I do understand exactly what you are trying to ask. My son started race training at about 6 but he was no where near as good as your daughter.
Race training in the UK 10 years ago was really not a pleasant experience, 3 hours in a dark and scarey empty town park on a 100m plastic slope in the rain can have a negative effect on the kids. After a couple of years my son started to rebel and would come up with all sorts of excuses not to go. We stopped taking him after about 2 years because it became apparent that he was starting to hate skiing despite the fact that he was progressing well. I would guess race training in Italy is significantly nicer
The club he went to was and still is well respected, but some kids really don't thrive on the all work and no play doctrine, my son was one of these. My advice is to watch and listen to your daughter very carefully, give her a chance to see if she likes it but don't be afraid to stop the training if she is not enjoying it.On the other hand she could absolutely love it and you might have the next Kostner on your hands.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
stewart woodward wrote:
Askaman,
Think about skiing like schooling. Lots & lots of basics, skiing all the mountain in all conditions, & specialise later on.
The boys I ski with are currently 7 & 8 and we have done 8 races in 2 seasons and very few 'gates' in between the races. We basically decide we are going to do a local ESF slalom/GS race and rock up without any special preparation. The boys think the races are something special and really enjoy them but there is no pressure to enter them.
Here's a little video of a 9 yr old Italian skiing a few gates
Hi Stweart, thank you for your thoughts and for pointing me on that video, this 9yo boy is very very good indeed!
Are you a coach? Is that boy someone you train? When did he start racing?
I agree that something we (parents) must absolutely avoid is pressure! Just helping kids enjoy what they do.
I do understand exactly what you are trying to ask. My son started race training at about 6 but he was no where near as good as your daughter.
Race training in the UK 10 years ago was really not a pleasant experience, 3 hours in a dark and scarey empty town park on a 100m plastic slope in the rain can have a negative effect on the kids. After a couple of years my son started to rebel and would come up with all sorts of excuses not to go. We stopped taking him after about 2 years because it became apparent that he was starting to hate skiing despite the fact that he was progressing well. I would guess race training in Italy is significantly nicer
The club he went to was and still is well respected, but some kids really don't thrive on the all work and no play doctrine, my son was one of these. My advice is to watch and listen to your daughter very carefully, give her a chance to see if she likes it but don't be afraid to stop the training if she is not enjoying it.On the other hand she could absolutely love it and you might have the next Kostner on your hands.
Thank you very much for your contribution, I'm sorry to hear that your son didn't have a good experience with race training, even if I'm sure you couldn't do any better: the environment play an important role too, and maybe our opportunity to have better "playgrounds" on the itaiian Alps, can help a lot.
Then also luck is important, the right coaches, and a nice group of teammates can create the right atmosphere.
My daughter is really enjoying what she does, she can't wait to go skiing every weekend,,no matter the weather is.
She loves watching ski races on tv, and she observe carefully what the athletes do.
She ask me and her coaches to do exercises on ski, and every run she try hard to make better following hints and inputs, something not so common for her age, and that's maybe why they told me she'd be ready for racing training.
I only want to preserve this attitude and positiveness, because I think she can develop her skills at a much higher rate without getting into boring and repetitive gate sessions, I'm quite sure that if she will be good enough at 8 or 9, it shouldn't be too late for starting focus on a race program!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
kooky wrote:
Quote:
you know what it means to plan 10 or more races a year, in different locations, warm up runs at crazy early hours, ski tuning and so on...
haha, try 40 races a year all over Europe as an 11 year old!
Why not just start off at local ski club level, I don´t know what country you are in, I may have missed it I am dim like that, but the kids here in Austria start off at about her age in "fun" local club races using stubbies not gates, these races progress to area races when they are about 8-11,(Bezirkscup)and if you are good enough there, you get picked to race the county races(Landescup) aged 11-16.
Then of course if she is still interested and doing well, she would go onto FIS races which are NOTHING like the other races, that´s when sh! t gets real.
I guess you got the point perfectly! And there is a reason why austrian athletes are among the best of the world, your school is a benchmark for all alpine racing skier......
stewart woodward, Bloody hell he's good, and the BODY (edited kooky) language tells you he's having fun, big time! Got a name we should look out for in about 9 years?
