 Poster: A snowHead
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@SCGB insider, you might consider his other classic...
'How to win friends and influence people'
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And "how to stop flogging a dead horse"
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@flangesax, @ansta1, - ditto!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@ansta1, ahh... but this one exists!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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David Goldsmith sends greetings to all his easily-influenced-and-won-over friends, and encourages them to 'stop worrying and start skiing'
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Fri 9-01-15 15:39; edited 1 time in total
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@SCGB insider, "physician, heal thyself"
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| Scrumpy wrote: |
@George Jones, There is only one person that I am aware of who wishes to dissolve the club and that individual is Mr David Goldsmith.
Mr David Goldsmith is not a member of the Club.
There is no "scenario" to be steered in any direction. |
Could be a carpetbagger group that you do not know about though. Snowheads could even start one.
DG is not the sort to look for such a payout. Others may think it is a profitable wheeze though.
When a head man, like Wee Frank, starts talking marketing bollox then I would not be unduly worried about making a fast buck - and I like the club and all it used to stand for...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@George Jones,
Whenever you refer to the ski club's chief exec, you have to do so in a a derogatory manner. Over a year ago you claimed that you attended the 2013 AGM as a member then almost the next day complained on this message board that nobody said anything. Why did you not say something yourself at the meeting if you were there, rather than complaining here, or even better post on the ski club message board under your real name? I doubt that you have referred to the chief exec in the same way there.
Of course you could be yet another sock puppet.
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Point of information:
George Jones is widely believed to be a "sock" of the previous snowheads Latchigo and/or Latchico. Latchogo, at least, was banned for racist and personal abusive comments, from snowheads (one of very few such bans I believe.)
It appears that DG and "George Jones" have something in common then.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thank you for that.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Chris Bish wrote: |
| It appears that DG and "George Jones" have something in common then. |
No they don't. They have nothing in common.
Correction: A correction has been requested - they are both members of the SCGB.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 9-01-15 21:53; edited 1 time in total
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Who cares about SCGB.....Bunch of toffs
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You know it makes sense.
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@Smokin Joe, rather a sweeping statement, based on what?
I and my family have been Ski Club members for several years and are certainly not 'toffs' - didn't/don't go to private schools etc . We just find the Ski Club to be a useful resource and have skied with Leaders several times- the people we have met have been a mix, as is normal in any organization.
I find such easy inverse snob comments as annoying as snobbish comments, both usually being based on ignorance!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| richjp wrote: |
@George Jones,
Whenever you refer to the ski club's chief exec, you have to do so in a a derogatory manner. Over a year ago you claimed that you attended the 2013 AGM as a member then almost the next day complained on this message board that nobody said anything. Why did you not say something yourself at the meeting if you were there, rather than complaining here, or even better post on the ski club message board under your real name? I doubt that you have referred to the chief exec in the same way there.
Of course you could be yet another sock puppet. |
I did make a number of points at that AGM but the responses were not very illuminating. Mr. G was outside the door when I arrived. One of the speakers mentioned DG's exclusion, but other than the statement that they had taken legal advice on it, I was none the wiser. I was unaware beforehand that he had been banned.
Having seen the evasiveness that followed Mr.Gs questions in previous AGMs it was quite clear that little was to be gained from trying to drill down into the numbers in the reports. Glib marketing catchphrases were the order of the day. It was self-congratulation for the most part.
As for the chief exec, it was the first time I had clapped eyes on him. He did not become "Wee Frank" instantly, but I am sure he has been called worse in his time.
Of course you are not that tall yourself, if I remember from when you had your conversation in the pub with Mr. G one AGM.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| George Jones wrote: |
| Mr. G was outside the door when I arrived. |
This is correct. David Goldsmith was expelled from the Ski Club of Great Britain on 30 September 2013. At the ensuing AGM of the Club (21 November 2013) he handed copies of the official expulsion letter (not confidential) to SCGB members entering the meeting. This letter requested that Mr Goldsmith "remove any defamatory or unfounded comments that may be damaging to the reputation of the Club from internet forums or other publications. Failure to comply with this request may result in Council deciding to take further legal action to best protect the interests of the Club."
Nothing was removed, either by DG or by the moderators of Winterhighland.info - the forum essentially relevant. There was no legal action by the SCGB. DG denies any libel of the SCGB.
| George Jones wrote: |
One of the speakers mentioned DG's exclusion, but other than the statement that they had taken legal advice on it, I was none the wiser. |
It is believed that any legal advice the SCGB took on this matter must have related to the 'articles of association' of Ski Club of Great Britain Limited (a commercial entity which did not exist when DG joined the Club). David Goldsmith's expulsion from the SCGB was illegal under the Rules of the Ski Club of Great Britain. These Rules stipulate two specific procedures of expulsion which were not followed. DG contests the expulsion, though the new contract of 6 January 2015 awarding him a SCGB membership essentially reverses this.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 10-01-15 16:31; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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News just in:
The chief executive of the Ski Club of Great Britain - Frank McCusker - will appear at the AGM of Snowsports Industries of Great Britain (SIGB) to provide a presentation of "recent research carried out with a large sample of UK snowsport consumers". This event on 28 January is tied to the 'Slide' snowsports trade fair (27-29 Jan, Telford).
