 Poster: A snowHead
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Legend., + 1
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Even TKMaxx seem to have latched onto how poular Icebreaker is. In the past I've got 1 or 2 pieces at half price but this year they only seem to have about 25% off. There are often other merino makes in there at good prices though. Sportpursuit have regular Icebreaker sales.
I've got a HH Merino mix top which is very good and I recently bought a Devold merino top from SP which initially feels itchier but I haven't worn it in anger yet. I bought some cheapish merino bottoms from Mountain Warehouse which started to fall to bit after one trip, I guess you get what you pay for.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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RE Itchy Merino - yer supposed to remove the sheep from the wool first.
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All my Hellys are the non-smelly merino version. I don't find them itchy, but some people are more sensitive than me. I mostly got them from Sports Direct I think (the website, I can't be doing with digging around in their stores), where they can be bought cheaply as long as you're not too fussy about the colour. Consequently, my baselayers are all fetching shades of pink, orange and blue.  The OH payed slightly more for the traditional shade of black.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| andy wrote: |
| Cotton gets wet. Wet and cold don't mix. |
This is generally, but not universally true... Ventile makes a splendid cold-weather outer layer, for example. Probably be a bit uncomfortable to use as a base layer, mind you.
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| Quote: |
Cotton gets wet. Wet and cold don't mix.
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True, in theory. However, being super-fit with the technique (and physique) of a God I can't remember the last time I broke into a sweat. If the moisture is coming from outside, then a. You're a twit for skiing in the rain, b. Your ski jacket leaks.
Joking apart I rather suspect that, for the vast majority of us, there is little likelihood of getting your base layer / string vest damp. Banish the plastic and use natural fibres. 
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I use the same gear on the bike too. Deffo break in to a sweat there. (edit: and I ride all year round, from -5 and snow up to +35 and sun)
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Okay good to see I'm not alone. As for wearing it for a few hours I'd like to clarify that I left the house at 10:00 am and got home at 9:00pm which included pre and post match beer. So, no I wasn't sweating but was too warm for the post match pub which had a real fire!!! Base layer is cocona tog24 and mid layer was a cheapo dare2b 90% polyester number. Reading this I suspect the dare2b maybe the offending article (and my pits of course). Plenty advice for going forward so thanks all.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Me and OT will vote for merino too. As it will easily do a week skiing saves on your baggage weight too.
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Tog24 are really pushing cocona (my daughter worked there as a Saturday job until they closed the branch recently). I don't know how good it is though. As I filled my boots a bit on her discount before they closed I've a cocona mid-layer so will have more idea this winter. I got a merino top as well which isn't that practical for skiing as it has a built in hood, it was dirt cheap though, about 80% discount 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've got a couple of tog24 base layers and never had an issue with them at all - different strokes I guess..
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've got some synthetic/cocona base layers (marmot midweight, now apparently discontinued  ). The cocona seems to do an excellent job of stopping nasty smells... I've had em for a couple of years now and got a reasonable amount of use out of them, and they're still nice to wear.
With regards to hooded mids... if they're close enough fitting, you can stick the hood under a helmet which is nice when it is really cold (and helps keep powder out of your inner layers when you faceplant!)
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Joking apart I rather suspect that, for the vast majority of us, there is little likelihood of getting your base layer / string vest damp. Banish the plastic and use natural fibres. |
If you've found a way to be reasonably warm at 3500 metres without sweating at 1500 metres, good for you.
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You know it makes sense.
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| dogwatch wrote: |
| If you've found a way to be reasonably warm at 3500 metres without sweating at 1500 metres, good for you. |
If he had, I doubt it will generalise. People's ability to get warm and stay warm varies dramatically (see also: all the threads, every year, from people who are too cold).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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dogwatch,
| Quote: |
If you've found a way to be reasonably warm at 3500 metres without sweating at 1500 metres, good for you.
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Taking an Environmental Lapse Rate of 6.5°C per 1000m you will end up with a temperature difference of 13°C between those two altitudes. That's not a massive difference, so unless you are working really quite hard I can't see a major problem. I honestly think most of us can cope with light exercise on that basis without sweating. Maybe I'm just not skiing hard enough!
Actually, I think so much of it boils down to how hard you ski (and the fact that a lot of people see the snow and over-dress).
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Poster: A snowHead
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Taking an Environmental Lapse Rate of 6.5°C per 1000m you will end up with a temperature difference of 13°C between those two altitudes.That's not a massive difference |
Not massive? Going from +3 to -10 seems like quite a substantial change to me! Higher altitudes are more likely to have stronger breezes too, for a nice windchill bonus. That can also mean rain at the base, and deficient shells with cotton underneath in rain is not a good combination.