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 27-02-14 23:15; edited 1 time in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Samerberg Sue,
Quote:
and the bloody language tells you he's having fun,
hehehe………I had to copy that in case Sue edits it
After all it is free
After all it is free
kooky, Beeeetch! I'm on th friggin tablet and have just down a bootiful bottle of Thatchers 2012 Vintage Cider (7.4% a.v) on an empty stomach!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Samerberg Sue, LMAO, I have heard your "body" language at a few races……….don´t think I would call it having fun though
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ok. So a bit more info. Here they really limit race starts on an organised provincial level, they do that because whilst racing is useful experience for wanna be racers, its actually less useful than skiing , whether free skiing, technical skiing or some sort of gate training. That's because racing has a lot of hanging around and less actual skiing.
However because the province is big, when you do have races it can mean travel.
When they do gates, they aren't really gates. No full slalom until U14 (eg 12 and 13), before that stubbies, brushes and GS panels. I know they train full slalom earlier elsewhere, but chin guards make me nervous when the kids aren't heavy enough and I wouldn't want to see little kids in them as they can get neck injuries that way (or so I am told).
I think kids learn to be great skiers from a few different things:
terrain and snow conditions
from their peers
from good coaching (whether that's a parent or instructor or race coach)
Provide those and she will end up a great skier
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
WTF! She is amazing! I thought my 6 year old was good! Lol not anywhere near a patch on her! You must be soooo proud, but do you live in the Alps?
Not anything constructive to say about racing etc. sorry. but jeez she skis so good!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Samerberg Sue wrote:
Bloody hell he's good, Got a name we should look out for in about 9 years?
I was sent the link by an Italian friend. I will ask if she knows his name.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
gryphea wrote:
Ok. So a bit more info. Here they really limit race starts on an organised provincial level, they do that because whilst racing is useful experience for wanna be racers, its actually less useful than skiing , whether free skiing, technical skiing or some sort of gate training. That's because racing has a lot of hanging around and less actual skiing.
However because the province is big, when you do have races it can mean travel.
When they do gates, they aren't really gates. No full slalom until U14 (eg 12 and 13), before that stubbies, brushes and GS panels. I know they train full slalom earlier elsewhere, but chin guards make me nervous when the kids aren't heavy enough and I wouldn't want to see little kids in them as they can get neck injuries that way (or so I am told).
I think kids learn to be great skiers from a few different things:
terrain and snow conditions
from their peers
from good coaching (whether that's a parent or instructor or race coach)
Provide those and she will end up a great skier
Yes, ski clubs here in Italy do partecipate to a number of races every season (5-6 for U10 and 10 for U14) usually within the region of the resort (let's say for example that ski clubs in Val d'Aosta usually race within the local mountain resorts, like Courmayeur, Cervinia, Gressoney, La Thuile, Pila, Valtournenche etc) and every region do almost the same.
The youngest U10 do only GS, this year the youngest FISI category is for kids born in 2005 (my daughter is 2007)
"That's because racing has a lot of hanging around and less actual skiing".....I quote! I believe that it's better to spend time freeskiing instead of waiting.... so I would agree doing just a couple of races in a season at this early stage, just as a "prize" for their commitment.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Mollerski wrote:
I had a very similar situation with my son when he was also 6 (he's now 19). He had first weeks skiing one on one with an instuctor in Selva. At the end of the week the instructor took it upon himself to find our chalet to let me know that Joseph was the best Brit skier he'd ever seen (the instructor was well the other side of 50) and that if he were Italian, he'd be shipped off to the national elite ski school. After sniffing back the tears of pride, I then thought 'now what?' We live in west Cornwall.
At that time, no real help was available from the various UK ski bodies as we live miles from any UK facilities. I wasn't well off enough to buy a place in the Alps, so it was hard going.
I took Joseph back to Selva as often as I could for specialist training. He was allowed to train with the village FISI kids until the Mayor got wind of it and a couple of the instructors offered to train him in their spare time for free.
The upshot being, we have some great friends in Selva and my 19yo son is an bloody good recreational skier.
What a nice story - fabulous
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I watched the OP's video the other day and aggreed with many of the comments it generated - especially from Kooky.
We have a little girl who is 5 yr old and it was time to make our mid season ski vid for the g'parents so I thought i'd do it and chuck it on here too.
Mabel is a good skier. She started from about 3 years old. She has done 2 weeks of ski school per season. We ski at least once a week together as a family.
Now then... in context of the OP. We are discussing whether Mabel should join the town's ski club. She does want to and will really enjoy it but she is a slightly above average 5 yr old 'local' skier....
