 Poster: A snowHead
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| davkt wrote: |
| I really don't undestand why Emily Sarsfield has been left out, as far as I can see she is higher in the world rankings than everyone who is going! |
According to the FIS website Emily is currently ranked 59th in the World while Andrew Musgrave is ranked 29th in the Sprint listings. As Dave Horsley says in one of his postings above you can't really directly compare World rankings between disciplines. As far as I can see Emily should have been selected I don't understand why she wasn't.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I was at the meeting in Meribel, April 2013 where the board of BSS made it abundantly clear that the bar had been set deliberately high to qualify for the Winter Olympics. Even though some of the same panel sat on different selection comitees i.e Alpine AND C/C, there were higher/different criteria for Alpine as opposed to C/C.
Furthermore there was absolute resistance to send Alpine skiers to the World Championships. "Where's the benefit ?" Konrad asked more than once. Dougie Crawford stood up and gave an informative , measured and polite reply, having been to a previous world champs. Sadly this fell on deaf ears.
Konrads stance still surprises/shocks me to this day, having been an athlete himself, I hoped he would be more pro ahtletes.
To sum up, I left the meeting and was not, I can assure you alone, feeling that Alpine skiers were an inconvenience to BSS and could go hang themselves. Apart from Dave Ryding who it was announced would get £xK towards his Olympic preparations, the only good thing to come out of the meeting.
Most of our athletes do not have personal funds to partake in this sport, relying on sponsorship for funding and non appearance at world class events does little to attract or retain sponsorship.
Rant Over best of British luck to all our athletes and para athletes going to Sochi, you have all overcome adversity, of one sort or another to get there, well done We will all be cheering you on.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Peter Thorn, Sorry yes, I know Andrew M is up there, guess it is typo in your post though as Emily is 39th according to FIS site as of 5 min ago!
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| Invictus wrote: |
I was at the meeting in Meribel, April 2013 where the board of BSS made it abundantly clear that the bar had been set deliberately high to qualify for the Winter Olympics. Even though some of the same panel sat on different selection comitees i.e Alpine AND C/C, there were higher/different criteria for Alpine as opposed to C/C.
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Once again there is this assertion that selection criteria was easier for cross-country than alpine. I don't believe this is the case or that there is a specific vendetta against alpine.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| davkt wrote: |
| Peter Thorn, Sorry yes, I know Andrew M is up there, guess it is typo in your post though as Emily is 39th according to FIS site as of 5 min ago! |
Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place on the FIS website. I took the 59th place from her Olympic FIS Points List but she is ranked 40 in the World Cup Standings. I'm sorry you'll have to help me here as I don't fully understand the Freestyle listings.
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Am I alone in being puzzled by Chemmy's inclusion?
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Peter Thorn, I am not having a go at the CC skiers at all. Just the difference in selection criteria difficulty. It was more difficult for the Alpine athletes to meet the criteria, for a number of reasons. No fault of the CC guys, but BSS & Paddy Mortimer.
The CC guys only had to reach a set average FIS point mark in any 5 races. No World rankings taken into account, No specific races to get the results in.
Their level above the IOC A standard was to reduce their points by around 13% - In Distance from 100 down to 87 & in Sprint from 120 down to 104.
Whereas the Alpine guys had to be ranked in the top 100 plus get either a top 30 in WC, a top 20 in the World champs or 2 top 10 in Europa cup. NO other races count!
Firstly they were not sent to the World champs, so that ruled that out. Secondly there is only 1 GB start slot for DH/SG in WC so they have to fight over that for a start and there has only been 4 races this season before the deadline. Lastly most of the Europa cup races have been cancelled this season. Only 3 DH and no SG before the deadline. So very little opportunity to get those places, actually 5 each.
A top 10 in EC or top 20 in World champs would mean a points score of around 20 and rank them in or around the top 100 in the world.
This would mean a reduction in points of around 75% from 80 (DH & SG & SC) down to 20ish.
Even if they had gone to a Nor-Am cup and won there and scored a 6 points results it wouldn't count. They could have won the complete Nor-Am cup series and that wouldn't count, yet the Nor-Am cup races are the same level as EC on the FIS penalty calculator
Also BSS do not look at Super Combined either, despite them both being well inside the top 100.
Dougie scored an 11 & 12 points by coming 2nd & 3rd at the Slovenian Nat champs DH ranking him in the top 60 in the world, but it didn't count.
TJ scored a 18 at a Wengen EC DH (11th) and 20 at the British Champs DH, ranking him 95th in the world. Neither counted.
So as you can see it was a much harder ask. And yes you can compare the World ranking list in CC to Alpine. There are very roughly the same amount of racers on each and the points are also roughly the same for the same world rankings. I agree you can't do it in any other events as there are far lees people competing, hence we have much better world rankings in those events, and better medal chances.
The past selection criteria was hard enough and perfectly adequate - in fact there would still have only been 4 Alpine guys going. Dave, Chemmy, TJ & Dougie, no one else.
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stewart woodward, No I don't expect any serious answers. In fact I don't even expect a reply to my email sent 3 days ago. I'm still waiting for a reply from several from last year. None of the Alpine guys have any contact with him, He's far too important for us 'Plebs'
I will be asking public questions at the British champs though.
