 Poster: A snowHead
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I was talking to a very dear old lady of 90, at a neighbourhood party a couple of years ago. She knew I went skiing a lot and asked if I'd done any snowboarding. I said yes, a bit. "I don't like snowboarders" she said firmly. When I asked why she said "They b ugger up the snow".
I'd go with Idris's explanation above - you don't see many proper carving snowboarders, though they are a thing of beauty.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| zikomo wrote: |
My point is, that as a group, boarders do not seem to either understand or believe they need to follow the FIS code.
Looking at pretty much any forum/blog or at comments on youtube videos involving slope collisions - there is consistent ignorance or denial of the FIS riles by snowboarders. I am sorry - but the evidence is there for all to see.
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I quite like this rigorous statistical manner of research. On any given matter we can simply say what people comment on youtube and conclude that that represents the entire population. You are Adam Buxton and I claim my £5.
Re age profile of boarders I don't really believe it is predominantly disrespectful yoof anymore from the number of mid 30s to mid 60s boarders I see out there.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm sure I've told my all time favourite boarding anecdote here before but it bears repeating because it was so perfect. I was boarding a long way off any groomer in Fernie on a pretty wide and bumped up piece of offpiste. Late in the day and I had foot cramp so I sat down to stretch and attempt to relieve it. Plummy English duffer in his 50s comes flailing down the slope which has no one else on it, obviously not enjoying it and on the limit of his marginal skills. He nearly skis into me despite the ample room everywhere to pass then mutters "Bloody snowboarders always sitting in the middle of the piste!!".
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
My point is, that as a group, boarders do not seem to either understand or believe they need to follow the FIS code.
Looking at pretty much any forum/blog or at comments on youtube videos involving slope collisions - there is consistent ignorance or denial of the FIS riles by snowboarders. I am sorry - but the evidence is there for all to see.
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I quite like this rigorous statistical manner of research. On any given matter we can simply say what people comment on youtube and conclude that that represents the entire population. You are Adam Buxton and I claim my £5.
Re age profile of boarders I don't really believe it is predominantly disrespectful yoof anymore from the number of mid 30s to mid 60s boarders I see out there. |
It is NOT rigorous or statistical in any way and I didn't in any way claim that it was. It is however, evidence for all to see. Backed up by personal experience (including as a member of the ski patrol team). It seems to me there is a lack of knowledge amongst borders I have come across - the majority I have spoken to either don't know what the FIS code is, or continue to believe that skiers downhill of them create the problem. There are plenty of skiers who also have this problem but in my experience it is a much smaller proportion of the total.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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A few interesting points above. Slightly inevitable that this very specific question turned into a general Snowbaorders vs skiers diatribe. I understood the question to refer to the dreadful scraping that beginner/intermediate snowbaorders seem to do. I can't help feeling that is more 'damaging' on balance than a similar skier going down the same slope. However, the overall damage is utterly negliguble IMO.
@Dave of the Marmottes,
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| Re age profile of boarders I don't really believe it is predominantly disrespectful yoof anymore from the number of mid 30s to mid 60s boarders I see out there. |
I think you are probably right. Not a single one of my children, or their friends, boards. They see it as decidedly uncool. That's a pretty small sample, and not wholly representative, but it is certainly the case that there is a clear trend among the young away from snowboarding.
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Young skiers would do less damage to the piste if they weren't all determined to stop in a huge spray of snow every time. 
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if it's basic snobbery, then surely it's the piste basher at the end of the day squishing everything back down that destroys the piste much more 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Young skiers would do less damage to the piste if they weren't all determined to stop in a huge spray of snow every time. |
They're actually just protecting the pistes. As it snows more at the top of the mountain than the bottom, they're just re-distributing the snow to help things balance out and keep base depth up on the lower mountain for later in the season.
Maybe.
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Snowboarders would get a far better reception if they generally weren't younger, better dressed and better looking than the rest of us on teh piste.
I do like the response to the question from some boarders on here which was generally along the lines of 'Did you spill my pint?' thus supporting the antisocial stereotype of boarders.
