 Poster: A snowHead
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My bootfitter chose my boots for me because of fit, function and budget. They happen to be Salomon...
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I chose my skis because I enjoyed skiing on them, and the brand is totally covered by snow when I'm actually skiiing. They happen to be K2 and Atomic...
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I chose my jacket and pants because they fit, and the quality was good and below that of expensive posing brands. Here in Germany it's "just a normal decent brand". Back in UK it's more likely to be seen as an expensive brand. They just happen to have Schoeffel embroidered on them and cost a reasonable price, and don't look stupid.
As for Apple... I bought an Apple laptop, not because it was Apple, or ran OSX or so I could say I had a macbook. It was just *a* laptop, that at the time cost less than the equivalent Dell and because I didn't have to pay a Microsoft tax. It's nothing special, it's no more special than any other laptop, it was definitely no more reliable or better constructional quality or better OS functionality than any other laptop I've bought. And I won't go out of my way to specifically get another. (apologies for any offence that causes the Apple brand whores).
About to buy a new ski jacket. It will have a brand on it. Unless someone can point me at one that doesn't, and is decent quality?
In general I'll even go out of my way to actively avoid brands, in case I get seen as a fan. No way in hell will Levi, Nike, Converse, etc. be worn by me.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Maybe I'm a brand whore as I have products from many manufacturers including, Salomon, K2, Head, Spyder, Arc'teryx, Dakine, Dainese, Sweet Protection, Bergans, Berghaus, Hagloffs, Penguin, Eider, Oakley, Smith, Tresspass, Dare2be, Tog24, Quechua, Surfanic, Aldi, Lidl, and loads of unbranded stuff like thermals and fleeces. (didn't realise there were so many until I thought about it just now). Not once though when making a purchase did whoever made it come in to my buying decision, I see something I want, like, or need, and I buy it.
The only time I'm conscious of wearing a particular brand is when I'm wearing my Spyder jacket as I feel like a bit of dick in it due to the type of person you usually see wearing their stuff, but I like the colour and you can't see the badge if I'm wearing my pack. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ski gear from bottom up...
Ski's - Salomon
Boots - Head
Socks - Aldi
Salopettes - Quechua
Jacket - Salomon
Poles - Leki
Goggles - Quechua?
Gloves - ? Most likely Quechua or Salomon
Helmet - Quechua
Base Layers- A mix of Quechua, Aldi & Lidl stuff mainly
I'm sure I'm influenced by brands, but usually in that if I've had a good experience with their products I'm more likely to go back to using them. In general though I look at function & price more than anything, and as long as I won't look like a dick in it then that gets bought. Consequently most of my ski/hillwalking/running/cycling gear has come from Decathlon, Aldi & Lidl.
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| gorilla wrote: |
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Nonsense, plenty of people are entirely upfront about purchasing luxury goods because of the brand.
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On the level of I like Apple. Apple is good. I want an Apple thing. Then that's probably true. On a deeper level, not so much. I suspect very few Apple customers are aware of exactly why they desire an Apple product. The marketing approach is to engender some sort of emotional connection with the product and suggest that the product broadcasts something about the owner. Very few people are honest enough to admit that they've been manipulated in that way into a purchasing decision. |
Apple is an interesting case because their marketing is multiple level.
The Apple-verse is genuinely well-integrated. There's a good rational case for buying i-Everything if you want things that work together without hassle, that with fairly rare exceptions work well and you aren't too concerned about the price. I think your assessment that people are unaware of this is incorrect. Many are aware.
But also there's an image aspect, the "be-different". Even though Apple is now thoroughly mainstream, especially with the rise of bring-your-own IT equipment at work.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Reality is we use brands all the time to take shortcuts in decision making. Unfamiliar place - Starbucks or a local coffee shop? - you either choose Starbucks because you know what you'll get or you're anti corporate/hate taste of Starbucks and therefore believe local shop will be superior, you won't um & ah about the decision, search out reviews of local shop on Trip Advisor etc. |
this seems like a good opportunity to link to my favourite article on branding. precis: the good citizens of Crouch End flock to new artisanal coffee establishment, thinking they are rejecting the big mean tax avoiding Starbucks then get all pi$$y when they find out it is part owned by Tesco
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jan/02/harris-hoole-coffee-ownership-tesco
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I choose on mainly four things, probably in this order but it might alter
1. Functionality
2. Reviews / quality
3. Appearance
4. Brand name
So for example with my skis the appearance was probably last and brand 3rd. My jacket is Helly but if it had been any other brand it (probably) wouldn't have mattered. There is however an indefinite link between them (in my eye) as ski related brands I have a high regard for tend to be good quality items and conversely brands that are regarded as good quality tend to be well thought of.
