... How can you quantifiably state it works better?
Tom from Austria wrote:
The customer is the king, isn`t he?
And the customer here is universally telling you "that looks inane and pointless"...
...with a negligible exception of over thousand buyers worldwide, ranging from California to Australia,
and few thousands other testers and "friends"...
Yeah, how to quantify the performance of an alpine ski? There is a serious modelling of regular shaped ski, reported by Swiss institute (Federolf et al) under the title "Finite element simulation of the ski–snow interaction of an alpine ski in a carved turn" published in Sports Engineering, 2010, Volume 12, Number 3, Page 123. Federolf found that /under normal conditions/ so called "carving ski" cannot really carve but it is wildly skidding aside. The sacred "radius" is nothing else than a house number! We are working on testing RaxSkis under equal conditions.
Yet even if you do not trust the experimental physics, you may be able to evaluate some facts when comparing regular ski with the RaxSki:
how easy is a ski turn.
Well, a shorter ski should have an advantage here. Moreover, when you lift its tip, the RaxSki will pivot on its rear fins having the total length of 10cm. 10cm is a little shorter than 160 or 180cm of your regular ski.
how good is the carved turn / we want to keep on carving, to avoid skidding aside
Well, the fins and wings can cut much deeeper than the sharpest ski edge, so holding the curve radius.
can I execute carved turns with radii between 1m and 40m on the same ski
The answer is YES for the RaxSki and NO for any other ski.
can I vary the radius during the execution of a carved turn
The same as above
There is a simple method how to evaluate the tracking of your ski: read your own tracks
Do you really think any other ski would hold the track on this >50° wall ?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 23-12-13 14:47; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Tom from Austria, when carving a turn what is the effective edge length of the ski (the one with the wings)?
All the videos I've seen of these skis shows technique which would be considered very poor on traditional alpine skis. Not that I care, providing people are having fun as they slide down the mountain is it anyone else's business how they do it? Of course, if someone turned up with Rax skis for a ski lesson with me I'd have to explain why I though they were a bad idea in terms of traditional skiing skills.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
If these are so fantastic at big mountain, why not sponsor someone to compete on the FWQ series?
Tom from Austria, when carving a turn what is the effective edge length of the ski (the one with the wings)?
All the videos I've seen of these skis shows technique which would be considered very poor on traditional alpine skis. Not that I care, providing people are having fun as they slide down the mountain is it anyone else's business how they do it? Of course, if someone turned up with Rax skis for a ski lesson with me I'd have to explain why I though they were a bad idea in terms of traditional skiing skills.
You are right, rob@rar (more than 29.000 posts on this forum, compliment!).
Although a Rax novice can start riding as if it were a regular carving or all-mountain ski,
he/she will find out very soon that this ski allows some more - the raxing.
Well, the ski with rear fins is certainly a "bad idea in terms of traditional skiing" - it is a revolution.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Very interesting thread...
highlights an issue which is unfortunately too common with businesses - especially in product design - of someone who is passionate about a product but doesn't stop to think about customer perception and adoption...
I have no idea about whether this is the most amazing new development in skiing or a total white elephant - but this thread shows that it is clear that some thinking from the customer angle might be a better use of time than too much further development
history is littered with companies who pump loads of money into products with no thought about the market, and similarly companies who make a fortune from products with little development but lots of market adoption!
Tom from Austria, Tom, what is piste is that please? I like the look of that
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
For a mountaineer wanting to get down quickly on crappy snow/ice I can see some merit . . . for wanting to show off on in very silly places, that will probably need better float than these to get to, there is some merit . . . but it is so niche that even the park rats won't use it and even if they do the guys building and maintaining the terrain are not going to be happy with the damage these will do to their careful shaping. They really are the equivalent of shoving breadknife up yer bum and sitting on a trash-bag.
After all it is free
After all it is free
red 27, L2A? just above the glacier pool?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Masque, is that blue or red?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
jimmer wrote:
If these are so fantastic at big mountain, why not sponsor someone to compete on the FWQ series?
Yeah, jimmer, somehow we do not trust big commerce. Our strategy resembles the "grass roots", surely not the top-down approach.
We have already gained 3 investors on a license of "Draggons Den" - and are quite happy that they`ve disappeared again.
So our real and potential customers are skiers like you and me. They are not able to ride steep lines with all_mountain skis.
With RaxSki they will cautiously try and find very surprised that it is possible now - and save enough.
Another aspect : extreme skiing is so unrealistic (athlete swimming with huge avalanche over high clips and laughing at the end).
But we are opened to any excellent freerider and will support him/her with all means available. Welcome in the Rax Team!
Forget the skidding skis you have ridden up to now
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Masque wrote:
... the guys building and maintaining the terrain are not going to be happy with the damage these will do to their careful shaping. ...
The opposite is true, Masque! The "Raxing" never creates moguls on groomers. Because the Rax rider simply does not skid like all others.
His ski is the real CARVER.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I'm still not convinced, but I am getting more curious......so where can I get a pair to demo? You say you've sold some in California......