I wonder if anyone's done any proper research on whether boarders do cut up the slopes more.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
| I'd heard there were certain resorts in the States that ban snowboarding. I thought this was simply for snobbish reasons. My nephew was with me yesterday from California and he skis Utah quite a lot. He told me they love Deer Valley the most as the snow's always much better due to the fact they ban boarders. I'd never really thought of that before but wondered if there's any truth in it. (He's a skier and his two younger brothers board so I'd imagine he takes a pop at booarders as often as possible) |
As above, America had problems in ancient times. Europe never had any of that childish stuff. In the very early days in the UK you had to demonstrate you could ride safely, but that was all.
Taos was one US hold out which mattered, but since hell has froze over and it's all good there. It's not a place for Deer Valley types though.
I'd suggest that your nephew rides the other resorts in that area and then decides which he likes best. Deer Valley is hardly "core". As far as disliking people with minor differences in approach, that's a juvenile thing, like inline skaters and skate boarders pretending to hate each other. I guess we have to hope they grow up and get over it, as the alternative can be ugly.
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I think "cool" should be absolutely banned from boarding. It's not a lifestyle, it's a sport.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@cameronphillips2000,
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I do like the response to the question from some boarders on here which was generally along the lines of 'Did you spill my pint?' thus supporting the antisocial stereotype of boarders.
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Indeed.
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Hi all, first post after being a lurker for a fair while.
With my vast experience of 2 one-week (snowboarding) holidays and a few dome days, I can confidently state that snowboarders may or may not do more damage to pistes than skiiers. Glad that's all cleared up.
As an aside, the most damage I've seen done to a piste was by myself, side-slipping down one of the home runs to Plagne 1800 earlier this year. My friend decided she couldn't ski down it, and was too scared to walk, so I dutifully dug my edge in hard and scraped the last useable snow off the run while she tried to push me face first down the slope to my death. All accompanied by a mix of hateful and bemused looks. As you can imagine, both of us massively enjoyed the experience. 
Long story short, skiiers or snowboarders who attempt runs above their ability level will inevitably do some damage to them. Or get their mate to do it for them, I suppose.
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You know it makes sense.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
@cameronphillips2000,
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I do like the response to the question from some boarders on here which was generally along the lines of 'Did you spill my pint?' thus supporting the antisocial stereotype of boarders.
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Indeed. |
I suspect that a number of us contending robustly that the original purported causal relationship was utter dangleybits are first and foremost skiers. Obviously, and I can only speak for myself, I am happy to confirm that I am antisocial whatever I am wearing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| zikomo wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
My point is, that as a group, boarders do not seem to either understand or believe they need to follow the FIS code.
Looking at pretty much any forum/blog or at comments on youtube videos involving slope collisions - there is consistent ignorance or denial of the FIS riles by snowboarders. I am sorry - but the evidence is there for all to see.
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I quite like this rigorous statistical manner of research. On any given matter we can simply say what people comment on youtube and conclude that that represents the entire population. You are Adam Buxton and I claim my £5.
Re age profile of boarders I don't really believe it is predominantly disrespectful yoof anymore from the number of mid 30s to mid 60s boarders I see out there. |
It is NOT rigorous or statistical in any way and I didn't in any way claim that it was. It is however, evidence for all to see. Backed up by personal experience (including as a member of the ski patrol team). It seems to me there is a lack of knowledge amongst borders I have come across - the majority I have spoken to either don't know what the FIS code is, or continue to believe that skiers downhill of them create the problem. There are plenty of skiers who also have this problem but in my experience it is a much smaller proportion of the total. |
Uh oh, we've got a member of an American Ski Patrol team here.
Peep Peep! Slow down everybody!
Respeck ma a'thor'itee
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Poster: A snowHead
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| under a new name wrote: |
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Good skiers, of course, only ever have their weight on one ski on piste.
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No... not at all these days.
A few places ban boarders, I think it's historical snobbery.
I think Deer Valley has "such nice snow" because it mostly markets itself to overweight, over wealthy lunching Americans who don't ski off piste or anywhere that is not immaculately groomed. Which results in excellent off piste and (purposefully left ungroomed runs with great bumps). I suspect that they also have consistently cold enough temperatures to make very nice artificial snow whenever they want (as opposed to the concrete that is often manufactured in Europe, as it is typically used to extend the lifetime of a piste) plus abundant natural snow anyway. |
Yep. Love Deer Valley - no-one goes off-piste, ever, there. It's great on a powder day.
As for their attitude to boarders/young people etc, it is probably indicative that the Lifties are all decked out in Spyder Gear, and no-one is on the mountain between 12-2pm.
