 Poster: A snowHead
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@zikomo,
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I don’t think I have to justify to you
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I wasn't asking for 'justification' just, purely out of interest, for information.
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all I did was ski down and try to meet the person at the next lift.
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Fair enough, good call
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. You can tell a nationality at a glance normally (at least I can most of the time),
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Hmm. I think I might refrain from commenting on that, as a British person of foreign heritage
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I don’t really get why you would think that was hard.
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Where did I say it was hard?
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to suggest we would arrest the individual on a path, blocking it, whilst interrogating them, was unpleasant.
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I said it was a mental image. You know, a bit like a bad dream. The fact that you took me literally possibly reflects more than a lack of humour on your part, in which case I'm sorry, I won't address you with any more light-hearted remarks, or indeed any remarks.
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It’s just a bit of fun which you seem to be missing….
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I didn't/don't have any views, one way or the other, as to whether it might be fun. I'm delighted if you enjoyed the exercise.
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Do you need any more information?
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No thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Hurtle, ok.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Pyramus wrote: |
OK I have version 2, utilising an overtaking model used for autonomous vehicles. 
Sorry the graphical representation needs some work.
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Laughed my head off over this … good work.
On the graphical representation I did wonder why the first skier appears to have three skis but only the normal number of legs !
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Being a snowboarder I tend not to ride with poles unless it’s a split kinda day.
But if some nobhead skier tried to stop me for a random chat about pole clicking I would spray him. And laugh.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| hang11 wrote: |
Being a snowboarder I tend not to ride with poles unless it’s a split kinda day.
But if some nobhead skier tried to stop me for a random chat about pole clicking I would spray him. And laugh. |
If some random knobhead tried to stop me for a chat about pole clicking I'd slap him in the face and tell him to fück right off
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<laughs>
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| You can tell a nationality at a glance normally (at least I can most of the time) |
I think identifying knobheads is way easier.
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A chat about pole clicking makes a knock on door from Jehovah’s Witness almost welcome in comparison!
And likely to produce a similarly strident FRO in response!
So
Who would your alternate “I’d hate to have a chat with but still not such a pain as a pole clicker “chat be?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Whitegoldsbrother, Bit harsh but understandable . . . .I'd click him twice around the groin and then talk to him afterwards (if he was still willing)
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It’s hard to know how to respond to some people without stopping to their level.
@phil_w, I actually agree with you completely. Knobheads are easier to spot. I probably should not have said “nationality”, but rather “tourist” as is not local. I spend a huge amount of time in Italy, and speak the language, so normally clock which is which. Not always though, and have sometimes met incomprehension when addressing someone in Italian. And likewise when addressing someone in English (less often).
@hang11, no, I don’t think you would. Because I have social skills so know who is approachable and who is not.
@snowornever, no you would not tell me to FRO. You are not that sort of person I am sure. And I am not the sort that you would do so too either. I am both nice and pleasant in my approach, and also obviously comfortable with confrontation.
@Whitegoldsbrother, usual troll comment.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@zikomo
Interested in your comment about social skills that enable you to know who is approachable and who isn’t
Is it via telepathy?
No that can be it because you would then know that I am that guy who would indeed tell you to FRO
I take your word that you are nice and approachable but others may not be so appreciative of being approached by random strangers with their own agenda
(Just like those door to door religious plonkers)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Must admit if you want to know the utility of pole clicking a possibly more useful approach would be to have two people passing strangers one clicking their poles and one not and then asking them if they felt either was useful or off-putting. As far as I'm aware clicking poles does not contravene any FIS rules .
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| snowornever wrote: |
@zikomo
Interested in your comment about social skills that enable you to know who is approachable and who isn’t
Is it via telepathy?
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err... no.
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| I speak fluent Italian. And all I did was ski down and [say] “do you mind if I ask you a question”? |
...although as it happens in all four cases the person asked spoke English. If someone responds "not at all" or similar, then I think we can say they are approachable. As @zikomo said, one person didn't like the survey, but I think most people reading this thread thought that he was the one with an attitude problem, not @zikomo.
If your response to "do you mind if I ask you a question?" is "FRO", then you might have an attitude problem too.
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You know it makes sense.
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The earlier discussion suggested that most people didn't feel terribly strongly either way about pole clicking and that pole clickers did not in any way suggest this gave them carte blanche to barge their way past. Generally some perfectly nice and considerate people felt that, when all was said and done (and all has certainly now been said and done.....) it wasn't a terribly big deal, one way or another.
It's the people who feel they have a right to barge past, or don't give the lower skier absolute right of way, who are a menace. Whether they click their poles before barging or not is really neither here nor there.
I have no objection to a "random stranger" asking me something and, on the whole, other people seem to feel the same. I was out for a walk on Monday and saw a man lurking on the path, ahead of me. As I drew level I asked him what he was watching and the answer was, a marsh harrier. He told me a bit about them, said he was getting chilly and was heading home, and we went on our way. He didn't seem tempted to smack me in the face for my temerity, thankfully.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| zikomo wrote: |
@hang11, no, I don’t think you would. Because I have social skills so know who is approachable and who is not.