Regardless, changing your outfit because you are too hot is a pretty trivial exercise... you can always strip off your mid, or open up vents, and the next day you can wear something a bit less toasty but you can finish the day and just be a bit sweaty. Underdressing and finding yourself too cold will do an excellent job of ruining your day, or at least severely depleting the amount of skiing in it. See also, all the threads where people complain about the cold, and the distinct lack of threads where people say they're too hot and don't know what to do about it!
On a related subject, if you've got cotton layers against your skin and under a shell and you do get damp... a fall in softer snow, or a 'friend' with a snowball, etc, you've got a good chance of staying soggy all day which will not likely combine well with a 13 degree temperature drop.
And that's not even considering shell breathability... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It could be much more than 13C in a dry air mass, 9.8C per 1000m so could have almost 20C difference.
Ofc there might be an inversion giving almost no temperature drop.
I've not had any real problems myself but I can see how I might during more unusual weather conditions.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Also, the rate of sweating really depends on what type of skiing you are doing. If you are off piste, touring or tanking high speed turns then you are likely to be perspiring quite a bit, even if you don't always feel it. Even with just a thin top and a shell with pit zips I get overheated rapidly when I am really breathing hard. And I'd consider myself fairly fit and used to long duration exercise.
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It must be nearly time, or I'd not be wasting my time talking about smelly underwear with blokes. Well I assume you're blokes; if you're women then obviously I'm in the right place.
Personally I used T-shirts and never had an issue. I always do my zips up and don't fall much, and never on flats. I never walk for my turns, so... yeah, cotton is fine, in those circumstances.
I've plenty of "icebreaker" stuff but I really don't like the feel of it on my skin... it feels itchy.
A season or two back I switched to lycra "compression" stuff, which works pretty well. I'm not sure it's any different from old t-shirts, but it too works.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Serriadh, Avalanche Poodle, Theoretically, you are absolutely right. However, I've never actually found there to be a real problem in practice. Anyway, as I have already made very clear, I don't so much as ski down a mountain but glide effortlessly a few inches above the snow surrounded by an aura of perfection and weighed down only by a halo of righteousness and the burden of being so good looking. Sweating and skiing are not activities I do simultaneously.
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I'd say the main benefits of merino base layers are they are 100% natural, they regulate body temperature better than synthetic, naturally anti bacterial (odor resistant), and they'll keep you warm even when wet.
The drawbacks to the best of my knowledge are that they don't wick as fast, and with 100% New Zealand merino clothing the cost ranges from steep to ridiculous.
In my experience the cheaper merino products don't perform as well as icebreaker or equivalent brands because firstly many are part synthetic/part merino and secondly they will rarely come from New Zealand (where sheep get the best and worst weather so the wool learns to regulate body temperatures in the hottest and coldest climates).
There are odor resistant synthetic alternatives on the market; I have a couple of berghaus base layers which I bought for £25 (cheepest icebreaker is around £35-£40) which are treated with Polygene; A man made anti bacterial treatment for garments. I have to say they work brilliantly, I would definitely recommend, but where they fall short (as with all synthetics) is that when you get all sweaty and you sit on a lift or take a break then the cold goes straight through.
Last year I wore the same icebreaker base layer for near enough 4 weeks when skiing in Italy (not proud of it) and although it was not fresh it didn't smell bad at all. It was the thought of it that was worst of all.
In case you can't tell I'm a big icebreaker fan because, although they are expensive, I only have about three of their base layers each a different weight and that's all I really need.
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| cammyammy wrote: |
| There are odor resistant synthetic alternatives on the market... I would definitely recommend, but where they fall short (as with all synthetics) is that when you get all sweaty and you sit on a lift or take a break then the cold goes straight through. |
What 
I have never experienced what you've just described, and I don't recall anyone else mentioning it either. If you get cold when you stop, you're underdressed. Were you actually wearing warm synthetic base layers, or were they just lightweight, thin wicking tops? I can't imagine how else you could have come to this conclusion.
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Serriadh, he's not the only one - if I get properly sweaty (eg from skinning) synthetic layers don't really dry out that quickly (despite what the blurb says) - so I find them quite unsuitable, particularly for skinning when it is cold. wool may not smell too bad but it gets horrible and damp and drys out even more slowly
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Arno wrote: |
| Serriadh, he's not the only one - if I get properly sweaty (eg from skinning) synthetic layers don't really dry out that quickly (despite what the blurb says) - so I find them quite unsuitable, particularly for skinning when it is cold. wool may not smell too bad but it gets horrible and damp and drys out even more slowly |
Ahh, but they didn't say that... they said that wool doesn't suffer from that problem!
