 Poster: A snowHead
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Let's face it, if nixmap's offer is illegal, he had no hold over his "employee". So they can, as they see fit, hold parties in his shed, hire it out as a B&B for profit, and in the end take all items from it and burn it down. He would have no recourse to persue them for demages. For whatever "contract" he drew up wouldn't be honored in any court! And since his potential "employee" are likely from outside of Switzerland, they would have been long gone by the time any kind of recourse comes.
Why does it matter? Because whoever work for him knows that. So, the "condition of employment" must be mutually acceptable. nixmap has no REAL power over his "employee" except to throw them out of his shed. In which case he'd be without a housekeeper. In other words, it's not as un-equal as Masque sees it. In the end, if a middle-aged ski bum wants to exchange housekeeping/cooking for free housing, I really don't see why not. I in fact know of quite a few housekeeper/cook (not chef standard) do so "at will" (albeit not at a ski resort). The "master" had to put up with whatever standard the housekeeper brings. Look at it realistically, nixmap had no way of even knowing, let alone preventing, his housekeeper hosting their friends/acquaintance in his absent in exchange for other favors, for example.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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abc, The ski-bum could end up with a Swiss criminal record which would have an effect on their future travel and employment status . . . and they'd not be able to ski in Switzerland again. Not an insignificant risk.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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abc, and they can also be sued by him or others for liability for their actions...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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What criminal record? For breaking an illegal contract?
That is, as long as they didn't actually burn down his shed. Even then, he would still have to prove it was done with intend, rather than "neglect", for it to be "criminal".
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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abc, If you get caught working illegally in Switzerland . . . just like pretty much anywhere else . . . it's a criminal offence.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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But that's kind of unlikely to happen.
If, there's a contract, then nixmap would also be criminally liable if he presents it. So he's not likely to make it available to the court.
More likely, there's no "contract". So his housekeeper(s) will be free to leave if situation doesn't suite them. So it's upon nixmap to accomondate them to certain degree.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Maybe your mistake is paying them
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But in general, if you pay other people to do the work of a housewife/mother, you end up paying quite a lot. Plenty of households have a cleaner AND a nanny, for example though these days only the impossibly rich would have a cook as well. |
Well, I guess my post and subsequent applications really prove that to be different. Although talking strictly numbers, I could rentout my apartment and with the income, an get a legion of childminders ,cooks and cleaners all performing their seperate tasks.
But from a personal point of view I dont think I would be better off, It would be a lot less personal with heaps more to organise.
Its my premise that, there are plenty of people out there who think that, getting to stay in a nice chalet for the whole season, which is mainly only in use on weekend, is a pretty good offer.
If that means helping out with some of the routine chores, involved in the smooth running of the chalet and taking some of the workload of their hosts seems pretty reasonable. Much to some peoples annoyance, Im not going to list a worksheet of tasks, and exactly how many hours this means as honestly I dont know, and besides its not a job or comercial proposition thats being put forward.
It could quite well be that I go through all this, and find out that my place gets trashed, and its a complete disaster. Equally an applicant could turn up to a complete hell hole and hate every minute of it. I just dont happen to believe case is a likely outcome.
Maybe thats naive and altruistic but, as Im here again, clearly I think the net result is beneficial. From the number of applicants I have recieved, (even some for 2011) I would seem that plenty others would agree... despite predictably valid attempts to corral me into one particular evil pigeon hole or another.
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nixmap, Doing something just because you can and/or haven't been caught yet is just a variation on a 'Nuremberg' defence and in itself justification for this OP to be never posted here again.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Masque wrote: |
| nixmap, Doing something just because you can and/or haven't been caught yet is just a variation on a 'Nuremberg' defence and in itself justification for this OP to be never posted here again. |
Even if he had posted what you imply here (which he didn't), that would most certainly NOT be anywhere even close to being "justification for this OP to be never posted here again.".
You really are going seriously OTT in your attacks on him.
He has not posted anything at all which is sufficiently bad to justify him being banned, while you have just thrown allegation after allegation at him, mostly stated as facts when you don;t actually know.
I'm glad you are not a moderator.
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alex_heney, he is inviting applicants to be complicit in an illegal working arrangement, do you dispute that? It is not an accidental faux pas, he lives and works in Switzerland so must be clearly aware of his obligations should he want to employ people to provide the professional services his offer states . . . they're not implied, they're stated. The tort expressed in his advert is clear.
That is not and should not be part of this forum's ethos, ethic or environment.
PS. Given my my tautological excesses, I'm also glad I'm not a moderator  Though it is time that they and the site admin add their thoughts.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Masque wrote: |
alex_heney, he is inviting applicants to be complicit in an illegal working arrangement, do you dispute that?