I saw an absolutely hilarious incident last winter, where 2 boarders had sneaked in and were bombing it down at superspeed, chased by a ski patrol guy yelling on his radio for backup. Was very, very funny.
Despite all this, I have to say that DV is great. Superbly managed, friendly and helpful staff, frankly awesome facilities and food options and plenty of good skiing to be had. It's a shame not to share it with some of our snowboarding compatriots.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 7-12-15 14:34; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| I think many slightly slower skiers absolutely loathe the scraping sound of a boarder approaching from behind. They SOUND out of control. |
Yes the approaching unseen sound gives me the willies. Slightly slower skier, not sure about that, I reckon I'm pretty much median speed on a bog-standard Espace Killy red.
To be fair though I've been hit from behind/above by 3 skiers in the last 2 seasons but have never been hit by a snowboarder.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@dogwatch, the slower you go the more often you'll hear somebody approaching from behind. My wife is a fairly slow skier and she gets a bit freaked by the sound of folk approaching from behind. Boarders freak her out more but I think that's just because they make more noise, I'm sure she's been hit by skiers more. I keep telling her the solution is easy - just ski faster - but for some reason she doesn't regard that as helpful.
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@Valkyrie, maybe she should invest in a good set of headphones to keep out unpleasant noises like scrapey snowboards and unhelpful spouses.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Assuming the same level of skill, can skiers stop faster than boarders? Obviously they have twice as many edges, but will more pressure on the single edge on a seriously aggressive hockey stop work better on skis or board?
I remember a complaint from someone behind me that I stopped too quickly, which was entertaining, but wondering if that was because it is actually harder on a board or just a lack of finesse and leaving sensible amount of space from that individual.
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What have snowboarders ever done for us.
-better clothing.
-better shaped skis.
-better music.
-better drugs.
-better lifts.
FFS it's 2015 give it a rest.
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i always assumed that with these private resorts that it was actually the lifts that snowboarders were not allowed to use as they were privately owned, but the land itself was free (assuming state owned) for all to use ?
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Well, lots of banter but none the wiser as to whether boarders cause more slope damage.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Put the numbers of visitors say Meribel gets on skis in DV and see how trashed the pistes get. If DV has better surface conditions it's down to greater investment in grooming, low moisture snow and fewer skiers likely doing less mileage per day than the average resort. The snowboard theory is total horseshit.
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One reason you won't ever see that number of skiers at DV is because they limit the number of passes they sell each day!
I have to say, I'm with Harry Flashman though: I like DV a lot. (Maybe that's because I'm over 50 - but I'm neither fat, nor rich). I've had some excellent powder days there while 90% of the clientele stayed on the groomed runs.
Do snowboarder's damage the piste (aka groomers)? - Not nearly as much as the less skilled ones damage the bumps, by scraping all the
snow off them as they sideslip their way down.
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| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
| Well, lots of banter but none the wiser as to whether boarders cause more slope damage. |
It doesn't look like there's any empirical evidence one way or the other.
I have nothing whatever against boarders in general - a skillful rider on a board is wonderful to see but that joy is balanced by the horror of an unseen 'scraper' somewhere up-hill.
FWIW, I suspect boarders negotiating slopes they're not comfortable with do more damage than skiers similarly out of their depth - they just seem to spend a lot of time facing down the hill, accumulating a pile of snow ahead of them.
See @Matt Gilbert's tale above
I have no evidence for that view - just IME - and it gives the bashers something to do at night
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Interesting debate so here's my 2 pennies worth. So I don't think skiers and boarders do more or less damage to the pistes: both cause a scraped off top layer of snow and then a resultant mogul. I think the problem is the shape of the "damage" that is caused. I have often seen boarders edging down a steeper part of a piste which they can do in a straight line down the hill and a mogul of the scrpaed of snow wherever they stop. As a skier it of course harder to negotiate through as as the shape doesn't fit the way we ski (unless you are a particularly confident Skier of course) Whereas I can more easily ski through the same chopped up piste where people have skied because shape of the ski line and moguls is easier for skiers. No doubt the reverse is true for boarders. I think that makes sense but it's somewhat hard to describe
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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This is a pretty ridiculous thread, there are way more skiers out there and skiers of a high standard kick up far more snow than the average boarder as they go very fast. It's sad to see such small minded prejudice and ignorance, the fact is everyone on the mountain affects the condition of the piste and you can't say the smaller numbers of boarders are ruining pistes any more than the larger number of skiers. Worse still is such negativity and ridiculous justifications for hate such as "oh they make a scraping sound when they come up behind me". I mean seriously this bothers you? Maybe you should take up a different hobby. Where is the joy, the fun and the love? Very depressing reading.