More about SCGB-published statistical data shortly.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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DEADLINE MIDNIGHT: SCGB half-price membership offer closes today (Sunday 12 midnight). £31.50 for individual membership.
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?intStoryID=9304#.VLJfsclCjQp
If you want to be a player (owner, voter) in interesting stuff for the future of British skiing - very positive altruistic objectives for all - which could escalate from 6 May 2015 (112th anniversary of the SCGB) ... you'd need to be in it to win it.
There is an even cheaper option: 'Beginner' membership (£24) - apparently no particular definition of "beginner" except maybe 'beginner to SCGB' (this rate only works for one year). Doesn't include skiing with SCGB reps, but seems to afford all voting and ownership rights, and all other membership services.
https://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/join/default.aspx#.VLJhTclCjQo
[Other ski clubs are available]
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
If you want to be a player (owner, voter) in interesting stuff for the future of British skiing
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Not really seeing what relevance the Ski Club has to 'the future of Briish skiing'. It runs a very small tour operation, posts inaccurate snow condition reports, runs a rather sparsely populated forum, and has little or no involvement with competitive wintersports. It also entirely ignores snowboarding and anyone under the age of 103. I'd suggest that it's influence on, and indeed relevance to the huge majority of people involved in wintersports in the UK in any capacity at all is pretty much zero.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Lizzard, your brain or computer seems to have selectively quoted the first part of that sentence, and inexplicably ignored the second part ...
| SCGB insider wrote: |
| ... very positive altruistic objectives for all - which could escalate from 6 May 2015 ... |
It's lunchtime - do you want to be spoon-fed anything else?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Lizzard, finally a post I can agree with  Well, except the people under 103. They seem desperate to attract members under the age of 103, sadly it is a bit like watching the local crown green bowls club or bridge group trying to get 18-35s interested by organising a disco and attempting to use Facebook.
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| Mistress Panda wrote: |
| sadly it is a bit like watching the local crown green bowls club or bridge group trying to get 18-35s interested by organising a disco and attempting to use Facebook. |
No, it is about an inner circle of self-interested individuals on expenses-paid skiing jollies, jaunts and scams (financed by SCGB membership revenue or other revenue that should benefit all members) kidding everyone with marketing gambits and other fluff. In fact, the old crones have generally given way to newer 'executives' and 'professionals on the committee' who rep, or have repped, but the objective of 'privileges for the privileged' continues.
But this can all change!
It is all about re-allocation of resources, innit.
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| Quote: |
But this can all change!
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No doubt it can, as long as enough of the members share your point of view and can be bothered to turn up and do anything about it. Unfortunately for you, it appears that they don't (to the extent that the club found you so annoying that it booted you out) and/or can't.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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All of the leaders,or reps,or ambassadors, or whatever you want to call them that
I have skied with have been very good.
For me, that is the USP that justifies being in the SCGB.
Most of these people do not appear at the AGM.
I cannot really see it as a great money-making wheeze for most of them either.
They have to front up a couple of grand to attend and pass a course, before they get any chance of becoming a leader.
They have to commit to three weeks leading a resort that the club is represented in.
They have to ski with various abilities .
Free accommodation and travel does not seem unduly generous in those circumstances.
That said, there was much merit in Mr. Gs questioning of the cost and value of this service. Even though I do not share his ultimate goal of closing the club down.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sun 11-01-15 14:34; edited 1 time in total
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Quote: |
If you want to be a player (owner, voter) in interesting stuff for the future of British skiing
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Not really seeing what relevance the Ski Club has to 'the future of Briish skiing'. It runs a very small tour operation, posts inaccurate snow condition reports, runs a rather sparsely populated forum, and has little or no involvement with competitive wintersports. It also entirely ignores snowboarding and anyone under the age of 103. I'd suggest that it's influence on, and indeed relevance to the huge majority of people involved in wintersports in the UK in any capacity at all is pretty much zero. |
In fact it seems a bit like GroupOn on the snow - a "club" that offers members some discounts on stuff. Which some people find useful.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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SCGB runs a hugely successful niche tour operator in the ski sector.
It posts snow reports and is the first port of call for the UK media when they want quotes about a ski-related issue.
It does offer various discounts and is more-marketing minded than it used to be.
Sadly, the days when it was a club with the type of active participation David Goldsmith fondly remembers are in the past. Members are probably regarded as "consumers" these days.
