 Poster: A snowHead
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summer, cAn someone please take some photos of the poor conditions in this area please?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kiters, conditions look very likely to improve from Christmas Day onwards - there looks like there is the potential for rather a lot of snow.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Took a bus from Morzine to the new Prodains high speed cable car and skied Avoriaz yesterday. Snow seemed much better but the downside being that the slopes were at times like a bad day on the M25. It is unusually mild and it rained for most of yesterday evening in Morzine so as I write this conditions are definitely much better on the Avoriaz side.
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Ricklovesthepowder, 19 out of 47 runs open in Chatel should give you an indication.
Some of the open stuff is still fine and I'm just off to Pre La Joux this morning with our little one, and as I have not been to that area for a couple of days, it'll be interesting to see what it is like.
The problem has been the mild temps since the last snowfall. I can't remember when conditions were last suitable for the snow cannons to function - but there lies the problem, eg the beginners slopes mentioned by DJL above.
The good news is that by the end of the week - we should be looking at a much improved situ.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Chatel Snow, fingers crossed!
My housemate is out there (Morzine, so at the other end of the valley) and posted some photos on Facebook, he seems to be having a great time. To you folk heading over for Christmas - even if the snow isn't perfect, it will still beat a rainy, grey and windy Christmas at home...
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Just back from Pre La Joux and had a couple of hours up there whilst our 5 year was in ski school. Conditions were fine above Plaine Dranse and there had been a dusting of fresh snow too - so some parts of the pistes were really quite lovely for a time, though there was a lot of traffic building on the mountain as we finished. Below Plaine Dranse, the bottom of the Rochassons was very hard and icy after last nights rain had re-frozen.
Did not meet any stones or rocks today above Plaine Dranse and my impression is that the pistes are holding up remarkably well.
As DLJ mentioned last night - the beginners drags at the bottom of the Pierre Longue are shut (apart from the rope tow) and the gully has not been filled in yet - which is unusual - but shows the relative lack of snow cover at this time of year compared to recent Decembers.
All car parks were full by 11.30am at Pre La Joux as people driving in from everywhere and the comments from our son's classmates mums was that the traffic and full car parks was more like New Year week, than Christmas - all due to the lower resorts in the valley not being open etc
Summary - pistes fine in general at Pre la Joux . Getting busier - but Christmas snow may well transform the valley. Fingers crossed.
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Les Gets in trouble unless it snows. Access to the bowl is frankly dangerous.
Tulipe was fine apart from the top 20 metres apart from that it was sketchy.
I will be heading to Avoriaz tomorrow as the snow seems fine if not slightly busy.
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Is there any snow scheduled for LG? Hope so.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Wednesday/Thursday.
I hope!
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I'm not out there until 12th so plenty of time for the goodness to come 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Chatel Snow, thanks for the comprehensive reporting, we're out on Saturday and I'm not going to worry, I think the snow will come and if it doesn't I will make the most of what there is and just potter and enjoy some lunches and generally have a good holiday and hope for better in Feb 
Sounds as if the whole of the Abondance valley is driving up to PLJ and I guess the whole of the Vallee d'Aulps will be driving up to Ardent, which will indeed make for a very busy Lindarets/PLJ sector. Fingers crossed for big dumps by the end of the weekend.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I shall keep my eyes peeled for you and Ed hurtling past me around Avoriaz Chattonmill,!
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Our skiing family are off to Ardent in the morning - we have the baby - we skied first thing setting off from the Follietts lift and could not find much to do so a very long coffee at the Vaffieu - then down to LG which was completely rammed at the lift - us residents do not see it like that very often so a couple of quick runs on a drag lift and we caught the bus up to get the car, followed by a large glass of Rose the Chasse Montagne - then discovered it was still only just after 11 - then our own terrace was very tempting in the sun for the rest of the family for the afternoon. Visiting dog to the vet in the morning. Father Christmas late afternoon. All hopes here for snow on Christmas Day.
OH did a trip round from the Perrieres lift this afternoon, Rosta bowl, etc and was stream hopping. Agree with Chattonmill, that
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Access to the bowl is frankly dangerous.
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You know it makes sense.
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Pamski, snow and vet aside that actually sounds like a very nice day 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| sarah wrote: |
Chatel Snow,
Sounds as if the whole of the Abondance valley is driving up to PLJ and I guess the whole of the Vallee d'Aulps will be driving up to Ardent, which will indeed make for a very busy Lindarets/PLJ sector. |
It has certainly been very busy over the last few days in Chatel/Avoriaz and yesterday was busier than the weekend. Given the fact there is no off piste, snow cross and not all pistes are open, the issue is made worse. This coupled with the strong foehn does not paint a pretty picture. The volume of people is also detrimental to the condition of the snow on piste in these areas as everywhere is taking a hammering. Stating the obvious, but the higher you go the better and there are some very nice soft bump runs around.
This weeks forecast snow is much needed, so let's hope we get what is forecast.