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| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
| Well, lots of banter but none the wiser as to whether boarders cause more slope damage. |
Define damage?
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You know it makes sense.
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@Minion1980, Nobody is talking about 'hate'. What is daft is the way what might have been an interesting technical discussion about the 'damage' caused by snowboards vs Skis has been turned into this sort of squabble. It seems to be the boarders who instantly took umbrage and decided to divert the discussion.
As for the 'scraping noise' it's not a justification for hating or anything similar. The fact that many dislike the noise is perfectly understandable IMO. I hate the noise. It's the fact that one hears a sudden loud noise close behind and you feel someone is about to crash into you.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
| Well, lots of banter but none the wiser as to whether boarders cause more slope damage. |
Define damage? |
Just what I was thinking.
Neither skiers nor snowboarders actually damage the piste. Runs get chopped up and bumped out, but not damaged. Some snowboarders even like to ride moguls and can do so very well. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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The FIS rules need to be refined. I suggest add a 'while not always necesary to look up the hill before making a new turn, perhaps if you see 'Bob' at a pub and decide to suddenly swing right to go and sink some beers then a little glance uphill wouldn't hurt!'
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Some snowboarders even like to ride moguls and can do so very well.
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It's not a loaded question, but anyone got any video of a snowboarder nailing a mogul field with style?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think I'd prefer Rule X
" The FIS rules are not an invisible cloak of armour. Despite the rule that you should always be in control guess what other slope users will lose control. Others will enter or start a run without looking uphill (particuarly if they are wearing the red invincibility cape of the ESF and have 15 ducklins behind them) This means even if you are the downhill skier you may get hit from behind. Keep your head up and most importantly your brain engaged. Oh and the don't stop somewhere obstructing the trail rule - yes we do mean it even if Orlando has just texted you about this lovely spot for lunch."
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Piste bashers do more damage to black runs than boarders and skiers put together!, just when a black run is starting to get a little bit more bumped up, interesting and more of a challenge, some moron comes along in a piste basher and ruins it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Of course it does.
A snowboard is basically a giant teatray scraping down the snow.
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The rules don't need changing. Uphill rider needs to be prepared for whatever the downhill person does.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
@blahblahblah, agree when boarding is done properly.... freeride, deep powder, big in-control carved turns it looks awesome. The majority of boarders however look to be having a real tough time of it, and throwing themselves all over the place and hanging on for grim death in my experience. If I was a boarder I wouldn't be on piste, I really don't know why more don't play off the edge in the powder rather than being on piste. As for the flats and lifts well that must be a real bind, but each to their own I guess. If I wasn't a skier I'd be a boarder though!
One thing for sure I keep well out of the way when I hear boarders coming scraping behind, got hit in the back at relatively slow speed a couple of years ago by a big lad who was not in control and it made me very wary - it hurt! |
Big +1 to all of that - including being hit!
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Well a well intentioned thread to gain futher insight into a theory I came across yesterday seems to have galvonised the mountain community at this time of peace and goodwill to all
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hard carving whether on skis or boards cut up pistes more quickly than short light swings down the fall line.
On the other hand snowboarders are usually quicker to ride the off piste and the chop...thereby spreading the load. Therefore perhaps swings and roundabouts ?
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| essex wrote: |
| The rules don't need changing. Uphill rider needs to be prepared for whatever the downhill person does. |
+++++1!
And if you can't avoid the downhill skier/boarder when they make a sudden change of direction, you are too close or too fast!!!!
I would add though, everyone should be taught to avoid going right to the very edge of the piste either for a turn or to stop and leave a "gateway" for an overtaking skier to pass, ie if skier A is overtaking skier B and B suddenly moves to the left, forcing A to go left too then B continues to go left and it's too late for A to go right, if B goes all the way to the edge of the piste, A has nowhere to go. ( ruined a perfectly good Aldi ski jacket by being "forced" into the snow fence at the side of the piste)
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FAQ