This is not intense race academy type training - it is the Austrian equivalent of an under 8's football club... But the laboured point I'm making is that she's good but ain't that special.
I had a very similar situation with my son when he was also 6 (he's now 19). He had first weeks skiing one on one with an instuctor in Selva. At the end of the week the instructor took it upon himself to find our chalet to let me know that Joseph was the best Brit skier he'd ever seen (the instructor was well the other side of 50) and that if he were Italian, he'd be shipped off to the national elite ski school. After sniffing back the tears of pride, I then thought 'now what?' We live in west Cornwall.
At that time, no real help was available from the various UK ski bodies as we live miles from any UK facilities. I wasn't well off enough to buy a place in the Alps, so it was hard going.
I took Joseph back to Selva as often as I could for specialist training. He was allowed to train with the village FISI kids until the Mayor got wind of it and a couple of the instructors offered to train him in their spare time for free.
The upshot being, we have some great friends in Selva and my 19yo son is an bloody good recreational skier.
What a nice story - fabulous
Eugenio, Joseph's first instructor, made a huge fuss of him whenever they met throughout the years, it was very touching. Sadly, Eugenio died a couple of years ago.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I've enjoyed reading the comments and thoughts on this thread...and yes...what a great little skier who looks to be having fun and enjoying life.
The comment that she enjoyed watching Racing, copying Racers technique, and asked for tips and pointers also made me think that she maybe drawn to Racing.
As an Instructor... I teach kids her age at least 3 days a week when the local schools visit.
I get to meet some really good skiers of the same age, but most just want to rip and have fun and aren't that interested in improving technically...so for your daughter to be so interested in improving, strikes me as unusual...and in my mind should be nurtured and developed...as it takes that type of mentality to get to the top and do well. You may well have a rough diamond on your hands.
I see it as a catch 22 in many ways.
You want your daughter to be happy and enjoy skiing...and to continue doing so. You want her to enjoy life now...but what about the future?
Does she have the strength, determination and self sacrifice to become a Professional Ski Racer?
Would she like to work in the Ski Industry either as an Instructor, Coach, Patrol etc,etc.....?
Or would she just like to carry on skiing for fun in her spare time?
All hard to tell at that age...
It's also a lottery on what type of Race Club and Coach she gets.
Her friends and Club mates and Peers will also prove a distraction that will affect her future.
Also do you yourself have the time, resource's and determination to Support your daughter if she was to become a Racer with promise?
Something to think about.
I say all this, as someone the wrong side of 30 who had 'promise' in a few Sports as a youngster.
Trials for Professional Rugby and Football teams and the opportunity to turn Pro at Golf when 18....but got distracted by girls and 'having fun'.
My Parents never pushed me as they had an attitude of 'as long as I'm happy', it was all good.
Looking back...I wish they had pushed me a little at points, instead of getting distracted...as I never fell out of love with those Sports, just became a 'jack of all trades'.
I came into Skiing at the age of 15 and fell in love with Racing.
It's now my passion...just wish I had come into at her age.
I get my kicks now out of coaching a few kids and the odd race myself...wish I had a kid like her with her passion to coach...they are a pleasure to work with when they are so passionate.
What I've tried to say in a long way round, is yes you want happiness for her now...but what a shame it would be if she came to you later in life and said 'I wish you had pushed me a little when I was younger'... no one would want to think 'what if' or have regrets...
Like I said...it's a catch 22.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Hi Spud, thank you for your beautiful post. You're right, it's a gamble when it comes to decide what's best for our kids.
Of course she is sporty beacause i'm a sportman, I did and still do sport professionally, so I 'm sure I influenced her to be active, to be determined and competitive, but too often I see parents trying to push their kids in search of those results they couldn't achieve.
I will help her develop her talents and if she will decide and demonstrate that she can become a good racer, I'll be more than happy to do all I can to support her, even if she will not become a real pro. At this stage she is involved in different sports (athlethics, gymnastic, swimming) and she is doing well (well above average) in all of them, thnaks to the same attitude she has with skiing.
I know that in the last years the New slant is to start doing sport professionally at an early stage, and the general belief is that if you don't become pro at 18 you're already too old, but I also think that if you really have a talent a couple of years at this age wouldn't make a difference.
Talking about gates training and races it's not proven that those who start racing so young then will become champions, like someone else said, early results, even good ones, don't mean too much.
There are different ways to achieve good results in sports, and I like to think that passion is the strongest and more powerful fuel to get what you wish.
