 Poster: A snowHead
|
@pam w, you don't need a car in Saalbach-Hinterglemm-Leogang.
| Quote: |
As I say I haven't been.
|
So why are you commenting?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
| So why are you commenting? |
I may want to go.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@Layne, really? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@Layne, (and anyone else wondering how a really popular resort can have 'empty' pistes).
Saalbach-hinterglemm-leogang has a ski circuit that can be skied in either direction. Skiers can also ski out to the end of the valley and return back along the same route - I.e double back rather than continuing the circuit. The majority of skiers seem to stick to these well-marked runs and this seems enough to keep people happy for a week.
However, by skiing the circuit and following everyone else, they blithely ski past numerous side pistes and therefore miss these gems. Blue 68 to Viehhofen is a great example. It is only open for a couple of weeks a year, requires a bus back to Schonleiten at the bottom and you need to know where it starts in order to ski it. Not that it is difficult to find, but it is to the side of the main circuit. As Tatman's video shows, you can often have the whole 7 km to yourself; I've never seen more than a dozen people on it whenever I've skied it. You can often experience similar conditions on pistes such as 50, 57 and 61 in Saalbach, or 17 and 18 in Hinterglemm, which all branch off the main circuit. There are also a number of ski routes, e.g. on Westgipfel, that people fail to spot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
It is only open for a couple of weeks a year, requires a bus back to Schonleiten at the bottom and you need to know where it starts in order to ski it.
|
is that the one in Tatman's video? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
This run down to Viehofen is likely to get a bit busier in the coming years if the further development/extension goes ahead as expected (which should include snowmaking).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Still Ischgl for me.....
But I like Serfaus-Fiss, and St Anton too
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
It is only open for a couple of weeks a year, requires a bus back to Schonleiten at the bottom and you need to know where it starts in order to ski it.
|
is that the one in Tatman's video? |
Yes it is, no-one skis it because the lack of a lift at the bottom puts most people off. They miss an absolute treat though, it's a wonderful run.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Thank you for all for your recommendations.
We been able to get free flight (miles) with ski carriage to innsbruck. so we decided to go with ischgl for 3rd week of Jan. we know its not the cheapest but the flight cost will offset this one. and we like to have a nice hotel and good food at the end of the day.
Has anyone been or heard about hotel sonne ?
http://www.sonne-ischgl.at/en/
Was able to find a room for 7 night half board for about £750 pp
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is an interesting report and I would certainly like to look at where the figures came from. Does La Plange really have 65% more skier visits than Tignes (which has a longer season) Is Les Arcs really bigger (in terms of skier visits) than the combined Courchevel, Meribel Motterat area? And what is meant by a "skier visit" is it a week, or a day?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@johnE, I would recommend a perusal of the introduction. According to the glossary, "Skier visits (or skier-days): One person visiting a ski area for all or any part of a day or night for the purpose of skiing, snowboarding, or other downhill sliding. Skier visits include full-day, half-day, night, complimentary, adult, child, season pass and any other type of ticket that gives a skier/snowboarder the use of an area's facilities. A skier skiing for a whole week in a resort accounts for 7 skier visits for instance."
The report makes for very interesting reading: for example, the national participation rate in skiing in France is only about a third of the rate in Austria, whilst the proportion of foreign skiers who visit France is around half of those who visit Austria. It's also fascinating to see the changes from year to year. Both the 2013 and 2014 reports can be downloaded from the internet and compared.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
We're thinking of either Schladming or Hinterglemm for the next trip. We're aiming to avoid Austrian half term, but I was wondering, do the Dutch holidays make much of a difference in terms of queues, busy pistes etc?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@ajpaul, Austrian half term has little or no impact on Austrian ski resorts - Austrians can ski every weekend if they want to.
Dutch holidays have an impact on some resorts, notably Hinterglemm, to the extent that the children's ski classes are full/sold out and there are hundreds of kids in the beginner's areas in the village and there may be queues at the main gondolas if you get there at the same time as the ski schools (between 9.45 and 10.15). The longest I've queued is 10 minutes, but get out before 9.30 and there are often no queues at all. Once up into the ski circus pistes above Hinterglemm and Saalbach, there is plenty of room for everyone, particularly if you look out for the runs away from the main circuit - see my previous post. In addition, you can ski on from Saalbach to Leogang, and from December, you'll be able to ski from Saalbach-Hinterglemm to Fieberbrunn.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
@ajpaul, The worst weeks those when Vienna (Wien), Burgenland or Lower Austria (Niederösterreich) are on holiday, as these are the regions where skiing every weekend is not so easy. They tend not to be the same weeks - like France, Austria staggers its mid-term breaks. My February week last season clashed with the Wiener-Woche and one of the Dutch areas but apart from the hotel being full we did not notice much in the way of queues anywhere. We have rebooked for the week before the Wiener-Woche for 2015/2016 knowing that we will miss both the Viennese and the Dutch, however the hotel room prices remain the same all season.