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Tom from Austria, I'm talking about in the park . . . and while we're talking about bumps, how the hell do you pivot with that inverted rudder
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
red 27 wrote:
Masque, is that blue or red?
easy green, just right for sending an ESF crocodile of ankle-biters down
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Masque wrote:
... and while we're talking about bumps, how the hell do you pivot with that inverted rudder
An excellent question! Lean back and twiddle your toes into a new direction?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rob@rar wrote:
Masque wrote:
... and while we're talking about bumps, how the hell do you pivot with that inverted rudder
An excellent question! Lean back and twiddle your toes into a new direction?
Exactly!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Tom from Austria wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
Masque wrote:
... and while we're talking about bumps, how the hell do you pivot with that inverted rudder
An excellent question! Lean back and twiddle your toes into a new direction?
Exactly!
Oh dear!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
If these are so fantastic at big mountain, why not sponsor someone to compete on the FWQ series?
Yeah, jimmer, somehow we do not trust big commerce. Our strategy resembles the "grass roots", surely not the top-down approach.
We have already gained 3 investors on a license of "Draggons Den" - and are quite happy that they`ve disappeared again.
So our real and potential customers are skiers like you and me. They are not able to ride steep lines with all_mountain skis.
With RaxSki they will cautiously try and find very surprised that it is possible now - and save enough.
Another aspect : extreme skiing is so unrealistic (athlete swimming with huge avalanche over high clips and laughing at the end).
But we are opened to any excellent freerider and will support him/her with all means available. Welcome in the Rax Team!
Forget the skidding skis you have ridden up to now
FWQ isn't big commerce, and it's pretty much the grass roots of free ride skiing (and actually I compete on it). I'd say it's more likely the reason is that no-one would ever want to jump off a cliff with blades on their tails, but hey, show me someone doing it and maybe I'd try too.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
jimmer wrote:
...
FWQ isn't big commerce, and it's pretty much the grass roots of free ride skiing (and actually I compete on it). I'd say it's more likely the reason is that no-one would ever want to jump off a cliff with blades on their tails, but hey, show me someone doing it and maybe I'd try too.
Ok, jimmer, let`s talk about it. Are you free or just under contract with some sponsor?
Of course you could start with a RaxSki provided that the reglement of FWQ this alows.
One of the world`s best DH speed skier is starting something like that.
More to the point they look goofy, people skiing them look goofy (it's essentially the know no better punter powder technique) and I don't quite see the application. I would suggest microfins that are positioned down the length of a longer ski with a possible refinement to one continuous and not very deep fin... One could call it an 'edge'. IMO it would allow for more varied turns in a position where the balance was more normal.
See you again at the start of next season Tom!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
meh wrote:
Rax skis actually make me pause to consider Tele.
More to the point they look goofy, people skiing them look goofy (it's essentially the know no better punter powder technique) and I don't quite see the application. I would suggest microfins that are positioned down the length of a longer ski with a possible refinement to one continuous and not very deep fin... One could call it an 'edge'. IMO it would allow for more varied turns in a position where the balance was more normal.
See you again at the start of next season Tom!
Ok, telemark is a sport. I admire these guys but have never had problem to overtake them in some steep couloir.
It is like shooting at birds with a bow, compared to a modern gun.
Microfins positioned between the ski tip and the binding - it is a straight way to a hell. Be carefull. All control elements produce some deceleration, so they can easily screw the ski if they are not positioned near its end. The best example is the radically shaped edge at the ski tip - the cause of hunderd thousands ruptures of crucial ligaments in the last 20 years.
Well, the balance on the RaxSki should be normal. The "leaning back" is just necessary for very fast turns or for turns on moguls, chunks or crust.
After all it is free
After all it is free
What about switch?
What about spinning on the flat (either 180 or 360)?
What about skating?
All 3 things are perfectly normal and reasonable and the last one even goes into the territory of "required" in the vast majority of resorts. All 3 things look to be impossible in those.
I've skied all over the world, including lots of Europe, Canada, the US and even Japan and have never encountered only the conditions you state they're advantageous for. I just fail to see the point in any remote way...
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Why not come to a bash and bring them along. You can ski on them toshow what they are like and then give people a go on them.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
thedrewski wrote:
...
I've skied all over the world, including lots of Europe, Canada, the US and even Japan and have never encountered only the conditions you state they're advantageous for. I just fail to see the point in any remote way...
Are you saying you have never encountered moguls, mashy snow, ice plates, tracked powder? You are a happy man, thedrewski!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
glasgowcyclops wrote:
Why not come to a bash and bring them along. You can ski on them toshow what they are like and then give people a go on them.
Yes, yes, yes... just tell me the time and the place!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Tom from Austria, .... it's 11.00 hrs in Austria on Christmas morning, WTF are you not on your RaxSkis enjoying the day? Rather than posting on a UK ski-forum as opposed to an Austrian ski-forum where you could more easily tackle your sceptics. I should be out in Arlberg region in a couple of weeks, I'll PM you beforehand and blag a day on your RaxSkis.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
skimastaaah wrote:
Tom from Austria, .... it's 11.00 hrs in Austria on Christmas morning, WTF are you not on your RaxSkis enjoying the day? Rather than posting on a UK ski-forum as opposed to an Austrian ski-forum where you could more easily tackle your sceptics. I should be out in Arlberg region in a couple of weeks, I'll PM you beforehand and blag a day on your RaxSkis.