Best skiing is first thing when everything is quieter and the pistes have had some fettling overnight - early skiing and long lunch, sounds like season end!
Bob
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
| I shall keep my eyes peeled for you and Ed hurtling past me around Avoriaz Chattonmill,! |
Watch out for the Yellow jacket! We are up there today.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Obviously, despite the conditions we are having a good time and yes it's better than being at home but since this thread is about weather and snow conditions can we take that as a given.
Personally, from a skiers perspective, these are the worst conditions I've ever encountered. Many of the lower pistes are showing grass or gravel which means skiers are cramming into useable areas. Lift queues are pretty bad and we seem to be skiing a combination of heavy slush or ice. I don't like to be the pessimist but conditions are way too mild for snow so I'm not convinced we'll get it. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong but a dramatic change in weather conditions is needed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Rain rain rain , way too mild
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joemalone, where are you skiing?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| joemalone wrote: |
Obviously, despite the conditions we are having a good time and yes it's better than being at home but since this thread is about weather and snow conditions can we take that as a given.
Personally, from a skiers perspective, these are the worst conditions I've ever encountered. Many of the lower pistes are showing grass or gravel which means skiers are cramming into useable areas. Lift queues are pretty bad and we seem to be skiing a combination of heavy slush or ice. I don't like to be the pessimist but conditions are way too mild for snow so I'm not convinced we'll get it. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong but a dramatic change in weather conditions is needed. |
When a large weather system moves in the temperature automatically goes down, i have heard reports of a snow line of 1000m, so stop being so pessimistic!
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Snow is on the way. Rain is expected to turn to snow during Christmas Day and it should turn to snow down towards 1000m by Thursday morning. 20 to 40cm looks like a reasonable range of snowfall possibilities for 1500m - possibly more towards the 50cm mark and I would not be surprised to see 20cm at 1200m here in Chatel and again there is a possibility of more than this. Our forecast yesterday evening has some useful links to local forecasts - amounts have changed since that forecast - but we will do another forecast overview this evening.
http://www.chatelweb.com/snow_forecast.php
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Woop Woop. Bring on the Schneeeeeeeeeeeee. Seems to be a big variance within the forecast amounts for various parts of the PdS - am i right in reading that there isn't a lot forecast for morzine, but seems to be loads elsewhere?
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coddlesangers, There is always a big variation in these snow forecast amounts as forecasting precipitation amounts is nigh on impossible. For the PDS - the meteo-chamonix forecasts are very useful - used in combination with the others on the link I provided above. The one thing I would not recommend using is the GFS ensembles.
Morzine should get a smiliar amount of precipitation to Chatel - how much snow it gets will depend somewhat on when the rain/snow limit falls to 1000m.
Fingers crossed that this snowfall is a game changer for the area.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Tue 24-12-13 13:05; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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coddlesangers, it is very difficult to forecast quantity of precipitation.
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thanks for the replies. I'm learning over the past few years to distrust snowforecast.com 
With some luck the entire area gets a massive dump and we'll be knee deep...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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coddlesangers, Snow-forecast.com can be useful - it is good at showing when snow is due and also its freezing level forecasts are good, but it has mixed results for amounts of snowfall.
The classic example was last week's snowfall as even just as the event was starting - it was woefully inaccurate - (1cm & 6cm forecast for 1200m and 1700m was what it was suggesting on Thursday morning for the whole event - when the resulting snowfall was more like 13cm and 30cm at these altitudes).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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coddlesangers, Chatel Snow, Our very own nozza on the 'Weather Outlook' thread is the best source of info there is - no need to bother with all those other sites really
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red 27,
So we shouldn't bother with the best sources of local information for the PDS?
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You know it makes sense.
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Chatel Snow, no
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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red 27, Why?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Why what 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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red 27, Why shouldn't we bother with the best sources of local information for the PDS?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Chatel Snow, snow-forecast just takes the GFS info and roughly sticks on some 'cm of snow' figures. nozza reviews info from all manner of different sources to get the consensus overview but without resorting to a 'populist' guess about exactly how many cms there will or won't be.
That said, I'm a great one for 'live and let live' so if you like snow-forecast by all means carry on looking at it - each to their own
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red 27, Don't think you have read my post - I don't rate snow-forecast.com for snow amounts - please read my post rather than suggest things which I have not said.
"Snow-forecast.com can be useful - it is good at showing when snow is due and also its freezing level forecasts are good, but it has mixed results for amounts of snowfall."
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks for the updates!
I'm heading here in Feb for my first time skiing in Europe and looking forward to it. Though the apparent lack of snow is not something I'm used to, in Canada/Colorado I'm usually moaning that it's too cold
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| red 27 wrote: |
Chatel Snow, snow-forecast just takes the GFS info and roughly sticks on some 'cm of snow' figures. nozza reviews info from all manner of different sources to get the consensus overview but without resorting to a 'populist' guess about exactly how many cms there will or won't be.