You can check the regions on holiday here: http://www.schulferien.org/ They call the holidays Winterferien and you need to scroll down to see Österreich and the other countries listed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Thanks folks!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Tatman's Tours.
In terms of skier visits I was wondering that since La Plagne appears the most popular resort in the world from the http://www.isiaski.org/download/20140517_ISIA_Vuokatti_1b_presentation_vanat.pdf report (I do note that the word "estimated" is in his source of data but with no explanation how) I was wondering if they included all purchasers of a Paradiski lift pass as a visitor to La Plagne even if on that day they never left Les Arcs and vice versa
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@johnE, I note also that Avoriaz, Val d'Isere and Tignes are all listed separately whereas I would have thought listing PdS and EK would make for more sensible analysis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@johnE, I think that the only sensible interpretation is that anyone buying a Paradiski pass in Les Arcs is counted as a Les Arcs visitor, and the same goes for La Plagne.
@under a new name, I've wondered about this too. No doubt there are good reasons - maybe it depends on how easily you can draw a line between individual villages and their respective ski areas. I don't think it can be that simple though, because Leogang could easily be regarded as separate from Saalbach-Hinterglemm. I'm sure that there must be a simple explanation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Tatman, my first thought was that e.g. VdI and Tignes are two separate communes and collect data independently whereas some of the other odd pairings might not be (although that wouldn't explain Avoriaz which is patr of Mozine). That said, Morzine and Avoriaz are exploited by two different operating companies.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
To the OP I'd add Serfaus to your list of places to look at in Austria - I always throw it in - its got a great, big ski area with excellent lifts, good mountain huts etc. Not huge on the nightlife but not awful either. Search for it on here and you'll see thereare a few threads of it with quite a few fans.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
im becoming concerned at the amount of folks recommending saalbach as the last 4/5 years we have had a few days there in combination with a few days elswhere and if those that go there regularly keep telling folks how good it is the place will become overrun ,its a good job theve linked into another40 km and improved the snowmaking and lift system yet again ,seriously unless you are a party of beginers/2nd year you will not imo find a better place to have an all round ski holiday its skiing is extensive its lifts are efficient its mountain restaurants are exceptional almost without exception its instructors guides excellent its hotels first class though you will stuggle to find basic budget accom and its apres ski is simply the best oh we have already booked and its much cheaper to diy than tour operator p.s there are few of the top named resorts in europe that we havnt at some time visited
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@ski for fun, have you just not made a rod for your own back? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Quote: |
but possibly beginners and those with young children would not get the best value and just a personal view snowboarders should not consider the place
|
Okay, I'll bite!  Our experience has been that those of our guests who fall into those categories have generally had no complaints about the suitability of the ski area for their particular requirements. The size (according to the newly-updated website, now the biggest in Austria with 270km of fully-linked pistes and 70 lifts) and variety of the area of course helps to ensure that there is something for everyone.
However, narrowing it down: the beginners have good ski-schools, but possibly more importantly, easily accessible, village-height nursery slopes - no need to use ski buses or to walk long distances or to get a cable-car up the mountain, Also the small nursery slope next to Saalbach church is free to use, and those progressing to the larger Turmwiese nursery area on the other side of 'Skilift Street' can buy a 'Pay As You Go' points pass that can work out cheaper than buying a full pass. The nursery slopes at Hinterglemm are also excellent.
The only real caveat I can think of (and any beginners reading this should note) is that when it comes to going up the mountain (usually after a few days) and tackling a proper blue run, those runs so categorised appear to encompass a range of difficulty from very gentle at one end of the spectrum to borderline red at the other, so it pays to take knowledgeable advice on which one to choose, which may vary according to the weather and the time of the season/day. (A 7km blue run that has been known to catch out inexperienced skiers, especially late in the day, is number 2 - in my opinion it should be a red run).
I would add that, from this coming season the upper half of the Bernkogel mountain is likely to be transformed into a prime beginners' area. It has always had the gentlest slopes in the entire area, but hitherto will have been avoided by inexperienced skiers because of the exceptionally long T-bar leading from the mid-station to the top. This summer this T-bar is being replaced by a fast 6-seater chair lift with heated seats. Add to this the fact that a brand new restaurant has been built to supplement the existing Baernalm restaurant (a sun trap) at the mid-station, and it is not hard to imagine how the upper Bernkogel slopes will surely become a magnet for novice skiers, as well as families with children and the 'deckchair brigade'. I should also mention, for the benefit of anyone who hasn't been to Saalbach in recent years, that the former, slow chair lift from the bottom of the Bernkogel to the mid-station was replaced several years ago by a gondola cable car, so it will be easy for those who are 'cutting their teeth' on the very gentle upper section to take the gondola from the mid-station to the bottom, if they find the lower section (a more challenging blue run) too daunting.