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Dave Horsley, Yes Chemmy did meet the criteria before she broke her leg for the 3rd time! Alpine has 15 athletes who met the A standard, 8 men & 7 women, which actually meant we have 7 slots, the same as Spain which is an Alpine nation, so we did very well.
It is gutting for the guys that earned those A standard slots that BSS/BOA have made it so difficult for them to go. There was no need to make it harder for selection as there would have only been 4 going under the old criteria.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Peter Thorn, After a private meeting with Paddy Mortimer in 2012, along with TJ, Dougie & Dougie's parents, it was very obvious that Alpine was very much a thorn in the side of BSS. Too much to run a programme, to much hassle and not a chance to get a medal at the next Olympics to get funding from UK Sport. He is not interested in Alpine as he has no idea what it takes and can't even ski! He has never even been to any Alpine training camps and yet tried to put specific training programmes in place for the Speed team (Dougie & TJ). He even told TJ by email in April 2012 that he would miss these Olympics, 6 months before the selection criteria was released!
Even worse he told Dougie to his face at the meeting that his body was week and prone to injury, he had broken his ankle in training crash. His parents were there too, who are both GP's!
He sat there and told us directly that BSS would not support any Speed programme for DH & SG. So I know that BSS made it particularly more difficult for Alpine.
Invictus, I was totally gobsmacked at Konrad's reply at Meribel and his totally arrogant attitude - He knows best. The man is a complete @rse and totally out of touch with reality and what Alpine skiing is in the 21st century. He was born with a silver spoon and back then it was a sport for the rich. The standard now is much higher with the margins much closer and it is far more professional.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Plugboy, I hear nothing but awful things about Paddy... shocking really and Konrad's reply to me on FB wasn't encouraging at all for Emily let along TJ and Dougie. He has it in for Alpine and going out of his way to thwart those athletes in the sport.
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Plugboy, Alpine probably suffered worse than cross-country from the demise of SSGB. Alpine had more to loose in terms of direct support & funding whereas CC had received little support or funding. CC carried pretty much in its own self-funded furrow & that was probably an advantage. The funding that has come to CC in very recent times has come largely via SportScotland.
If half what you say about the BSS attitude towards alpine is true then it is shocking. I apologise if I sounded a bit sensitive to your comments or maybe miss-interpreted them but I know how hard CC skiers, coaches etc have worked & the sacrifices they have made to get where they are.
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You know it makes sense.
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Peter Thorn, As do all the Alpine guys!
Just read the assigned quota for Alpine in these Olympics. Glad to see that Iran, Greece & Kazakstan are sending more than GB, and that Cyprus, Brazil, Estonia & Thailand are sending the same! Hang your heads in shame BSS/BOA.
http://data.fis-ski.com/dynamic/assigned-quota-for-olympic-games-2014-sochi.html?sectorcode=al
I think it will be the first time in living memory that GB will not have someone in the men's Olympic Downhill & Super G.
Well done to Chemmy today for her 23rd in the Cortina WC SG - All the doubters!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I see we are sending the same number of athletes as Ireland for Alpine. Yes from what you say BSS's attitude has been very dissapointing, I would have thought BSS should have been fighting the athletes corner with BOA so that the qialfying criteria were fair. The alpine criteria seem particularly odd/bizarre as described by Plugboy, in that results from some FIS races and disciplines weren't counted.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Invictus, Thanks!! Are you from Devon?
skimottaret, Just had an email reply from Paddy trying to answer my question of disparity between Olympic selection criteria for the various snowsports.
He said you can't compare the various disciplines to each other.
This is also a paragraph from it, actually saying that Alpine skiing was fixed for world ranking points and couldn't be trusted!!!
"Simply put, it is as unfair to compare SL with DH as it is to compare XC with Alpine or Ski X. This is like comparing apples with oranges – each discipline is set at making top 2/3rds. In Alpine, the consistent majority of Olympic top 2/3rds come from the results stated in the OQS. If there was consistent records of athletes, not one offs, making top 2/3rds from outside of those standards then we would be able to adopt them, sadly there is not. Alpine also succumbs to the well-known fact that FIS points are blatantly fixed by ski racers entering races and pulling up. To marginalise this fact we adopted a race result, evidence based protocol, ruling out World Rankings and FIS points."
He is totally wrong! He is saying to all GB alpine athletes that BSS don't believe the FIS points system and you are not skiing your best to get to your level, it is done by cheating! Talk about kicking them in the teeth!
It just shows that he has no idea about Alpine skiing and is trying to push it to one side.
Probably, like a lot of sports, there are a handful of races a season where this happens, out of 1000's around the world. I'm sure it happens in Cross country?
In the 9 years(550+ races) that TJ has been racing FIS events right through to WC & World champs, there has been 1 race where it has happened. Julien Lizeroux stood up around the last 5 slalom gates at the Brit Champs in 2008, to help a young French racer, namely Alexis Pinturault!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Plugboy, I would send that to the BBC and get them to ask him to repeat his comments, my opinion of the idiots in charge has gone even lower than it already was, they should be forced to resign for that.