Please PM me then!
In Austria we are having a sunny weather /18°centigrade today. Anybody heard the word snow?
So my world is the web, simultaneous discussions on Snowheads, Tetongravity (US) and Freeskiers (DE).
Next week, we should start in FR, AT, SP, NO, PL, RU and maybe in Japan. The last one offers just restricted access over censors.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
thedrewski wrote:
What about switch?
What about spinning on the flat (either 180 or 360)?
What about skating?
...
Yeah, the RaxSki is neither a twin tip nor a snowboard. It`s a "one direction" vehicle like an airplane, car or a regular ski.
But it performs better in this one direction than a twin tip in any of its two directions.
Fackie is possible on ski without twin tips but not a rule. You may think I am crazy but I do believe that there is a life beyond "fackie"
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Thu 26-12-13 21:28; edited 1 time in total
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Tom from Austria, Get your hair cut!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
red 27 wrote:
Tom from Austria, Get your hair cut!
You will be disapointed but I am neither blond nor a pretty woman.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I fail to see how these can perform adequately when hitting kickers/jumps and riding on steep, bumpy terrain. What happens when you catch a bit of air and don't quite get the forward rotation? On regular skis you just ride the rear, maybe even end up nearly sitting down on the back of the ski, but it catches you and you can ride out. On these... Well, how do they fare? You tell me.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rasmanisar wrote:
I fail to see how these can perform adequately when hitting kickers/jumps and riding on steep, bumpy terrain. What happens when you catch a bit of air and don't quite get the forward rotation? On regular skis you just ride the rear, maybe even end up nearly sitting down on the back of the ski, but it catches you and you can ride out. On these... Well, how do they fare? You tell me.
Fine question, rasmanisar!
Believe me that rear fins will master the situation when you "end up nearly sitting down on the back of the ski"
much better than a regular ski. The reason is that fins will immediately cut very deep in the surface, such slowing rapidly the ski.
But they cannot brake your body. The consequence is that you will automatically stand up (=get the forward rotation).
This physical phenomena is generally the reason why RaxSki doesn`t let skier fall on his back. In spite of very short ski tail behind the boot. This mechanism works the better the faster you ride.
"how RaxSkis can perform adequately when ...riding on steep, bumpy terrain".
Don`t you think that the first video in this thread shows a bumpy terrain?
Steep, bumpy terrain is where we normally demonstrate the dominance of RaxSki over regular skis.
Here is one of older videos, recorded by our friends
That video shows someone going quite slowly through a slightly cut up piste and some off piste, none of which frankly looked steep, and even less of it bumpy. All of it however looked very, very lame with the 'skier' seemingly sitting right on the tails of the 'skis' and waggling the tips about a bit. Looks crap to me.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Tom from Austria wrote:
Yeah, the RaxSki is neither a twin tip nor a snowboard. It`s a "one direction" vehicle like an airplane, car or a regular ski.
There is no way a "regular ski" is one way only, you can ski both directions on them with extreme ease and you don't have to leave the ground or stop to do so.
Tom from Austria wrote:
Next week, we should start in FR, AT, SP, NO, PL, RU and maybe in Japan. The last one offers just restricted access over censors.
Yeah, the land where buckets of powder is the norm, they'll work a treat out here...
...none of which frankly looked steep, and even less of it bumpy. ...
Is this one steep enough for you, rogg ?
Well it was nearly a free fall, just slowed down by deeply carving rear fins of the shortest Rax model, the Joker.
Regular ski simply has to execute jump turns on this slope. RaxSki makes it straight in the fall line.
As soon as we get extreme moguls here in Eastern Alps, we will post a new "BUMPS" video on Snowheads, Just wait a little...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Wish you a nice day at Aviemore!
http://www.aviemoreski.co.uk/index.asp?pageid=287110
Just an advice if you should ski Rax the first time: never stay in "toilette seat" for long time, combine short turns with long ones, change you standing.
Radical leaning back is only necessary for very fast turns, steep terrain or bad snow conditions like crust, mashy snow, bumps, tracked pow etc.
Please greet the boss Bill Wilson at Aviemore and tell him about this hot thread.
Best wishes for your birthday, glasgowcyclops. Hey, that day is also my wife`s birthday, so I should buy a present and stop talking about skis.
Thank you that you`ve remembered me!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Tom from Austria is unfailingly polite...shame a few of his detractors cannot be the same.
I've never tried them, and probably never will, but give the guy a break.
He has developed a niche product, it seems to work very well indeed in what might be called niche terrain and niche conditions.
So what if the style that suits these best is not as aesthetic as the style that suits mainstream skiing best?
It's not for me, it's probably not for you, but why the hate?
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
