 Poster: A snowHead
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Ski guides should never have to buy their own lunch. But on my first lessons when I learnt to ski in Canada myself and a mate bought our instructor a nice bottle of wine. She seemed very pleased.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wow, really interesting responses! It's kind of nice to see that it raised an awareness for some people, I think that's a big part- people aren't sure whether it's the 'done thing' or not. I completely agree that tipping depends on the level of service but as I said above, I'm lucky in that I've never had a bad experience with a kiddy instructor- they have genuinely astounded me every time with how much they invested in the kids during the week, and how much it paid off in the end. nem, totally understandably- and you never know it might motvate the grumpy one to be a bit nicer in future 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Avalanche Poodle, I would agree with that
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Avalanche Poodle, I would agree with that
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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When I have used a ski guide for a day I always buy them lunch and would tip at the end of the day or period I ski with them . I have always had excellent guides so have always tipped .
(probably €20 per day )
If I had young children in lessons for a week who were having fun and learning I would also definitely tip.
On a group course I would agree something with the others on the course but as a minimum buy the instructor lunch and drinks after skiing
For a one hour private lesson I would not tip.
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my opinion on this is that you pay a lot of money for ski lessons and you should expect an acceptable service. if you get someone teaching kids who is grumpy then make your views known, you paid for it.
i would not tip a ski instructor as most i have seen are living the dream.
The couple i was in Zell with last week were first timers and went to ski school. One of their groups decided to tip the instructor 10 euros each so he got 100 euros which judging by the state of him about 2200 hours that night he spent on alcohol.
having spoken to a few they might not get paid a fortune for their ski school lessons but most of them do private lessons on Fridays and saturdays which pays them a lot.
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I don't know about that last bit mikeelsa, taking nixers on your own time can be seriously frowned upon... And re: living the dream- it's a great lifestyle but its hard work!! Living the dream on a shoestring maybe
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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no problems with him spending it on drink other than the state he was in at ski school the following morning. absolutely stinking of drink and looked like a burst couch. I would be sent home if i tunred up for my work like that.
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Yeah I don't agree with the whole 'living the dream' piece. Maybe if you're a gap year student with a nice trust fund, but not if it's your livelihood... A job is a job, they all have their pros and cons
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Have tipped the instructors on my two ski holidays so far. Been good service and they helped me greatly as a complete novice and then not such a novice. I know it is their job and not many of us get tipped for doing our own jobs but it was really just a thank you token for them to get themselves a beer or three. They are doing a job which in all likelihood they love and I don't think tips are expected.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We have for about the last 7 years been on Club Med holidays, where the lessons/guiding is included in the holiday price & so the group have tipped the ski instructor about €10 each....depending on the size of the group, the instructor can pick up a tip of about €120 at the end of the week. We also tip the chamber maids & last year at La Plagne for the first time, we tipped the restaurant waiter about €100 for keeping us 8 blokes supplied with wine during the week.
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Sorry mikeelsa, but you are talking absolute tosh.
Ski Instructors get paid only for the actual hours they work.
No salary element at all.
When you are there in peak weeks they are working every day, outside those few weks they may have no work at all for several days, even weeks, at a time.
Lessons are expensive, but your instructor is getting an hourly rate that is something around 20% of the amount you are paying.
Typical hourly rate of pay for instructors I know very well is £14-20 per hour. Sounds a lot? A FULL day of lessons is 6 hours. No sick pay. No holiday pay. Many ski schools require them to buy their uniform (£200 last season) and pay for their lift pass (albeit at a reduced rate of £500).
Living the Dream? Well they are in a ski resort all season. Paying rent, food and even tax. They will have paid a few thousand pounds to get that qualification.
You say they are doing privates on fridays and saturdays. If by that you mean private lessons through the ski school then they get no extra money per hour versus group lessons.
However if you mean black-market lessons, off the ski school books then you should know that is very rare and very risky. Ski schools have a zero tollerance policy, get caught...get fired, lose your season pass and often your work permit too (in Switzerland at least).
Tips are the difference berween just, only just, getting by, and having money for fun.
If you had a good time...TIP.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rungsp wrote: |
Sorry mikeelsa, but you are talking absolute tosh.
Ski Instructors get paid only for the actual hours they work.
No salary element at all.
When you are there in peak weeks they are working every day, outside those few weks they may have no work at all for several days, even weeks, at a time.
Lessons are expensive, but your instructor is getting an hourly rate that is something around 20% of the amount you are paying.