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I dispute that is known as a fact.
It is possible he is doing that, but by no means certain.
The fact he hasn't answered your questions which would firmly establish that one way or the other is certainly indicative, but it is not proof.
And TBH, I would be careful about stating that as a fact, since if he wanted to be nasty, it could lay you open to libel accusations.
| Quote: |
It is not an accidental faux pas, he lives and works in Switzerland so must be clearly aware of his obligations should he want to employ people to provide the professional services his offer states . . . they're not implied, they're stated. The tort expressed in his advert is clear.
That is not and should not be part of this forum's ethos, ethic or environment.
PS. Given my my tautological excesses, I'm also glad I'm not a moderator Though it is time that they and the site admin add their thoughts. |
I ma sure that most of the moderators will have read this thread (or significant parts of it). If thye thought it merited action, then that action would have been taken.
If it was as clearly illegal as you think, then that would probably be sufficient to have moderated the thread at least, although still probably not enough to ban the poster, unless he persisted after having the thread moderated.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It's funny watching Masque self implode though, he's trying hard to turn it back round, ignoring others calls to stand down, he feels the need to crusade for them anyway,a bit undignified but he wont care..
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| alex_heney wrote: |
..........I ma sure that most of the moderators will have read this thread (or significant parts of it). If thye thought it merited action, then that action would have been taken.
...... |
That the thread hasn't been taken down is quite an adverse reflection on them in my view.
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You know it makes sense.
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Maybe like many others they dont really see the great problem with the thread? maybe they see the (perceived) good side of it... surely after 2 years and what 20? pages they have had time to reflect and consider it as has the admin.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 10-08-09 10:28; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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alex_heney, So you don't think that the OP is an offer of 'benefit in kind' for services rendered?
nixmap's reticence to confirm the simple and certainly not prejudicial or detrimental to the advert or the applicant fact that he has the authorities in place to advertise for and employ a non-Swiss national in this manner for these services.
I think that the mods and site admin are content to let this run its course . . . since it is fait de complicite and it's far too late or in any way beneficial to delete the existing thread. It will be 'interesting' should it be attempted in the future.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Is anyone else thinking that Masque has become a self feeding troll? Or perhaps childish with his libellous insults.
Masque, you've lost! Give it up gracefully. We don't want to read such inane profanities on our favourite public forum.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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WayneC, 'profanity' pertains to profane. I can't see what is profane in Masque's posts throughout this thread.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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geeo, Implode? only in your wet dreams. I could quite easily keep calling nixmap a duplicitous dickwart but we're past that and into dissection of the post and its lawfull standing. You don't see a problem with the OP? That's only indicative of the sheltered life you've enjoyed. It may well be that nixmap could be a pleasant chap to share some beer time with . . . but that can certainly be said of many sociopaths. That only illustrates the euphamism that covers are designed to sell books.
Is nixmap a crook? That's 'not proven' at this time since this particular arrangement has not been tested in any court . . . however, would you be willing to be a guinea pig if it went titsup?
WayneC, so you think that nixmap's offer is legit? Troll? No . . . Opinionated asshole ? Yes . . . However, opinions are often shaped by experience and my profanities(sic) are hardly as inane as your incurious mind 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Masque wrote: |
alex_heney, So you don't think that the OP is an offer of 'benefit in kind' for services rendered?
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Where have I said anything which suiggests I might think that?
I think it probably is, but we don't have enough information to be able to say whether he has whatever he needs in place to make it legal or not.
| Quote: |
nixmap's reticence to confirm the simple and certainly not prejudicial or detrimental to the advert or the applicant fact that he has the authorities in place to advertise for and employ a non-Swiss national in this manner for these services.
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Care to re-write that in English?
| Quote: |
I think that the mods and site admin are content to let this run its course . . . since it is fait de complicite and it's far too late or in any way beneficial to delete the existing thread. It will be 'interesting' should it be attempted in the future. |
I think if they believed it anywhere near as clear cut as you seem to think, then they would have dealt with it well before now, and indeeed would have done so last year, when nothing was different.
And would not have allowed the thread this year at all.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Masque,
Lol in my wet dreams...you?... i have seen your pic, and as metrosexual as i am your a bit fat for me.... but you are seething, we can all tell, the fact so many think you are the jizzbucket of this thread and not Nixmap is sweet
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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achilles, absolutely, profanity (pr`fæn€t€) , pl -ties
1. the state or quality of being profane
2. vulgar or irreverent action, speech, etc
and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/profanities
your linked 5 and my Collins dictionary for profane gives vulgar, coarse, or blasphemous: profane language and Collins Thesaurus gives abusive, blasphemous, coarse, crude, filthy, foul, obscene, vulgar,
And as Vulgar is marked by lack of taste, culture, delicacy, manners, I think he's certainly vulgar.