Much of what I've said will apply equally to people with young children; however it's worth pointing out that the largest ski-schools have village-level, conveniently-located, designated children's nursery areas, equipped with the usual cartoon characters, travelators and equipment, and they enjoy very good reputations for the child-friendliness, English language skills and competence of their staff, as well as the quality of the tuition. Furthermore parents of primary-school-age children in our experience invariably find that their little darlings are soon leaving them and their older siblings 'in the dust', so the speak, and they will probably be on red runs after a few days.
Moving on to snowboarders, opinion seems to be divided. It's a resort which lends itself to long itineraries and circuits of the valley. Inevitably there are a few flats that connect different sectors, but these don't usually pose a problem to competent boarders (although I do know of one overweight, unfit, middle-aged boarder - a member of my family - who has made noises about taking up skiing because "it seems so much easier to get around".) However I've often been out in mixed groups, comprised of both skiers and boarders, and I've never heard any complaints - in fact my niece's fiancé recently chose Saalbach for his stag week - he and most of his friends are boarders. Many of our repeat guests are also boarders.
The "Where to Ski and Snowboard" guide has this to say: "For boarders - Good all-rounder. Saalbach is great for boarding. Slopes are extensive, lifts are mainly chairs and gondolas, and there are pistes to appeal to beginners, intermediates and experts alike – with few flats to negotiate. For experienced boarders, there’s off-piste terrain between the lifts if snow conditions permit."
Obviously the new link to Fieberbrunn, opening this coming season, will add extensive, new off-piste terrain to the area, and I assume that this will greatly enhance its attractiveness to experienced boarders and skiers alike.
I'm sorry to go on for so long - I didn't intend to when I started, but I hope that what I've said will be of some help to any beginners/parents/boarders who may be wondering whether this area is suitable for them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
+1 - having taught there a fair bit, Saalbach would be top of my list for beginners in Austria. Certainly higher than Kitz, SkiWelt, Anton, Ischgl, etc.
It's good that they're finally replacing that T bar on Bernkogel, as it really is a prime beginner area. Been quite a delay though - every season the lift co does a big presentation for all the instructors/ski schools, and they were saying "we're replacing that lift" since 2009...
The link to Fieberbrunn really ups the areas game as well - the one thing Saalbach was short on was high quality ferried terrain (plenty of offsite and not much competition for it, but mostly at the mellow end).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ah probably didnt put my view across as well as should have done, its just that with saalbach being at the higher end of cost re hotels it could be that there is better value or at least its more affordable to take beginers and young families to a smaller resort as if you are with such a group there would be someone usually me paying for access to the facilities wether skiing hotels etc and not being able to take full advantage so not get the best out of their holiday and then possibly decide skiing is not for them in the future, as for boarders I having suffered an injury and had far too many near misses from them running in to me or mine from above and behind so selfishly dont want them where I am scraping the snow off plus their choice of music is dreadful but that does not alter my view that saalbach is simply the best its a bit like feeding a child the best prime steaks no point until they can appreciate it and the hard work that someones done to earn the cash to put it on their plate
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
P.S: how good is the snow in Saalbach in January? I know this is a stupid question but I guess what I want to understand is how effective the snow making is given the relatively low altitude and southern facing slopes? WTSS gave it 2 stars for snow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@khwaja, extensive snow making. I haven't been there for a while, but for 3 years in a row I was the pre-Christmas for work with no snow problems.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
@khwaja, See this other thread: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2743324&highlight=saalbach#2743324
Saalbach is actually higher than many successful, well-known Austrian resorts (Kitzbuehel, Mayrhofen, Zell am See, Niederau, etc.), and, as has often been pointed out, Austria has a lower snowline than France, due to being further east and less affected by the warming influence of the Gulf Stream.
We've spent 8 consecutive Christmases there, and, until last season have never suffered from lack of snow pre-Christmas (the resort opens around the beginning of December); in fact the conditions in mid-December have sometimes been idyllic (quiet, perfectly groomed pistes). Last year was the exception, the snow having arrived later than usual right across the Alps. Before Christmas in Saalbach we were skiing on artificial snow and were actually better off than many neighbouring resorts, from where people were being bussed in - at least it was possible to ski right down the Bernkogel to the village. Then it started bucketing down on Christmas Day, and a week later the conditions were so good that a relative who is a ski racer/instructor, and who has skied in Canada and Alaska in recent years, commented that the off-piste was the best he could remember.
The preponderance of south-facing slopes is actually a benefit during January. The sun doesn't have the strength to do any damage to the upper slopes, and the lower slopes are mainly in the shadow of the mountains on the other side of the valley - at least for most of the day - and it is therefore invariably colder lower down than higher up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Based on what you want I think it's a toss up between Ischgl and Saalbach. You won't be disappointed with either. Both are fantastic resorts. Personally I prefer Ischgl. Quieter, cheaper and not quite as extensive would be Schladming as someone has suggested.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
)