Typical hourly rate of pay for instructors I know very well is £14-20 per hour. Sounds a lot? A FULL day of lessons is 6 hours. No sick pay. No holiday pay. Many ski schools require them to buy their uniform (£200 last season) and pay for their lift pass (albeit at a reduced rate of £500).
Living the Dream? Well they are in a ski resort all season. Paying rent, food and even tax. They will have paid a few thousand pounds to get that qualification.
You say they are doing privates on fridays and saturdays. If by that you mean private lessons through the ski school then they get no extra money per hour versus group lessons.
However if you mean black-market lessons, off the ski school books then you should know that is very rare and very risky. Ski schools have a zero tollerance policy, get caught...get fired, lose your season pass and often your work permit too (in Switzerland at least).
Tips are the difference berween just, only just, getting by, and having money for fun.
If you had a good time...TIP. |
Very well put!! And +1 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rungsp, and another + 1 the other week a friend of mine had 12 hours booked the whole week 
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Poster: A snowHead
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When my children finish their weekly group lessons I normally give the instructor 10 euros , it's better than buying them a drink .
I with others hire a guides several times a year , we always pay for his lunch normal practice ! joined a group once who had no intention of buying the guides lunch so embarrassed paid for it myself .
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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don't know why you say i am talking tosh. that means the instructors i spoke to in Zell are talking tosh then cause what i have reported is straight from their mouths not mine. also at no point did i quote anything about a salary.
i accept they might not be rolling in it, but from what i have seen they have a decent lifestyle and ski every day which i assume is why they do it. a lot of people don't get sick pay or holiday pay and we all only get paid for the hours we work. I don't know many employers who pay you for sitting about at home.
the topic is about tipping and my point is that you pay a high price for ski instruction and i expect a good service for what i pay. it is not a job i would consider tipping. I may buy them a drink in a bar if i saw them but that is about it. I am certainly not tight either this is just my opinion.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just to open the debate a little more here is the answers from some ski schools about earnings
Ski instructors can earn £25,000 in one season
Alltracks Academy:
This would not be possible for the vast majority of ski instructors. There may be a handful of very experienced instructors with regular private clients built up over years of experience, who could command this amount of money. Ski instructing is a lifestyle choice where the benefits of skiing every day, living in the mountains and not having to step into an office are payment enough. However, skiing is becoming more popular and in top resorts like Whistler where Alltracks Academy is based, clients can tip very generously.
Snowskool:
Snowsport instructors work for the love of the job, not the money. However with the right level of qualification and experience a snowsport's instructor can make a very good living in a season - although, to my knowledge, £25k in a four/five month season may be pushing it a bit!
NONSTOP Ski & Snowboard:
Short of having your own successful ski school or being a top level instructor in a posh French resort with generous regular clients this is highly unlikely. If you sacrifice nice accommodation, don't take lunch breaks and generally graft your way through the season you should be able to save up a reasonable amount but it is unlikely to see you through a prolonged summer holiday until the following season. It's a lifestyle choice!
Flying Fish:
This would not be the case for a newly qualified, entry level instructor, however, may be something to aspire to and achievable with high levels of experience and qualifications.
Ski Academy Switzerland:
Yes true. As a fully qualified instructor you can earn £25000-£35000
Altitude Futures:
The only place you are likely to do this is in France after completing a BASI Qualification. This is the wage of a fully qualified ISTD Ski Teacher. The BASI Level 2 Ski Instructor (previously called the grade 3) can expect to earn 25CHF/hour in Switzerland.
EA Ski & Snowboard Training:
Those coming through our Instructor Internship program step straight into a job earning between US$/CA$11–13 per hour. We hear many stories (some first hand) about big tips from those working in the USA and Canada but the most assured way to make a good living from instructing is to make a commitment to stay in the game for a long time, increase your skills and certification level and make a career out of it. This can earn you big money, but make no mistake – this sort of cash is not going to happen in the first couple of years!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| mikeelsa wrote: |
i would not tip a ski instructor as most i have seen are living the dream.
having spoken to a few they might not get paid a fortune for their ski school lessons but most of them do private lessons on Fridays and saturdays which pays them a lot. |
I guess they're the two lines that triggered the debate Mikeelsa- but the point of the thread was to get different views, so thanks!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Aww now I don't know where the above came from, but the answers above do not address the question "What does the average ski instructor earn per season in a regular tourist resort". Whoever came up with the figure of £25,000 is having a laugh, and almost all of the respondents acknowledged how unlikely that is...
