 Poster: A snowHead
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I have often thought that running an English Tea Shop in a ski resort might work.. Irish pubs work after all. Ski in the morning, bake in the early afternoon and open at 3pm for post ski tea. Even do high tea for kids... Everyone loves cake! Madeye-Smiley Maybe I'll do that....
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It may well work but, personally, I wouldn't touch an English Tea Shop or Irish pub unless I was in England or Ireland. I really don't get why people choose to go abroad then try to replicate what they could have had by just staying at home.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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swiftoid, i hate this Oirish pub thing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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i hate this Oirish pub thing
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+1. Though, I must confess, having only ever been in one, once, this is mainly down to prejudice on my part. I did go in a rather un-publike "pub" in Annecy the other day but only because I was desperate for a pee and they had a nice table to sit outside by the canal with a beer.
Business isn't great at the moment. Having a healthy snack of beer and chips in the only resto open in Les Saisies in this mid-season, watching the Critérium du Dauphiné last weekend I asked the proprietor how business had been in the winter. He said his business was 3% down but that had been general throughout the town and, he thought, much of the Alps. He wasn't very optimistic about next winter either because the French school holidays apparently fall once again in a sub-optimal fashion. It's not a place I go in at all often but I know his sister, who sells lift passes at our local office and helps out in the restaurant. They were so friendly and welcoming that I might go there more often in future. Plus, he gave me a free - and very good - coffee (perhaps the sister had whispered in his ear that I am a regular visitor to the resort). Good marketing on his part!
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pam w, I think it is the Spring breaks being so late that is damaging business, theFebruary break starts a week earlier next winter. It may be possibly why you perceive they don't go skiing at Easter. We've seen plenty of French Easter skiers in the past,but their spring break doesn't start until late April now so much of the time off is after the season ends.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It may be possibly why you perceive they don't go skiing at Easter
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yes, quite possibly - though I've skied every Easter for the last 12 years and it's never been at all crowded. Of course there are French skiers, but not in the numbers you get at NY or the main Feb/March holidays.
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pam w, no not crowded, but there are definitely less French around, many of the guys in Serre Che were commenting on the effect the later Spring break is having.
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Hells Bells, is that spring break going to become a fixed holiday, rather than a moveable (Easter) feast? What surprises me is how quiet our area is outside the French school holidays - you would think that French people without school aged children would be more likely to take advantage of those quiet times. It's like the way they always travel on a Saturday even when they own their apartments or come in camper vans - it took some years and a lot of teasing from me before my Belgian/French neighbours, just on their own without kids, stopped travelling down to their place on Saturdays, out of habit.
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pam w, it's a four week cycle just like the February one and apparently used to be at least a week, if not two weeks earlier. It now extends to mid-May. Ridiculously, our pool remains open every day until that holiday finishes, even though there is hardly ever anyone there apart from the permanent residents. We've started to arrive on Saturdays recently, just because that fits in with our other guests. We used to make sure we got there on a Friday if we were spending New Year there.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hells Bells, are there lots of arguments in the co-pro meetings about how long the pool should be open and maintained? All the MGM developments built after ours have pools, and I've often wondered how difficult those decisions are - our co-pro struggles mightily even to make minor decisions. 
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pam w, there have been a couple of discussions but no real disagreements. One lady wanted it to be closed except for the summer months, but she was soon talked down. We've recently voted to close it between the beginning of October and the start of the season, as it doesn't seem worth heating it for the two week Toussaints' holiday, although there was some talk of opening the sauna and hammam for those two weeks, as they are on a separate heating system. I have however had guests there at that time who would have liked to have used the pool.
 Things were a little fraught when we discovered the heat pump which was supposed to heat apartments and pool was not large enough and the electricity bills for heating the pool we huge, but again buildings 'dommage ouvrage' insurance sorted out that at little extra cost to us.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
| you would think that French people without school aged children would be more likely to take advantage of those quiet times. |
The French are total creatures of habit, their brains have long since ossified, they are completely incapable of thinking outside the box (except the football team  . Any conversation comes round to "that's how we've always done it". The French are completely petrified of any change, it wasn't always like this, 100 years ago it was a dynamic, innovative nation but I guess somewhere on route state socialism with a cradle to grave mentality crushed any life out of the country.
The advantage is you can go skiing at the right time and there is no-one; you can go shopping at lunchtime and the shops are empty.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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davidof, if... The shops are open 
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| under a new name wrote: |
| davidof, if... The shops are open |
are yes, very true.
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You know it makes sense.
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The advantage is you can go skiing at the right time and there is no-one;
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indeed. I rejoice at the French devotion to skiing only at New Year and the four weeks of the winter holidays - all the rest of the time I enjoy empty slopes and zero lift queues. Les Saisies is extremely busy in those key 5 weeks but outside those weeks it's far quieter than the likes of the 3 Valleys. I have been quite shell-shocked by the business of somewhere like Tignes in mid January.