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D G Orf, Spot on! Think they are to proud of themselves to admit they have got things wrong and change their mind to do it right!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I am not sure who is currently more out of touch with reality and the wishes of their members, BSS or BASI 
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stewart woodward, Or both equally, and add BOA/Team GB to the out of touch mix.
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As a parent of two alpine racers in the U12 & U16 category, I have found the selection process for our atheletes completely demoralising. Our up and coming atheletes should be inspired and encouraged. It is quite wrong to leave guys such as Dougie Crawford to watch and not compete. It is a disgrace.
The move from childrens to FIs seems like a mountain to climb (on all levels)......this mountian is made so much bigger wth the utter negativity of our governing body.
Something has to change...no?
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Does anyone know how much it costs to send an Athlete to the Olympics?
Most of our Athletes are self funded and would probably get themselves their...plus accommodation is provided by Sochi.
I'm not understanding this whole farce.
Surely any perspective sponsers and promoters will be put off, if they know they won't have any exposure at the Olympics, one of the biggest viewed sporting events...
It's wrong in so many aspects.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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legburn, spud, Contact Paddy Mortimer , he is the person in charge and doesnt seem like Alpine events will flourish under his command.
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As a parent of two alpine racers in the U12 & U16 category, I have found the selection process for our atheletes completely demoralising. Our up and coming atheletes should be inspired and encouraged. It is quite wrong to leave guys such as Dougie Crawford to watch and not compete. It is a disgrace.
The move from childrens to FIs seems like a mountain to climb (on all levels)......this mountian is made so much bigger wth the utter negativity of our governing body.
Something has to change...no?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Spud
no doubt Plugboy will give us accurate figures but my understanding is it cost *BSS NOTHING to send an athlete to the Olympics, or the world championships for that matter, in fact they get paid to send skiers to the world champs !!
BOA foot the bill for sending athletes to the Olympics. I imagine that BOA get funding from the Government and so they should.
Having had a child at the Winter European Youth Olympics I can tell you that the BOA do a fantastic job , once you are selected to go. Everything is paid for and there is truly no cost to the athlete once you arrive at Heathrow Hilton the day before you fly out to the games .Food, travel, clothing etc all paid for even your equipment is whisked away at the hotel and sent free of charge. However well you perform, you are treated like royalty for one week of your sporting career.
Unlike the senior Winter Olympics, there are 4 male slots, and 4 female slots for the youth winter games and these are always filled, what a shame selection for senior Olympics is done differently
You cannot pay for yourself to go to the games, BOA do that. I think the cost is about £3k
* How much it costs BSS NOT to send alpine skiers to the Olympics, in terms of bad press, killing ambition, and possibly missing future Olympians is no doubt a matter of debate
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Anyone else notice that there was a British skier in the moguls finals - only he was competing for France because of the lack of GB funding 
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You know it makes sense.
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After watching the first 4 Alpine ski events I have come to the conclusion that world ranking points are irrelevant at the Olympics.
Today we have Innerhofer, a downhiller, coming 3rd in the combined event whilst the skiers ranked 1, 2 & 3 in the world rankings all DNF.
In the Olympics anything can & does happen.
This is why we should have sent more Alpine Athletes.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Scot_Ski, Good article and I have to agree it will come back and haunt them. Firstly in terms of competitiveness in future world class events. Experience is important in Alpine events; hence the average age being quite high. Secondly no displaced brits with nationality choices will ever pick Britain; people like this may hold the key to future funding, get one of these successful and you've secured funding for the entire sport (ie like skeleton).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What a sad waste of our home-grown talent. Maybe we should set up a 'snowheads' nation and field a team of Alpine skiers for the next olympics... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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gryphea, Yep, the BBC have mentioned a few people who are in other teams who could have been in Team GB. Sure some of them will owe their first allegiance elsewhere but I'm sure a few have looked and decided to go where whey will get the support they deserve!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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queen bodecia, Good plan!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The Independent Republic of Hemel ?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Or the United Snowheads Skiing Republic - that's got a familiar ring to it - haven't we already won a few medals 
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I saw this on facebook, posted by Emily Sarsfield's sister:
"Loved the Ski Cross this morning... Then had a look through the results.
Ironically BRONZE medal man Midol's performance wouldn't have been good enough for British Ski and Snowboard (BSS) as his qualification time wasn't within 4% of the fastest qualifier... who cares? I don't!
He raced his way to the final & got a medal! BSS have no idea... so my superstar sister won't get her chance tomorrow!! Idiots!!"
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"Emily Sarsfield does get times within 4% of the winner so just shows anyone in the heats can win! Midol came 47th in his last World Cup... and today 3rd!"
I think that about sums up the ridiculous Team GB selection criteria BSS have adopted for these Olympics, deliberately omitting an entrant invited by FIS who could certainly deliver a "credible" performance, and who due to the nature of the event (which BSS unfortunately seem not to understand) had an actual chance of winning a medal! 
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Alastair Pink,
+ 1 MILLION
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ditto
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+1
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FAQ
