to be good and well-maintained/cleared, and many lower altitude resorts (they tend to be lower in Austria without sacrificing snow reliability) can be accessed without resorting to the sort of winding mountain roads that might be encountered in the higher resorts of the western Alps.
With the increase in British accommodation providers (there must be hundreds buying apartments or chalets in ski resorts every year - often providing such things as satellite TV with English channels, DVD players, video libraries and games - invaluable when bad weather stops the skiing), it isn't difficult for those planning a DIY trip to obtain advice on all the essentials. I must spend hours every week, dishing out advice to people on flights, transfers, location of accommodation, resort facilities, hire of equipment, lift passes, ski-schools, etc. However, as has been pointed out above, only the flights, accommodation and transfers really need forward planning and pre-booking. The rest can be sorted out on arrival - often with the help of the accommodation provider.
The apres-ski culture of the country can also affect the decision. Here in Saalbach, as well as many other Austrian resorts, DIY holiday-makers can go out every night, meet people from all over Europe, as well as the UK, and have a party if so inclined - or have fun participating in a wide range of activities and entertainments - night skiing, tobogganing, sleigh rides, ten-pin bowling, snowmobile touring, ice-karting, Tirolean evenings, live music, schnapps-tasting...... From my experience of ski holidays in France or Switzerland, particularly in quiet villages or purpose-built resorts, I would always advise that the ready-made social setting and dinner-party atmosphere of a TO-operated catered chalet may well be preferable to any other way of doing it - unless peaceful solitude is desired!
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Over the years I have experience of TO & DIY and after 2 consecutive years of TO at Feb half term (wallet busting!) I am going back to DIY. Taking control of and being responsible for your own travel arrangements is a good discipline and leads to a better appreciation of what the TO's are managing. It's not difficult but it's dealing with the numbers that creates most problems I would have thought.
The worst problem I had to deal with was being stranded with the family by a cancelled train at Landeck train station on the way to Zurich airport. One taxi and €400 later we were catching our flight home. The insurance coughed up eventually so we were not out of pocket and proving that you can overcome most problems with time and money. Not the same as being stuck I your car but I like to think we could overcome that with some initiative.
We will drive this year for the first time in about 15 years inspired by a 22 hour door to door journey last year on a TO trip. We still joke about the tiresome people we had to share a coach with last year but at the time I was working very hard to stay cool and keep the chimp in its box.
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You know it makes sense.
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Not the same as being stuck I your car but I like to think we could overcome that with some initiative.
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That problem is also easily overcome, provided that you have adequate cancellation and curtailment or breakdown insurance, which will cover the resultant costs.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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We did a TO trip with 8 days skiing to Valmeinier with Snowcoach. It was very cheap - booked at the ski show - we had free insurance for everybody and 6 kids shared a kind of bunk room with free equipment hire. They loved it, needless to say, and whilst the equipment wasn't great, kids don't seem to care. DIY-ing that trip would probably have cost twice as much.
To me, the planning (and even the trouble shooting) which goes with DIY holidays is part of the enjoyment. And the internet makes it simple enough. I did my trip to Norway DIY, booking accommodation and internal travel (two cheap hotels found on Lonely Planet, one night sleeper on a train and 8 days on a yacht) separately after flying to Oslo. But a lot of friends were surprised and spoke in awe of this, as though I had set off to hitch hike to Bangalore! It's particularly easy in places where most people speak stupendously good English though having to sort out a breakdown truck in French adds to the frisson of excitement.  I haven't been on any kind of package holiday for 20 years.
A proper adventurous traveller would have bareboat chartered, of course! Not too practical in the Arctic on your own.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Price wise it really does depend on the individual holiday.
Such are the TO's mark ups during school holidays though that I have invariably found it cheaper DIY'ing, though I don't really look at the comparison now as I know what suits often with increased days skiing and the TO's cannot provide. However I have skied with my family every year DIY'ing for 21 years and have never used a TO.
Going by myself or with my wife or a friend outside of school holiday time is somewhat different the economies of transfers with small numbers and the lower prices outside of school holiday time often though not invariably throw up cheap deals that are impossible to match DIY'ing and I use TO's from time to time (twice last year).
My own experience of 'At least they get you there guaranteed' is a bit so what . I have travelled to lots of places in the world without tour operators without trouble including ski resorts, obstacles can occur but are rare. In the meantime delays to charter flights and bus transfers mean I have wasted far more time travelling with Tour operators than I ever have done travelling independently. Including a 24 hour total travelling time with a TO from Glasgow to Courchevel.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I prefere my DIY trips to TO versions, mainly because I get two weeks for the price of one as it usualy involves self drive and self catering. I have a Nissan Navara so we can take plenty of home comforts and goodies to lessen the impact of resort shopping.
We usually do a "big shop" in the valley on the way and a mid week drive out to a large supermarket on the middle Saturday to avaiod the local crowds.
That said we've elected to go with Crystal to Winter Park this year as it worked out a reasonably fair deal.
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FAQ