I am always amused by the "8 a 8" supermarket in Les Saisies which is actually nothing of the sort. It shuts for up to 3.5 hours at mid day.  The French attachment to lunchtime is such that when modest parking charges were introduced in the main drag in Les Saisies (a very good move as it means that except in peak weeks it's quite easy to park right in the centre) they excepted 12 - 2 when parking is free.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, free parking at lunchtime is the norm in almost every town in France.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thinking about this a bit more, if your missus is working in Geneva there is probably no point whatsover in you bothering to work, you may as well get a season pass and ski every day; it would be worth checking with an accountant first anyway.
Normally, to calculate what tax you pay, your income will be added to your wife's Swiss income and you will pay tax in that tranche. Say your wife is earning 90KCHF (a fairly low salary for CH), that's 70KEuros, every euro you earn will be taxed in the 70KEuro+ tranche; so you will lose 20% Social Security + 41% tax (2013 figures) if you include VAT at 20% then about 70% of every euro you earn will go to the government. Cleaning at 70 euros/hour begins to not look quite such a good deal. As I say, speak to an accountant before you set up any business.
In addition frontaliers will be paying around 8% extra social security from 2014 as the French have not renewed a bilateral accord.
But that is not all, be careful about buying a house on the border as the Swiss govt have announced restrictions on frontalier workers on the 20th June 2014. The new law may never be passed due to EU pressure but it still puts a doubt on the value of those houses in places like St Julien or Annemasse.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thinking about this a bit more, if your missus is working in Geneva there is probably no point whatsover in you bothering to work
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Indeed. One good salary is enough for a family - worked for us.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| davidof wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| you would think that French people without school aged children would be more likely to take advantage of those quiet times. |
The French are total creatures of habit, their brains have long since ossified, they are completely incapable of thinking outside the box (except the football team . Any conversation comes round to "that's how we've always done it". The French are completely petrified of any change, it wasn't always like this, 100 years ago it was a dynamic, innovative nation but I guess somewhere on route state socialism with a cradle to grave mentality crushed any life out of the country.
The advantage is you can go skiing at the right time and there is no-one; you can go shopping at lunchtime and the shops are empty. |
This is all very true. I worked for a French software company selling in to Benelux, Scandinavia and anywhere else in Europe, Middle East and Africa that was claimed to "speak English". Any software purchased was shipped out the HQ in Lyon, it used to take some time to get to my customers who by the time they got it had pretty much forgotten what they'd ordered. Any time I spoke to the Admin Manager to see if they could do something differently I was pretty much told, "no it's not in the rule book" (She was was lovely and I did once manage to bribe her to bend the rules by sending 4 Bountys and 4 cans of Red Stripe!).
She was disgusted by my suggestion to maybe let customers download the install files and we e-mail through the licence key, and was adamant that customers want to receive something physical for their money. This was 8 years ago when I left - I wonder if they've finally given in!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Thinking about this a bit more, if your missus is working in Geneva there is probably no point whatsover in you bothering to work, you may as well get a season pass and ski every day |
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| davidof wrote: |
Thinking about this a bit more, if your missus is working in Geneva there is probably no point whatsover in you bothering to work, you may as well get a season pass and ski every day; it would be worth checking with an accountant first anyway.
Normally, to calculate what tax you pay, your income will be added to your wife's Swiss income and you will pay tax in that tranche. Say your wife is earning 90KCHF (a fairly low salary for CH), that's 70KEuros, every euro you earn will be taxed in the 70KEuro+ tranche; so you will lose 20% Social Security + 41% tax (2013 figures) if you include VAT at 20% then about 70% of every euro you earn will go to the government. Cleaning at 70 euros/hour begins to not look quite such a good deal. As I say, speak to an accountant before you set up any business.
In addition frontaliers will be paying around 8% extra social security from 2014 as the French have not renewed a bilateral accord.
But that is not all, be careful about buying a house on the border as the Swiss govt have announced restrictions on frontalier workers on the 20th June 2014. The new law may never be passed due to EU pressure but it still puts a doubt on the value of those houses in places like St Julien or Annemasse. |
Is it just me or does this type of information blow anybody elses hair back? When I read things like this I struggle to understand how anyone can get anything done in some countries - shops closing for lunch does my head in but I could (maybe) live with it but things like losing almost all your cash due to a punitive tax regime is scarey stuff and would certainly make me think twice about starting a business without seeking sound advice from a Pro.
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davidhammy, If you are a 40% taxpayer in the UK,and a lot of people are, then add on the 20% Vat and you are already at 60% ..then there's the council tax, Tv licence, road fund licences, insurance tax, fuel tax, airport tax....I'd be surprised if it's under 70% even in the UK.
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| snowyowl wrote: |
| davidhammy, If you are a 40% taxpayer in the UK,and a lot of people are, then add on the 20% Vat and you are already at 60% ..then there's the council tax, Tv licence, road fund licences, insurance tax, fuel tax, airport tax....I'd be surprised if it's under 70% even in the UK. |
Your maths seems a little shakey but I think I get what you mean although some of the taxes above are only applied if you use a certain facility IE Flights, TV etc they may feel like essentials but in principle they aren't.