I tend not to fall for marketing hype, and in fact I frequently am put off by it which is why I won't buy Apple. I admit they produce good quality gear but I don't like all the hoo-hah that surrounds it so I will look for the next best thing to an Apple product and buy that instead.
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| dogwatch wrote: |
| gorilla wrote: |
| No one ever thinks that they are affected by branding or advertising. |
Nonsense, plenty of people are entirely upfront about purchasing luxury goods because of the brand. I'm just not one of them.
There's also a difference between brand value based on quality - real or imagined - and a brand message promising membership of a subculture, which is a fundamentally ludicrous notion. |
Some brands are very tied to sub-cultures though. Doc Martens for example. Brand messaging is almost always about showing how you can join or be part of a group. That's why skiing and such like have professionals whose entire jobs is to function as a living, breathing marketing tool. When you're following the pro-skier de jour on Instagram you're getting a marketing message from their sponsors based on how cool their life is. To the point where people unaffiliated with brands will hashtag brands all over their output. Segments in films are paid for by sponsors. Magazines rely on advertising. Sponsors will pay for peoples trips so that they can write articles and take photos that appear in magazines.
This sort of branded marketing also biases your decisions about things like functionality and aesthetics.
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I do tend to stick to some brands when I've tried their product and found it better than anything I've used/found previously.
Example: Smith Optics. I don't give a damn about all their 'awesome lifestyle' marketing, but given how much better the goggles perform than anything else I've tried I don't forsee buying from another brand unless something major changes.
Sometimes I also buy from brands where I positively HATE the branding and marketing. For instance Abercrombie & Fitch. I think they're a bunch of absolute funny fellows. However their clothes fit my body shape much better and are betty quality than anything else I've found in the same price range (talking sale prices!). And they do make some things where the logo is hidden well enough that no-one can identify me as an A&F-wearing funny fellow 
Oops there goes my cover!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I buy my gear based on performance and functionality and have a rule that I never pay full price. I try to buy from independents and on line and never from large high street retailers, I typically buy in Germany/ Austria in the summer (when it's cheaper) and don't look for labels by brand but do look for recommended gear in reviews, moreover this tends to be branded gear but I don't really care what make it is so long as it does a job. I tend to buy tech gear, not too fussed if it's last season if the price I'd right, and wear it pretty much all year round for outdoor pursuits, gets replaced pretty regularly because I wear it a lot. For what it's worth:-
Skis - Whitedot (2 pairs, really like them)
Boots - Dynafit
Poles - Leki
Helmet - Sweet Protection
Goggles - Oakley
Jacket - Sweet Protection (cold weather) and Arcteryx (shell)
Trousers - Haglofs
Gloves - Hestra
Base layers - Janus
Airbag - ABS
AV gear - Ortovox and BCA.
I hate bulky stuff and like to layer up/ down....I don't wear mass market trendy stuff HH, Billabong, Nike, Adidas, Salomon etc, not interested in the image, more about performance for me.
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I've been reading a few snowboarding threads so I now just choose the kwl brands. Or the sick ones.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| What's a brand? |
It's something you aren't allowed to make prOn films about anymore ......
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| meh wrote: |
| That's why skiing and such like have professionals whose entire jobs is to function as a living, breathing marketing tool. |
Let's take Salomon who put out probably the highest volume of cool stuff through their web series (discounting here of course Snoworks totally embarassing BBR shill videos - wonder if Phil & Emma's dignity has returned yet). It doesn't make me want to rush out & buy Salomon kit because its what Andreas used or Mike D or Cory T uses. I guess it makes me feel sufficiently disposed to them as a big player that they are putting back into skiing generally such that negative aspects of my past experience with their product will erode over time. IMV is definitely about a longer term thing these days (brand equity) than it is about the short term sale.