Mikaela Shiffrin started to race much later than her peers, focusing more on drills than on races, and she become the youngest world champion of the history, Ted Ligety entered the US development team after he graduated from high school, so we have good examples of talented people that followed diffrent paths but climbed to the top.
Said that, as I wrote in a previous post, we are talking about people that grew up on the mountains, lived 365 on mountains, and spent more time skiing than walking....
I dont want to deceive myself or her, if I look at all the italians that became worldcup racers, almost all of them were people living on the mountains, sons of other racers etc., it's really difficult to excel otherwise.
As said to me is important that if she will decide to practice professionally a sport, she will have to do it seriously, no matter what sport will be and what results she will achieve, only I believe that at 6 years of age we still have time to understand what could be her path, if she really shows a particular talent, and have fun doing sport in the meanwhile.
What I say is that it's not too late even if I let her take it easy for a little while....
Thank you again for your contribute, and if you decide to come to Italy, Angelica and I will be happy to make a couple of runs with you!!!
..... And tell me......getting distracted by girls....wasn't that bad after all.....
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
TheGeneralist wrote:
Pedantica wrote:
TheGeneralist, well, I'd be proud of having a 6yo who could ski like that, wouldn't you?
Yes totally. I'm just not sure why he doesn't just post a message "here's a video of my daughter skiing. I'm so proud of her. Isn't she awesome"
He's sort of dressed it up as some sort of question/conundrum thing where he's pretending to look for answers to a question he hasn't really asked. Sort of false modesty type of thing.
Just come out with what you really want to say....
And just to reiterate, the kid is awesome. I'm dead impressed and I wish my 6 yearvold could ski like that.
It does come across as that, just wasn't brave enough to say it.
After all it is free
After all it is free
emwmarine,
Ah ah ah, yes you're right! We all lost time talking about kids and sport, and i would have done much better at asking about other's opinions and personal experiences on this matter without posting a video.....
Thanks for your contribute
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Askaman wrote:
Hi Spud, thank you for your beautiful post. You're right, it's a gamble when it comes to decide what's best for our kids.
Of course she is sporty beacause i'm a sportman, I did and still do sport professionally, so I 'm sure I influenced her to be active, to be determined and competitive, but too often I see parents trying to push their kids in search of those results they couldn't achieve.
I will help her develop her talents and if she will decide and demonstrate that she can become a good racer, I'll be more than happy to do all I can to support her, even if she will not become a real pro. At this stage she is involved in different sports (athlethics, gymnastic, swimming) and she is doing well (well above average) in all of them, thnaks to the same attitude she has with skiing.
I know that in the last years the New slant is to start doing sport professionally at an early stage, and the general belief is that if you don't become pro at 18 you're already too old, but I also think that if you really have a talent a couple of years at this age wouldn't make a difference.
Talking about gates training and races it's not proven that those who start racing so young then will become champions, like someone else said, early results, even good ones, don't mean too much.
There are different ways to achieve good results in sports, and I like to think that passion is the strongest and more powerful fuel to get what you wish.
Mikaela Shiffrin started to race much later than her peers, focusing more on drills than on races, and she become the youngest world champion of the history, Ted Ligety entered the US development team after he graduated from high school, so we have good examples of talented people that followed diffrent paths but climbed to the top.
Said that, as I wrote in a previous post, we are talking about people that grew up on the mountains, lived 365 on mountains, and spent more time skiing than walking....
I dont want to deceive myself or her, if I look at all the italians that became worldcup racers, almost all of them were people living on the mountains, sons of other racers etc., it's really difficult to excel otherwise.
As said to me is important that if she will decide to practice professionally a sport, she will have to do it seriously, no matter what sport will be and what results she will achieve, only I believe that at 6 years of age we still have time to understand what could be her path, if she really shows a particular talent, and have fun doing sport in the meanwhile.
What I say is that it's not too late even if I let her take it easy for a little while....
Thank you again for your contribute, and if you decide to come to Italy, Angelica and I will be happy to make a couple of runs with you!!!
No problem, it was a pleasure to add something to the conversation...as passion, happiness and the desire to do one's best, should always be applauded and is something to be proud of
I think if she has the skills...then it is her happiness, passion and desire, and mental strength that will dictate what happens in her future.
Without that...there is no point trying.
Here's a little video to give you some 'inspiration'...by Shiffrin and her Parents.