My criticism wasn't a default endorsement of the UK situation but I would be very surprised if it turned out that France (I know little about Switzerland) is a more business friendly environment than the UK, from my experience this is certainly not the case but I would be interested to hear from people who have set up business's in both countries to get their feedback
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davidhammy, Do you know anyone who hasn't got a telly or a car and buys only zero rated goods?
Yes it would be interesting.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| snowyowl wrote: |
davidhammy, Do you know anyone who hasn't got a telly or a car and buys only zero rated goods?
Yes it would be interesting. |
Sorry, I wasn't being obtuse just pointing out that the maths was a little 'tabloid' that's all. I don't know of anyone who just buys zero rated goods but I know many people who don't have a car and don't pay their TV licence so in their position those are optional but I think we are side slipping away from the point of the thread so if you don't mind, lets keep it on point!
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it sounds like you end get taxed as a family rather than individual.
A quick calc suggest for every 70 euro you could charge assuming inc vat you'd walk away with 21 euro's, added to whatever the wife walks away with.
Would it not be beneficial to get divorced ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Would it not be beneficial to get divorced ?
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 When the alternative is to live on her nice Swiss salary and go skiing all day? Are you mad?
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| davidof wrote: |
| your income will be added to your wife's Swiss income and you will pay tax in that tranche. Say your wife is earning 90KCHF (a fairly low salary for CH), that's 70KEuros, every euro you earn will be taxed in the 70KEuro+ tranche |
I thought it worked so that if, say, OP's wife was earning 70k and he was earning 12k, they would both be taxed as if earning 41k, rather than it automatically being the case that he would be paying tax in the tranche that the higher of the two salaries falls into. Interesting to know...
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You know it makes sense.
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It works out that it's somewhat marginal (in Geneva, Cantonal tax being decided at cantonal level) it's somewhat neutral to be married or not from a tax p.o.v. Social security top rate is 14%. No idea really about tax top rate.
davidhammy, settiing up a business in France is in itself not a major problem, however employing staff is a total disaster. For you and them. The word "entrepreneur" doesn't exist in the French civil servant's code.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| snowyowl wrote: |
| davidhammy, If you are a 40% taxpayer in the UK,and a lot of people are, then add on the 20% Vat and you are already at 60% ..then there's the council tax, Tv licence, road fund licences, insurance tax, fuel tax, airport tax....I'd be surprised if it's under 70% even in the UK. |
For income tax you only pay the 40% on the bit you earn over the threshold i.e. Anything over £32k. Anything below that is charged at 20%. So no one will ever be paying exactly 40% income tax.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| hammerite wrote: |
| For income tax you only pay the 40% on the bit you earn over the threshold i.e. Anything over £32k. Anything below that is charged at 20%. So no one will ever be paying exactly 40% income tax. |
If you are unfortunate enough to earn around £277,450 per year you will pay 40%, although in this situation I would suggest employing a better accountant.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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kerb, I knew that there would be an amount, but couldn't be bothered to work it out!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| under a new name wrote: |
davidhammy, settiing up a business in France is in itself not a major problem, however employing staff is a total disaster. For you and them. The word "entrepreneur" doesn't exist in the French civil servant's code. |
That's what I suspected and it reminds me of the old adage that "Flying in air isn't dangerous, it's the crashing to the ground that might leave a mark".
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| miranda wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| your income will be added to your wife's Swiss income and you will pay tax in that tranche. Say your wife is earning 90KCHF (a fairly low salary for CH), that's 70KEuros, every euro you earn will be taxed in the 70KEuro+ tranche |
I thought it worked so that if, say, OP's wife was earning 70k and he was earning 12k, they would both be taxed as if earning 41k, rather than it automatically being the case that he would be paying tax in the tranche that the higher of the two salaries falls into. Interesting to know... |
Yes that is quite true as they would have 2 parts if married plus some allowances for any kids. Look I was trying to wangle him a ski season . 90kchf is quite a low salary by swiss standards though
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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yea i'd love to wangle being a gentleman of leisure and spend all winter skiing but she'd never let me away with it. appreciate the efforts tho davidof.
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BossCH, is there a particular reason why you're looking at border communiting (G permit) and not Swiss residence (B permit)? Many people are seduced by the lower housing costs in France, but tax in Switzerland (even Geneva) will be lower and social security for employees is less than 10%
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| eng_ch wrote: |
| BossCH, is there a particular reason why you're looking at border communiting (G permit) and not Swiss residence (B permit)? Many people are seduced by the lower housing costs in France, but tax in Switzerland (even Geneva) will be lower and social security for employees is less than 10% |
If you live in France and work in Geneva you pay tax in CH, not France. The only problem is if your wife/husband works in France. The difference in housing costs is eye watering. Social security is worth looking at though now the rules have changed.
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eng_ch, When we've researched it, the decrease in tax did not offset what you get for your money in terms of buying a house. We wanted a small place with a bit of land in a rural area, and that seems to be hard to come by in Switzerland.
Also we both want to be self employed after a few years so the commuting is only a short term plan, whereas the living location etc is part of a longer term plan.
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BossCH, I don't think it's that hard to come by in Switzerland in general, just Geneva in particular.
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FAQ