Not all synthetic base layers are created equal. If you're wearing one that's holding moisture close to the skin, get something else with a thicker, fluffier inner surface. Powerdry is nice. You'd have to sweat a hell of a lot to saturate that, and if you are sweating that much its a clear sign that there's something very wrong with your outfit.
As another alternative, there's always mesh base layers. I've got a sexy Aclima Coolnet top to try this winter. Have you tried anything like that?
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 27-11-13 11:07; edited 1 time in total
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| Arno wrote: |
| Serriadh, he's not the only one - if I get properly sweaty (eg from skinning) synthetic layers don't really dry out that quickly (despite what the blurb says) - so I find them quite unsuitable, particularly for skinning when it is cold. wool may not smell too bad but it gets horrible and damp and drys out even more slowly |
That would suggest the mid and outer layers aren't breathable enough. I have encountered this sensation myself, but not when I'm wearing my ski kit, normally when I'm doing something that becomes unexpectedly active and I'm wearing too much on the outer layers so end up sweating more, but not breathing enough.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Serriadh, yes - got a couple of Aclima tops when it was on Sportpursuit. Mesh + a very light windbreaker is my preferred combo for skinning now. Looks sexy in the bar afterwards as well
feef, no, I can wet out a baselayer skinning even without any other layers on top. on the way down, i've been using a mix of Goretex Proshell or Patagonia softshell (the stuff without a membrane) so not sure you can get much more breathable than that. the baselayer does get less wet, but still damp enough to make me feel cold
before i discovered mesh, I had started taking the base layer off at the top of a skin (which my skiing partners loved, obviously) and that made a massive difference
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A couple of years ago, I bought some sports tops from mountain warehouse, their own brand is fairly cheap and hardly any weight to them, they are warm when worn under a tee shirt. I use them for skiing and hiking and jogging in winter, not had any pong yet. They also do a Merino line.
http://www.mountainwarehouse.com/mens/base-layers/
Not sure how to insert links on here
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You know it makes sense.
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Yeah I was referring to when I'm out touring, in which case I can wet out a base layer (with nothing else on) even on some really cold days. Also when teaching beginners and I'm running around a lot under a hard shell (uniform) and I get a lot of condensation. In either situation I find the wool keeps me warm even when soaked when I take a break. At the top of a skin I usually throw on a mid layer and although my base layer stays wet for a short while I don't find it uncomfortable.
But no when skiing normally I don't sweat that much!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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whilst not made to be used as a base layer, has anyone used Uniqlo merino jumpers http://www.uniqlo.com/uk/store/goods/078687#thumbnailSelect - I'd imagine if you bought it small enough to fit like a base layer this would work or is there a difference between this merino and that used in say Icebreaker?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The price looks ok.
If its not graded to 11-24 micron woolboard stds as NZ Icebreaker is, use a firm fit polypropylene baselayer under it like the Norwegians do .
You can warm water hand wash merino with a few drops of lanolin oil so the wives say to help the itch but don,t felt it with agitation or use detergent.
Even some wool wash brands are still detergent.
Mostly you don't need to wash merino just air it out then it just does its magic.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 20-04-14 20:53; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Has anyone tried out one of the rab meco base layer? It's a merino synthetic hybrid and apparently inherits the best properties of both synthetic and merino base layers? Would particularly like to know what the touring guys think about this type of fabric....
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I've been trying my new Devold merino top out on the bike for the last week. It's not itchy at all, is fairly warm (it's a fairly thin one) and after two 3 hour rides still smells quite sweet. I'll use it for the rest of this week to give it a real testing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| awachsmann wrote: |
| whilst not made to be used as a base layer, has anyone used Uniqlo merino jumpers http://www.uniqlo.com/uk/store/goods/078687#thumbnailSelect - I'd imagine if you bought it small enough to fit like a base layer this would work or is there a difference between this merino and that used in say Icebreaker? |
I use both Uniqlo n Icebreaker. Icebreaker are the bizniz.
But Uniqlo are not bad...not as soft next to the skin and starts to pong a tiny bit after 2-3 days (so maybe not 100% merino??) Be sure to wear it inside-out as the seams will irritate. I picked them up for a tenner in the sales and use as a midlayer nowadays. I would never wear the artificial stuff and I wish others wouldn't either 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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What happened to the page width? Did I do that?
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| ALQ wrote: |
| What happened to the page width? Did I do that? |
Not you, It's the mega long link url the screws up the page width.
Use this code for massive url's
| Code: |
| <a href="mega long link goes here">Link text</a> |
Example link
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Scrumpy, How do you know if it was the shirt or the wearer that needed washing??
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You really don't need too many layers - it's usually surprisingly warm in a ski resort.
For main layers I wear salopettes, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt and a coat, and that's kept me warm for 95% of my days on snow.
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FAQ
-It does 