Interesting comments how she embraced drills and phoned in sick when it was free skiing!!!
Thanks for the offer to ski with you guys in Italy...I'll keep an eye out for you
Meanwhile I'm embracing minus 42 degree temperatures at a Ski Resort in Canada...now that really pushes the limits on 'passion' for skiing
And yes you are right... the girl distraction wasn't such a bad thing
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
Meanwhile I'm embracing minus 42 degree temperatures at a Ski Resort in Canada...now that really pushes the limits on 'passion' for skiing
Yes. Not a good weekend here. In fact its definitely been a colder winter than usual. Our U12s are cancelled for the first time this season (its that cold) ; they are going to a climbing wall instead!!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
gryphea wrote:
Quote:
Meanwhile I'm embracing minus 42 degree temperatures at a Ski Resort in Canada...now that really pushes the limits on 'passion' for skiing
Yes. Not a good weekend here. In fact its definitely been a colder winter than usual. Our U12s are cancelled for the first time this season (its that cold) ; they are going to a climbing wall instead!!
It's been mental hasn't it...had some really cold weeks here. We're closed tomorrow as it's too cold to run the lifts...
Although had a great day at Lake Louise on Monday last... no one was their...as the website said it was going to be minus 35 and put people off coming...the reality was it was minus 12 and a beautiful bluebird day...no lift lines what so ever
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I was thinking about Julia Mancuso, since she started in the race program at Squaw - kids start at age 4, basically just following their coaches around the mountain, and the only competition they have is within the program, basically just playing. Between ages 7 - 10 they have a choice - join the Big Mountain Team which focuses on freestyle and allows them to compete if they wish or join the Development Team which includes some more formal race training and local/regional competition but still has an emphasis on free skiing. From age 9 there are also the U Teams - USSA race teams, but these are by invitation only. It's not until the kids are in the USSA teams that we start to see them move to the mountains, around about age 13 or so, and if they do that then they are usually skiing in NZ or Chile during our summer as well. Up until then most just ski on weekends and holidays.
Askaman, My kids started holiday skiing at around 3 years old. As you little'un has, they also became very adept very quickly - at one point my daughter beat every local Swiss kid in her ski school class (she was only non-Swiss - about 12 in the class) during the end of week race. When they had every single 'level' medal sorted at 'conventional' ski school I asked the kids what they wanted and asked instructors on holiday what would be best for their long term skiing.
They could have done race training at ski school and could still be doing so on holiday and here in snow domes. However, they were not overly keen on idea of ski racing. Instead their instructors said that they could make just as much progress skiing the whole mountain, going off through tree line bits, a bit of safe off the edge of the piste stuff, playing in the snow parks and skier cross courses, taking small jumps, the odd through the racing poles trip and generally getting a variety of snow, terrain, and confidence under their skis I therefore opted for trips where I book them sessions with a private instructor and he takes them across the moutain to ski the bits I can't take them too. They have been doing this for a long time now and have become adaptable and confident little skiers (some SH's have skied with them so I will soon be shot down if this is not agreed with). They now, at 14 and 11, go off to ski definable, on-piste chunks of the mountain alone and when I spot them from a ski lift, they are a pleasure to watch. My daughter is a bit neater, and my son a bit faster - but I know they can cope with anything they find.
What I am getting at is that they don't need to race to become great little skiers - they can do just as well without and there is no telling if a 6 yr old would handle the pressure (though you know your own kid).
NB. Where on earth do you go to find pistes as consitently flat and well groomed as those? I think even I could have skied those blacks!!
NNB. If we are showing off the kids I'll see if we got any footage of my pair this year.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
stewart woodward wrote:
Askaman, Great picture
Thanks! And thanks for you videos, 3 little brilliant skiers! No doubts they'll become great racers with such coaches and parents!!!!
Megamum, thanks , actually I'm just observing her attitude, she just wanted to try a "real race" and did a GS of over a minute 2 weeks ago she won against 2 year older kids, even if she did very little gate training this year. SHe's been so thrilled to be first on the podium that now she can't wait to race again.
Next year she will probably join a ski club, but still there will be mostly freeskiing and no race program anyway. Then we'll see her tecnique and attitude.
Of course i'd love to watch some videos of your kids!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Askaman wrote:
No doubts they'll become great racers with such coaches and parents!!!!
Who knows
As long as ALL kids enjoy skiing, at whatever level, enjoy the mountains & want to ski/board anything else is a bonus