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Do you consider resorts as a ‘brand’? I know a lot of people who will only venture to the large well known French resorts and not consider some of the smaller resorts
I quite often start with a Jan trip to the smaller Italian resorts if the snow is good (which is has been over recent years) but a few of my friends will not go due as they want to go to somewhere like Cham – regardless of the conditions
So certain resorts are branded for examle nightlife (St Anton), kudos (Cham), upmarket (Courch) and I find there are a lot of resort ‘snobs’ around
Oh I hope I haven’t upset anyone here 
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You know it makes sense.
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If it's cheap and it fits I'll buy it.
I wouldn't want to spend more than €100 on a jacket or €50 on trousers.
Skis €200 (if you have a few makes and models on a short list then you'll find some at less than half price in the sales before/after season)
Boots I would pay a bit more, but the ones I bought this year were half price  (apparently they are Orange this year and mine are last years Green, but for €200 discount I can live with them not being Orange)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Guess my approach is invest in what matters - more likely to spend money on a jacket rather than base layers. I like to be a bit different as well so experimenting with a whole load of European brands via the wonders of Sportpursuit. Just bought myself a Bergans jacket which has the equivalent features of the North Face i was considering but at 1/2 the price.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Vessigaud, whats the shipping times like on Sportspursuit, came across it the other day. Have used discount sites like that back in NZ however shipping times we a ridiculous month or so.
So real quality gear on there from what Ive seen
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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So certain resorts are branded for examle nightlife (St Anton), kudos (Cham), upmarket (Courch) and I find there are a lot of resort ‘snobs’ around
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That's probably the biggest load of doo-dah I've ever read on SH!! I've skied in all those places many times and strangely enough I went to all 3 for the excellent skiing. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@SFieldes, Brilliant, normally 1-2 weeks from end of sale event, and always on time.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
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So certain resorts are branded for examle nightlife (St Anton), kudos (Cham), upmarket (Courch) and I find there are a lot of resort ‘snobs’ around
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That's probably the biggest load of doo-dah I've ever read on SH!! I've skied in all those places many times and strangely enough I went to all 3 for the excellent skiing. |
I wasnt questioning the quality of these resorts as I too have skied them all - I was just stating that some resorts do carry a 'branding' whether it is warranted or not and some people will only ski these resorts and not consider other smaller less renowned ones
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| I buy my gear based on performance and functionality ... |
Which seems extremely sensible. However, you then go on to describe your kit by listing a dozen brands, the majority of which, at least, would be described as top end. Are you sure that brands / manufacturer plays no part in your purchasing decision?
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No-one has ever asked me (nor have I asked anyone) what brand are your skis? [or boots or kit]
Everyone has asked me 'what make'.
Branding is a term dreamt up by the marketing industry to make a label appear more than just a make.
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I seem to have a lot of Salomon stuff, but it just kind of happened that way..
Skis: Blizzard
Boots: Atomic
Poles: Salomon
Helmet: Salomon
Jacket: Salomon
Bag: Salomon
Trousers: Oakley (I LOVE them)
Goggles: Anon & Oakley
Gloves: Hestra
Most of it wasn't that expensive (except the skis, boots and gloves, but it was worth the money for warm, non-sweaty hands)
I think I have a slight reverse brand snobbery - the more expensive the outfit, the more I think they have more money than sense. But I guess if I was minted I'd buy a Kjus jacket just because I could.
Never Bogner though. LOL.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
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So certain resorts are branded for examle nightlife (St Anton), kudos (Cham), upmarket (Courch) and I find there are a lot of resort ‘snobs’ around
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That's probably the biggest load of doo-dah I've ever read on SH!! I've skied in all those places many times and strangely enough I went to all 3 for the excellent skiing. |
Yeah right they don't care about positioning - what's this self selection of an elite grouping then?
http://www.bestofthealps.com/en/
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I do like certain brands for their consistent quality and style e.g. Sweet Protection, POC, Movement skis, Head skis, Icebreaker, Hestra
Others I choose because I happen to get on really well with some of their specific products e.g. Line Francis Bacon & Prophet skis
Ski boots are chosen on professional boot fitter recommendation only! - I appear to have Salomon feet.