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I would probably still spray you anyway
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Origen,
You're not a boarder like @hang11 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Update is no pole clickers or shouters at all today. I’m not sure what that means. It is a rare occurrence here, so maybe chance or also maybe people feeling more confident on the slopes?
On other points reading body language, how people group together, age and general demeanour are indeed signals to those who have social skills. I asked five people, four of whom were very happy to discuss. Including one who had a very different view of the world to mine. Maybe I was just lucky.
And yes, I rather feel that anyone who would respond to “can I ask you a question” with “FRO” has a problem. Actually many. Most who don’t want to answer a question will say “not really” and that would be the end of it.
Anyone who would hide behind a keyboard while saying that’s what they would do is almost definitely fooling themselves, and trying to project a harder image of themselves than exists in reality. I have never, and I mean never, met anyone with genuine backbone who boasts about how hard they are. And I have lived and worked in some of the tougher places in this world.
My take is in general no bad intent is meant by pole clickers. I don’t like it, but will be more relaxed about in future as a result of this little experiment. Live and let live is probably the best learning.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| zikomo wrote: |
| My take is in general no bad intent is meant by pole clickers. I don’t like it, but will be more relaxed about in future as a result of this little experiment. Live and let live is probably the best learning. |
Why don’t you like pole clicking?
Asking as a pole clicker whom also appreciate pole clicking from others who’re about to pass me.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@abc,
1. Primarily because it should be entirely unnecessary
2. Because I know for a fact that it startles and/or confuses and/or scares nervous and some lower level skiers. I have considerable personal experience of this when teaching. And also when my wife (who is a better skier than I) was getting back on skis after years off, with ACL issues and a brace.
3. It can easily be misinterpreted. Many posters here have pointed out how that is the case.
4. Because it encourages a view that faster skiers need to communicate their intentions when over-taking rather than using their skills to simply overtake in a safe manner. Allowing for the downhill skier to make any voluntary or involuntary motion.
I accept that many who pole click have very good intentions. And that some appreciate it. But just because you find it useful does not mean it does not create problems for others.
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| zikomo wrote: |
@abc,
1. Primarily because it should be entirely unnecessary
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It’s about as “entirely unnecessary” as a bell on a bicycle or a horn in a car!
By all means slow down and wait, or pass at a snails pace. Why would anyone need to alert others of their present from behind???
As for the rest of that list, all the “dislike” are just that, dislikes. I, like others, have plenty of such dislikes: people lower safety bar too soon, raising it far far too soon, smoking on the chair, or while queuing for lifts… the list goes on. But I recognize that whenever I’m in a public space, I can’t have it exactly the way I “like” it. For there maybe many others who “like” what I “dislike”. Just have to suck it up.
But thanks, I now know WHY you dislike pole clicking. Though I must say I like it.
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There are some anomalies in all this. Some people who are critical of people like me who ski with music say that it's important to be able to hear someone coming behind you BUT also say they dislike pole clicking which is designed to signal that there's somebody behind you. Personally I am nowhere near a good enough skier to look behind and then make the right evasive move, very rapidly, to avoid a collision. Just as likely to turn into the path of someone who was about to pass safely. So being able to hear what's behind is not important to me and I probably won't hear your pole click anyway. So it will neither help nor annoy me, nor freak me out. Ommmmmmm.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I appreciate it, I know if someone is coming behind me and wants to overtake, then don't go turning. I much rather it than someone buzzing me.
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| Origen wrote: |
| There are some anomalies in all this. Some people who are critical of people like me who ski with music say that it's important to be able to hear someone coming behind you BUT also say they dislike pole clicking which is designed to signal that there's somebody behind you. . . |
good point. I think they need to get out more
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Origen, I love sliding with music, so relaxing/uplifting/enjoyable. I don't even have it very loud, just in the background so I'd probably hear a pole click.
I can't believe this thread is still going! Maybe we should all start wearing labels..."PC"...or ..."Non PC". 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| abc wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
@abc,
1. Primarily because it should be entirely unnecessary
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It’s about as “entirely unnecessary” as a bell on a bicycle or a horn in a car!
By all means slow down and wait, or pass at a snails pace. Why would anyone need to alert others of their present from behind???
As for the rest of that list, all the “dislike” are just that, dislikes. I, like others, have plenty of such dislikes: people lower safety bar too soon, raising it far far too soon, smoking on the chair, or while queuing for lifts… the list goes on. But I recognize that whenever I’m in a public space, I can’t have it exactly the way I “like” it. For there maybe many others who “like” what I “dislike”. Just have to suck it up.