That said, I'm a great one for 'live and let live' so if you like snow-forecast by all means carry on looking at it - each to their own |
To add to my post above - here is a copy of last nights forecast overview from the www.chatelweb.com site - which uses a consensus overview of the best available local forecasts and global weather model data.
Chatel Snow Forecast Update 23/12/2013: 5.30pm
Here we go again with another rain to snow event almost upon us! At the moment, it looks like rain will turn to snow at some stage of Christmas Day with the chance of some heavy snow overnight into Boxing Day, falling to below resort level. At the moment, apart from amounts, the uncertainties lie in the timing of the rain turning to snow down at resort level and also whether a strong Fohn wind will delay the precipitation in this area. At the moment, the GFS, NAE and Euro4 raw data show the rain/snow not arriving really until Christmas Day afternoon, but this could change (earlier or later). The Euro4 and NAE charts don't go out far enough to cover the whole event, but will be useful this time tomorrow. Meteo France are suggesting between 30 and 40cm of snow for the upper slopes, but as little as 6cm for the lower slopes, mainly as it appears to keep the rain/snow limit at a higher altitude for longer into Wednesday evening, but this may change as we get closer to the event, potentially (and hopefully) for the better. Chamonix-Meteo.com suggested this morning the rain/snow level falling to 1000m on Wednesday night with moderate precipitation. They should give more detail tonight or tomorrow on potential amounts. Snow-forecast.com, on its midday update, suggest alot of rain on Wednesday afternoon at 1200m followed by 6cm of snow and 18cm of snow at 1700m for the whole event. The GFS raw data (12z) meanwhile suggests between 25 and 30cm of snow equivalent precipitation, making the snow-forecast.com figure appear to be lower than what the synoptics suggest again. Meteo Suisse suggest in excess of 35 to 40cm snow equivalent precipitation for Morgins, with a rain/snow limit of 1500m falling to 1000m.
So far, the data and forecasts suggest that this is going to be a significant snowfall event, with large quantities of snow possible, but not guaranteed. It is possible that we will see between 20cm and 30cm at Chatel resort level (1200m) from this, but there is obviously still a chance that the lower range of amounts mentioned above could prove to be right. More info tomorrow, (when it looks like being very windy on the mountain), and we will also post updates on twitter as forecasts are updated online during the evening and tomorrow morning. There is also the potential for another rain to snow event on Saturday, which again has the potential for producing in excess of 20cm of snow in the area. So, lots to be looking forward too! Links to the info above are below...
- Meteo France Snowfall
- Meteo France Prevision (has snow/rain limits)
- Chamonix-meteo.com
- Meteo Suisse text forecast
- Meteo Suisse for Morgins
- Snow-forecast.com for Chatel
- NAE, Euro 4, UKMO & GFS raw data charts
ps - links do not work on this post - but do on the site.
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| sarah wrote: |
| joemalone, where are you skiing? |
Morzine, Avoriaz and Les Gets. Apparently I'm being pessimistic for reporting the facts. We were skiing mud today and more than one person in our Chalet commented that it's the worst skiing conditions they've ever encountered. I watched various piste workers shovel snow onto large bare patches of earth throughout the day. I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist and these are the worst conditions I've ever encountered, almost freakish. One of our Chalet staff tells me that last week it was -7 degrees in Geneva and 15 degrees in Morzine. Yes we all know how weather conditions can change and I've been here 4 days and been promised snow on every day plus had weather forecasts of 40cm of snow before we left. It hasn't happened and I'd have happily wore a t-shirt for most of the day, it is that mild, way too mild for snow. We're promised it will snow tonight though....
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I signed up to the forum as I'm off to the PDS a couple of times over the course of the winter.
Im sorry to take issue with the previous post on my first post - but these are not 'freakish' conditions. This is the chance you took when you chose to visit a 1000m resort in the first week of its season. And a snowstorm has been promised for Christmas Day for about 10 days, after some initial rain that's looking like what you'll get. Alpine snow and weather has always been unpredictable in December, this year is more the rule than the exception - despite the snowy Christmases of the past few years. It looks like the season is taking a turn for the better from tomorrow on, so I hope you enjoy the change in fortune
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I do remember about 5 years ago taking a chair from the bottom of Nyon passing over a piste I had skied the year before but that year the horses were enjoying some early grazing in Feb! We should rejoice there is any snow at all! I am sure all of us know someone who's had a failed ski trip due to lack of snow! So ditto Nelbert 75. Maybe less so now with greater cannon coverage but it still has to be cold for them to run. So we'll done pisteurs for giving us something to slide on.
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I do remember about 5 years ago taking a chair from the bottom of Nyon passing over a piste I had skied the year before but that year the horses were enjoying some early grazing in Feb! We should rejoice there is any snow at all! I am sure all of us know someone who's had a failed ski trip due to lack of snow! So ditto Nelbert 75. Maybe less so now with greater cannon coverage but it still has to be cold for them to run.
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