I don't mind branding at all providing it lives up to the image portrayed. Pure fashion branding does nothing for me, but quality, function and style do. Like it or not, those things often come with certain "brands" and I'm perfectly okay with that.
Those who are fiercely anti-branding are just as sad as the fashion victims.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Markymark29 wrote: |
| I buy my gear based on performance and functionality ... |
Which seems extremely sensible. However, you then go on to describe your kit by listing a dozen brands, the majority of which, at least, would be described as top end. Are you sure that brands / manufacturer plays no part in your purchasing decision? |
Precisely - how do you know that the £20 Lidl or Decathlon item (for arguments sake as close to no-name brand as possible) just won't perform the same? Skiing is no different from lots of other categories where price perception plays a role in informing our views on quality e.g. do you buy the £300 generic TV or the £600 RRP branded one on "sale" at £400? Actual specs might be very similar.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| dode wrote: |
No-one has ever asked me (nor have I asked anyone) what brand are your skis? [or boots or kit]
Everyone has asked me 'what make'.
Branding is a term dreamt up by the marketing industry to make a label appear more than just a make. |
It's the same thing - if people are asking the question they are bought into branding to some extent. I'll do the same with skis I haven't skied before - ask what they are, where they are made, how they feel etc etc to see whether its a make worth seeking out or investigating.
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You do need to remember that a lot of makes have become brands not just by marketing but by producing quality gear over decades. By being creative, innovative and finding out not only what customers want but what also what they need. I was wearing stuff whilst I was climbing in very extreme conditions from makes like Black Diamond, Helly, Outdoor Research, Mountain Equipment and North Face over 30 years ago. These companies have used their know-how acquired in making durable equipment that can survive in testing environments to make excellent gear in less demanding ones. Interestingly a lot of them were startups by people who needed the gear and weren't happy with what was available and decided to manufacture their own. I still have a ME down jacket that I bought in the mid 80s which apart from a couple of marks looks almost as good as new.
If you're interested in the history of outdoor equipment, you could have a look at this excellent website http://www.inov8.au.com/compass/compass.html where you can see the background and some of the product innovations that many well know every day brands have produced over the years
I tend to find that clothing companies that have a heritage in climbing & mountaineering produce some of the better gear and I tend to have greater trust in them as I know there's more behind them than just a badge or logo
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You know it makes sense.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Precisely - how do you know that the £20 Lidl or Decathlon item (for arguments sake as close to no-name brand as possible) just won't perform the same? Skiing is no different from lots of other categories where price perception plays a role in informing our views on quality e.g. do you buy the £300 generic TV or the £600 RRP branded one on "sale" at £400? Actual specs might be very similar. |
It's an interesting question. Lidl and Decathlon both have a brand image as strong as any fashion or quality focused brand. Of course their brand image is all about value for money. They try just as hard to convince us that we don't need a known high quality Sweet Protection, Arcteryx or Norrona jacket because their jacket will get the job done and therefore represents better value for money. Does it really or is that just marketing cowdoo too?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Is there much in the way of ski & board kit which is genuinely unbranded? I think i might have some merino base layers which are unbranded, but other than that I think probably all the kit I have carries a brand logo of some kind or other.
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Poster: A snowHead
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You might want to contact Protest
http://www.protest.eu/nl/
They are a huge Dutch snowwear company and pretty much
Invented the snowboaders branding subculture
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@uktrailmonster,
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It's an interesting question. Lidl and Decathlon both have a brand image as strong as any fashion or quality focused brand. Of course their brand image is all about value for money. They try just as hard to convince us that we don't need a known high quality Sweet Protection, Arcteryx or Norrona jacket because their jacket will get the job done and therefore represents better value for money. Does it really or is that just marketing cowdoo too?
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I've always looked at it the other way around and never particularly assumed that Sweet Protection, Arcteryx and especially Oakley did particularly deliver 'known high quality'.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Dave of the Marmottes, I get your point, I've no idea if Lidl or Aldi or Decathlon stuff is as good, I've never looked, but know the stuff I've bought (built up over 30 years skiing) just functions reet and that's good enough for me. Most, if not all of the time I buy my ski wear it at RRP less 40-50%, and hardware at say less 10-15% so I'm happy! and for me it's going to last.......and takes me to some pretty exposed places so I want it right every time. I know I could buy cheaper gear, I'm not bothered about a few extra quid, I'm looking at value, not necessarily price.....but I shop wisely and look out for deals, can't see a problem with that.