But thanks, I now know WHY you dislike pole clicking. Though I must say I like it. |
Have you had some vino or something stronger? That’s the most incomprehensible post I have seen in a long time. I have absolutely no idea if you agree or disagree with my premise and conclusions. Just plain weird tbh.
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| zikomo wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
@abc,
1. Primarily because it should be entirely unnecessary
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It’s about as “entirely unnecessary” as a bell on a bicycle or a horn in a car!
By all means slow down and wait, or pass at a snails pace. Why would anyone need to alert others of their present from behind???
As for the rest of that list, all the “dislike” are just that, dislikes. I, like others, have plenty of such dislikes: people lower safety bar too soon, raising it far far too soon, smoking on the chair, or while queuing for lifts… the list goes on. But I recognize that whenever I’m in a public space, I can’t have it exactly the way I “like” it. For there maybe many others who “like” what I “dislike”. Just have to suck it up.
But thanks, I now know WHY you dislike pole clicking. Though I must say I like it. |
Have you had some vino or something stronger? That’s the most incomprehensible post I have seen in a long time. I have absolutely no idea if you agree or disagree with my premise and conclusions. Just plain weird tbh. |
There’s nothing to agree or disagree. I asked you to explain “why” you dislike it. You did. I thank you for it.
(Yes, I’ve expanded on some of your points also)
The fact I like what you dislike doesn’t change anything, if that’s not clear.
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You know it makes sense.
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This is one of those threads which goes round in circles and never goes away. Please make it go away, there’s no winner here. Move on
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@jirac18, its the best thread I've ever started...but I'm bored with it now
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Poster: A snowHead
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I find engaging others in polite discussion unnecessary. The boarder who hit me because he was trying to zoom through the metre gap before the lift line ropes no doubt understood what a f'n cockend was as he untangled himself from the ropes by context.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@jirac18, @holidayloverxx, you do realize you have the freedom not to click on the thread, don’t you?
But it seems you’re more bored than this thread, or you shouldn’t have bothered
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Dave of the Marmottes, was that the 14 year old you were hitting with poles?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@SnoodyMcFlude, be fair I believe by the time Adi and @NorthernMonkey had finished telling the story the 16-18 year old was 7 max.
No this was some other muppet much like the guy who took Adi out a few days before.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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you do realize you have the freedom not to click on the thread, don’t you?
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That’s the most incomprehensible post I have seen in a long time.
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That's a bit rude! I found it comprehensible, and a good attempt (by someone not writing in their first language) to express what a lot of us feel - that this is a trivial "like or dislike" rather than something to get hot under the collar about.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Origen, sorry mum
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| abc wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
@abc,
1. Primarily because it should be entirely unnecessary
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It’s about as “entirely unnecessary” as a bell on a bicycle or a horn in a car! |
Now you are being a bit silly. A bell on a bicycle is a legal requirement in some places (e.g. Northern Ireland); a working horn on a car is a legal requirement in the UK (and I'm sure most jurisdictions) with an officially prescribed use* (e.g. the Highway Code): to let people know you are there. Using a bike bell to tell someone on foot (or cycling slowly) that you are approaching and they should expect you to overtake is the point of the bell. Using a car horn to tell someone driving that you are overtaking is very rarely right, and certainly not right to enable you to perform an otherwise dangerous manoeuvre.
Neither of these are comparable to skiing: the FIS Code of Conduct does not prescribe the use of pole clicking as a warning. You may think it should, but it doesn't. If it did, what would snowboarders do? Make loud tutting sounds?
Cars, cyclists and pedestrians should not weave across a path or road and car drivers must not move without being aware of who is around them. Skiers and snowboarders (and particularly slower skiers who are likely to be overtaken in this scenario) will weave across the piste and may do so involuntarily and unpredictably and that's entirely normal and acceptable.
Some snowHeads on this topic think being clicked at is helpful, some think the opposite. It may make a bad situation better, it may make it worse, or it may just annoy someone. If you have to click to make an overtaking manoeuvre, then you should wait but if you can do so without clicking then in my view, the clicking is more likely to be unwelcome than welcome and you shouldn't do it.
* I am not inviting stereotypical jokes about driving in Italy, btw.
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@tsgsh, The code of conduct may not prescribe pole clicking but it certainly doesn't proscribe it or making other noises.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The comparison with a bike bell is entirely apt and already been discussed on this thread. Car horn less so. Some people are annoyed when you ring your bell, others are annoyed when you don't ring your bell. Either way what matters is not whether you ring or click, but how considerately you pass or, if you can't pass immediately, how patiently you wait.
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| T Bar wrote: |
| @tsgsh, The code of conduct may not prescribe pole clicking but it certainly doesn't proscribe it or making other noises. |
No it doesn't but the question is fundamentally about whether it is courteous to do so given that the code of conduct requires that the overtaker "leaves enough space for the overtaken skier or snowboarder to make any voluntary or involuntary movement". Once that requirement is met, does pole clicking help?
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FAQ