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| mikeelsa wrote: |
don't know why you say i am talking tosh. that means the instructors i spoke to in Zell are talking tosh then cause what i have reported is straight from their mouths not mine. also at no point did i quote anything about a salary.
i accept they might not be rolling in it, but from what i have seen they have a decent lifestyle and ski every day which i assume is why they do it. a lot of people don't get sick pay or holiday pay and we all only get paid for the hours we work. I don't know many employers who pay you for sitting about at home.
the topic is about tipping and my point is that you pay a high price for ski instruction and i expect a good service for what i pay. it is not a job i would consider tipping. I may buy them a drink in a bar if i saw them but that is about it. I am certainly not tight either this is just my opinion. |
Snowploughing down the nursery slope everyday isn't most people's idea of "living the dream" in a ski resort...
Just paying a high price is no reason not to tip. If you went to a Michelin-starred restaurant you'd still leave a tip, wouldn't you?
Your Zell instructors may not have been talking tosh, but they were talking from an extremely rare position. 99% of instructional positions are nothing like that.
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I don't expect tips, but am always happy when I get them. If you would tip in a restaurant why wouldn't you tip your instructor?
It's very hard to generalise about how much instructors earn because there is such a broad range, both within countries and within schools, I know a lot of people that won't break even from the season, I also know people who make probably $100k a year. Pay structures are different everywhere, personally, sometimes I do get paid for not working, sometimes I do get more for privates, that is quite unusual though.
Yes instructing is a great job, but it's still a job. The whole 'living the dream' stuff is why so many people can't make a decent living in this industry, if a job is perceived as desirable people will accept lower wages for it.
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I would be slightly more inclined to tip a guide than a teacher, because they have very high overheads, particularly insurance. Of course they also have many years when they are trainees and cannot earn money (except in a minor way in the later stages, as an Aspirant Guide, when they can only work under the supervision of a qualified guide.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I remember my first and my last ski instructors very well, different chaps, both with the same name. The first was certainly living the dream, no idea how he did it but, in the winter he was a ski instructor and in the summer he said he would sail his boat around Thailand.
My last ski instructor looked at me as if I was mad when I gave him a €20 tip after 3 x 2 hours of lessons and asked "what's this for?". At the end of the week we took our skis back to the hire shop where we found the ski instructor servicing some skis. Walked out the shop and noticed the shop was named after him. Turned out he seemed to own half the village!
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hammerite, they weren't called Herbert by chance?!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Nico
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ah, funny I know two Herbert's who'd have fitted that description a few years back
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hammerite, never tip the proprietor of a business!
| thedrewski wrote: |
| Just paying a high price is no reason not to tip. If you went to a Michelin-starred restaurant you'd still leave a tip, wouldn't you? |
And of course you are correct. But the average skier would not dream of spending €100 on dinner - but doesn't mind tipping in Pizza Express; yet €100 is what his hour's tuition might be costing him, and he has to buy three hours at once.
Of course, the 20k you might earn as a ski instructor is earned over four months, making it a 60k pro rata salary. Plus 'living the dream' - which is never what it's cracked up to be, but hey...
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You know it makes sense.
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If you are with an instructor for a week, and they do a reasonable job TIP THEM!!!
It is 10 euro out of your pocket after an entire week of their service, wanna do the maths per hour? its really not much out of your pocket!
If everyone in the group does it, that is say 100 at the end of a week, for the average beginner/intermediate instructor that is a LOT! More to the point, they will continue to try to do a good job! Why should they keep giving 110% when they see no return? you wouldnt do it at work so why should they!
They do hav a fun job but due to this they often get paid very little as there's always someone willing to do it for less! Look after them they can be the difference between an average week and the most fun holiday of your life!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Feel really guilty now. Not tipped kids' instructors ever. Will try to make up next time. Tipped ESF guy who took our family for an excellent group lesson (no-one else turned up) - he was very surprised and almost wouldn't take the tip.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
we always pay for his lunch normal practice
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I thought it was normal practice for the guide to take you somewhere for lunch where they get free food when their groups buys lunch?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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kat.ryb, I think that's a common misconception, and very much depends on resort. They might get a discounted meal, but definitely not necessarily free...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| Definitely the norm to tip in North America. As above, it's a very low paid job. |
No, it's NOT the norm at all.
I've taken many lessons. I went from not tipping (not knowing that's expected) to tipping (believing it's expected) to only tip when I got an "Aha!" moment! In the course of some many years skiing and taking lesson in the US, I observed tipping is still the minority though not rarety (on average ranges 25-50% of lesson takers).