Regards resorts and "best of the Alps", presumably these places are the best, and they can provide stats to back it up, but I guess one persons idea of best is different to another, personally I just know what I like.....loads of lift served Freeride, fast effective lift system, snowmaking, great bars/ restaurants and some big terrain for guiding days, and if lucky a glacier! The resorts mentioned above tick most of those boxes. These resorts plus EK and 4V have every right to call themselves "Best in the Alps" IMO, Zermatt, Ischgl, and plenty others in same group.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, I get your point, I've no idea if Lidl or Aldi or Decathlon stuff is as good, I've never looked, but know the stuff I've bought (built up over 30 years skiing) just functions reet and that's good enough for me. |
I guess I have a very similar attitude; through experience I have learnt to favour a particular range of brands because typically they deliver what I'm looking for. But isn't that the same as brand loyalty from someone who wants to buy in to a particular cultural group, or someone who is looking for a particular value-for-money price point, or someone who avoids some brands because of the association to a particular cultural group. At the end of the day it's the brand (or anti-brand) that has a determining factor, possibly even a major determining factor, when you purchase something. How many people test kit where the brands are obscured, so literally all you are looking at is the performance?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We are niche, I was behind someone the other day who did £800 on new bits, based mainly on colour.
Good for them.
They saw, they bought, they paid. No stress about looking cool or is it the best.
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I spent longer on a pair of googles.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Is there much in the way of ski & board kit which is genuinely unbranded? I think i might have some merino base layers which are unbranded, but other than that I think probably all the kit I have carries a brand logo of some kind or other. |
Ironically a lot of the most expensive stuff (thinking Sweet etc rather than Bognor!) has less visible branding on the product. My Sweet salopettes have only one tiny little logo, which as it's the same colour as the salopettes is all but invisible.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
@uktrailmonster,
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It's an interesting question. Lidl and Decathlon both have a brand image as strong as any fashion or quality focused brand. Of course their brand image is all about value for money. They try just as hard to convince us that we don't need a known high quality Sweet Protection, Arcteryx or Norrona jacket because their jacket will get the job done and therefore represents better value for money. Does it really or is that just marketing cowdoo too?
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I've always looked at it the other way around and never particularly assumed that Sweet Protection, Arcteryx and especially Oakley did particularly deliver 'known high quality'. |
They do. You can pretty safely assume that anything from any company allowed to use GoreTex makes top quality kit that will last for a LONG time.
Which brings us the the GoreTex brand I guess, but their warranties and the seriously extensive testing they do before allowing someone to use the membrane backs up their reputation.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thank you all for you responses. @jedster, Not my finest of questions but i was in a rush.
What i was trying to gather was just a small piece of data for my work, but also for my own interest aswell. I go away to ski this winter and have just purchased some nice Dragon goggles and wanted to see how the general ski community felt about branded equipment.
All of this has been a great help, and if it meant anything I agree with the fact 'Some' brands are hypocritical of the fact that many people love this sport for the freedom and separating themselves for the day in day out 9 to 5 commercialised urban jungle, to then purchase the majority of the equipment for said ski trip within and influenced by the place they were originally.
For me it comes down to quality and sometimes i just need a jacket with a bloody good snow skirt.!
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For me it's about buying the best you can afford. My experience is limited in skiing but for things like golf I could buy a £50 waterproof jacket which isn't waterproof and will last a couple of years of pay £250 and get one that is waterproof has assurances that it is and will get replaced (free) if not. This obviously comes with reputation and hence a brand.
What that does mean is that I have more trust of clothing brands in particular which are expensive because they tend to last, nit sure if that makes me 'brandy' or not? It does mean if it's cheap I wouldn't buy it, not because it's not branded but because i don't trust it will deliver what I expect. Mrs 215 wore cheap t-shirts in layers to keep warm (£3-5) and they never worked, she recently invested in some more expensive (£30-70) ones and now is warm all the time in all her outdoor pursuits.
In answer to the original question in the post, buy more expensive stuff less often
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FAQ