But I'm not going to feed the troll anymore...
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In the same post :
| nixmap wrote: |
| I could rentout my apartment and with the income, get a legion of childminders, cooks and cleaners all performing their seperate tasks. |
| nixmap wrote: |
| ...besides its not a job or comercial proposition thats being put forward. |
So someone doing a legions worth childminding cooking and cleaning tasks isn't considered as working or doing a job then ?
Hmm.
Nix, you're rumbled. I hereby declare Masque the winner.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Gazzza wrote: |
In the same post :
| nixmap wrote: |
| I could rentout my apartment and with the income, get a legion of childminders, cooks and cleaners all performing their seperate tasks. |
| nixmap wrote: |
| ...besides its not a job or comercial proposition thats being put forward. |
So someone doing a legions worth childminding cooking and cleaning tasks isn't considered as working or doing a job then ?
Hmm.
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Where did he say anything about anybody "doing a legions worth " of anything?
He said that if he rented out his aparetment, then he could get that, not that he would want or need to get that.
But I would take issue with his suggestion that it is "not a job or comercial proposition thats being put forward". IT is a commercial proposition, at the very least, since he is offereing something in return for something else. It would also probably fall under the legal definition of a "job" too, although that is slightly less certain.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| Where did he say anything about anybody "doing a legions worth " of anything? |
He implied it, particularly in context of the rest of the thread.
Why would he state he could get that, if he didn't need or want it?
It's not like randomly stating he could travel to Moscow on a horse and cart, when he has no need or want to do so, nor 10 pages of thread around the subject matter. This thread is about his need for housework, and read in the context of the thread that is one of his options.
He has something that needs doing. As he stated, he "could" get a legion of said childminders, cooks and cleaners to achieve his goal. This logically follows that there is a legions worth of work to be done, otherwise why would getting a legion of staff be of any relevence, any more so than riding to Moscow on the horse & cart.
Or, he "could" post on snowheads and get someone do the legion worth of childminders, cooks and cleaners work for "free", which is the option he has chosen.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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unless he has a quite extraordinary apartment he certainly couldn't rent it out for the cost of employing legions of proper cooks, child minders etc, especially as unless he was providing them with accommodation they'd have to be paid a living wage.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Gazzza wrote: |
| alex_heney wrote: |
| Where did he say anything about anybody "doing a legions worth " of anything? |
He implied it, particularly in context of the rest of the thread.
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I don't think so.
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Why would he state he could get that, if he didn't need or want it?
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Because of the context, where it had been implied that he was only looking for this arrangement in order to save money.
He was responding that if he rented out the apartment, he could get enough to pay for far more than the services he is asking for. (i.e. far from saving money, this would not be as good for him financially).
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Right. It seems to me we all agree:
1. Nixmap is sociopath
2. Masque is a philanthropist who is posting here in order to provide a potential benefit to all snowheads.
Or is it the other way round...
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You know it makes sense.
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| James the Last wrote: |
Right. It seems to me we all agree:
1. Nixmap is sociopath |
For illustrative purposes in context he could be . . . but even I doubt that
| James the Last wrote: |
| 2. Masque is a philanthropist who is posting here in order to provide a potential benefit to all snowheads. |
Hardly
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ho Hum, Masque.
| Masque wrote: |
| It may well be that nixmap could be a pleasant chap to share some beer time with . . . but that can certainly be said of many sociopaths. |
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Poster: A snowHead
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Masque, Just forward this thread to the relevant authorities and let them decide!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Shenanigans!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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This whole thread needs pulling.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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paulio, indeed! Quite pleased to have been online for all that...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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bug had to go to bank and missed it all. Hope it was good.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Can anyone give me an update, lets use the names 'Musk' (in relation to a recent perfume thread started by... someone), 'Googlemaps', 'Global Villain' and 'Roy the 1st/2nd'.
Thank you in advance.
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No surprises there then. once 'that' post from Mr L appeared, it was only a matter of time. arv, It was only an old story regurgitated. Looks like it had a life expectancy of about 3 hours. 
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Axsman, Ahh, was hoping for some relative excitement.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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arv, Me too!
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poo
first day back at work - missed it all - two locked threads...
Anyone cached it? Google has crawled but not cached it...
And who is Mr L - Not Freddie P surely?
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FAQ
Keep up the good work.