This year is the first I started teaching at a small local hill near my house. Tipping is definitely a rarety here. I've only gotten tipped ONCE in 3 weekends of teaching so far. That's probably round 100 students that passed through my hand. That's similar to what I saw while shadow lessons. Tipping is more the exception rather than the rule.
Not to shoot myself in the foot. But it's really just a misconception that N America instructors EXPECT tips. No we don't. Or we'd be seriously disappointed!
(as for the low pay of N America instructors. It is low from the stand point of them being professionals and having to pass certain amount of training and exam. It's not any worse than other staff in the snow industry. With the occasional tips, it's enough to get by, though tough to make a decent living out of it as a sole career)
I have a regular job paying my mortgage so whether I get tips or not is not why I teach. That said, a pair of parents, whose had 2 very well behaved happy little ones in my class, tipped me a whopping $30 for a 1 hr group lesson! They "happen" to mention they'll be there again in 2 weeks. Well, I'll make my schedule such that I'll be there in 2 weeks time too. It's not so much the money, but the appreciation they shown that makes the teaching specially rewarding.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I once asked a Ski instructor what was a resonable financial tip.
He said he would accept any financial tip, irrespective of how large it was.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm amazed that a ski instructor could only get 1/8 of the ammount paid for a lesson. That is absurd. The overheads of a ski school are pretty minimal. If you are really only seeing 1/8 I reckon you should switch schools or set up your own. I'm serious.
As for tipping Eur 10 for a week's lessons, isn't that just patronising? We are paying something like Eur 650 for our our kids' lessons for the week (that's 12 hours of instruction). And as I said, the guy we book with owns the small ski school (plus a shop and part owns a small hotel). One way or another, he's not instructing for 10 euro tips. In their shoes I'd be more interested in warm thanks and respect for their professionalism.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I don't know about other countries, but in Austria you have to either hire or be a ski fuhrer if you want to set up your own school. That's not an easy qualification to come by, so not as straightforward as just setting up a pop-up stall in a resort!
And as for insurance etc, I don't think that suggestion is particularly practical?!
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abc is right - tipping is not the norm here in N. America, especially for group lessons. Private lessons have a slightly higher incidence for tips, but it's significantly less than most people would think. Pay scales vary from resort to resort, but it's not a high paid profession, although it has got a little better in recent years. There are some resorts where instructors may get a high percentage of the private lesson cost, but that's the exception rather than the norm.
While it is just about possible to make enough to live on for the winter, there are very few instructors that don't have another source of income, even if it's only in the form of a summer job that pays a lot more. Those that do make a decent living are working hard - working every hour possible and living frugally, not exactly "living the dream" since there's little time for free skiing.
Tips are never expected, but always appreciated.
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| chrisJersey wrote: |
| In the US, for example, it is virtually mandatory, as with all service related input. |
That's entirely incorrect, in more way than one.
The ONLY service that tipping is "virtually mandatory" is restuarants. In almost all other service industry, it really is this:
| skinanny wrote: |
| Tips are never expected, but always appreciated. |
As a ski instructor, I'd like to know you consider your time with me time well spend. You can show that with a big smile, or a pile of bills, or both.
Now that you know instructors in US only gets a tiny fraction of the lesson money. If you had a good time & learned something that makes your skiing more enjoyable, and it's not an uncomfortable stretch of your skiing budget, you have the chance to make a sizable difference in the instructor's income, would you care to offer a tip? (remember, tips are not "expected" so there's no such thing as a "too small" tip)
What I don't want is for you to hand me a tip reluctantly, trot away muttering to yourself "this is a blooding expensive way to waste an hour (or two)"!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Now that you know instructors in US only gets a tiny fraction of the lesson money."![/quote]
I feel sorry for most ski instructors that they only get a small % of what the punters pay. I enquired about a private lesson in Beaver Creek and was told $595 for a morning or afternoon but could be for upto 6 people. sort of defeats the object of a private lesson but at $595 plus tax i will not be taking up the option and will just enjoy the ski area every day.
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My GF gave me a days personal guding in Chamonix for my 40th.
I had a fantastic day which left me on my knees. I paid for his lunch and at the end of the day palmed him 50 Euros.
I had had a fantastic day and wanted to show my gratitude as I don't get much chance to do that sort of off piste.
He gave it back saying the days skiing had been his tip as he had never had so much fun with a punter.
Yes tip, if they have made your day at least try to make theirs!
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FAQ