Where it goes in the future I do not know. The CEO seemed to have greater faith in the strength of the club's Internet presence pulling in new members than me.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A recent SCGB director - Richard Bird - has posted this comment on the new 'ambassador' scheme this morning ...
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As a recently-retired Council member, it is gratifying to hear the Ambassador service is working out well. We spent a lot of time working on the concept!
The club also offers the new Catchup service as another way to meet up with members. Has anyone tried that and how is the feedback? |
Source: http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/membersonly/snowtalk/discussion.aspx/The-Ski-Club?discussionID=14851&page=7#.VLOVrslCjQo
As with all things SCGB, the acid test is how many SCGB members are enjoying the benefit of the service ... and what is it costing? This morning (and for much of the winter) there are SCGB ambassadors in 11 French resorts. Based on annual costs of over £200,000 for the entire SCGB repping service in recent years, the amount spent on travel/accommodation/expenses for these ambassadors will be over £100,000. Will more than 1000-1500 (out of a declared SCGB membership of c.29,000) use the service?
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You know it makes sense.
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SCGB ANNOUNCES LOSS OF FRENCH LAW CASE
A court in Albertville today ruled that a Ski Club of Great Britain rep had been fined €10,000, of which €5,000 is suspended, for leading skiers without recognised qualifications. The SCGB reports ...
| Quote: |
| The action was brought after Club leader Ken Piddlesden was stopped on the piste in Val d’Isère, France in April 2014 and questioned by the gendarmerie (military force charged with police duties) in relation to Art.L.212-1 of the French Code du Sport. Under this article it is a legal requirement to have the relevant and appropriate qualification(s) to instruct, lead or guide skiing (groups) if remuneration is received. As Ski Club Leaders are non-remunerated volunteers the club continues to maintain the action is misguided and inappropriate. |
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=9368#.VLVQtslCjQo
While SCGB reps in France currently adopt an 'ambassadorial' (non leadership) role, rather than their conventional 'leader' responsibilities, the court action may continue to an appeal. To recap ...
8 April 2014: SCGB rep Ken Piddlesden is arrested on a piste in Val d'Isere while leading skiers. The SCGB 'leader' service generally continues at other French resorts but the SCGB reps in Tignes decide to stop leading skiers.
http://www.planetski.eu/news/5983
21 May 2014: SCGB CEO Frank McCusker is quoted by 'Where to Ski and Snowboard' ...
http://www.wheretoskiandsnowboard.com/news/ski-club-leader-questioned-by-french-police/
1 July 2014: the SCGB announces the suspension of its 'leader' service for winter 2014-5, pending the result of the court hearing ... 'Where to Ski and Snowboard' reports...
| Quote: |
In a statement released yesterday, the Ski Club chief executive Frank McCusker said: “It is disappointing that the Club has had to withdraw the on-snow service in France but it will continue to ensure members can still meet and ski together in resort.”
Instead of the leading service, the Ski Club will appoint “Ambassadors” to meet members at designated points in resort, make introductions and outline possible routes and itineraries for the day. They will also help organise and meet with members for lunch and après-ski, provide snow updates and book mountain guides and instructors for the group if required. |
http://www.wheretoskiandsnowboard.com/news/ski-hosting-drama-continues/
1 August 2014: the SCGB updates its official position, with a statement ...
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The Ski Club is fully behind the Leader and has appointed a local solicitor who is well aware of the challenges involved, and is currently representing other UK tour operators in relation to the ski hosting ban. The Club will only ever operate its leading programme in the full knowledge that it is both safe and also fully compliant with (local) laws within any of the countries/jurisdictions of its programmes.
The Ski Club continues to support the Leader and the Leading services and will provide updates as the case develops. |
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=9178#.VLVJj8lCjQo
1 September/5 September 2014: the court case in Albertville is adjourned to 8 December 2014.
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=9178#.VLVKgslCjQo
5 September 2014: the SCGB comprehensively updates the official position of repping in France, vis-a-vis two other French legal cases concerning teaching and operating a British ski school (Simon Butler) and tour operator hosting (Le Ski) ... [Le Ski loses its case on 4 September 2014]
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=9237#.VLVLaclCjQo
[November 2014. UK ski tour operators, including Crystal and Inghams, suspend ski hosting in Italy, for legal reasons. The SCGB announces that it will continue its usual repping/leadership role in Italy. The Telegraph reports on 20.9.2014 ...
| Quote: |
Frank McCusker, chief executive of the Ski Club of Great Britain, said the club's brand of ski hosting, its Leader programme, which was cancelled in France last season after one of its leaders was stopped by police on the slopes of Val d'Isère, would still operate in Italy this season.
He added: “We're in the process of looking at the particular law it relates to.” |
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/snowandski/skiing-news/11241435/Ski-hosting-cancelled-in-Italy-as-prosecutions-loom.html ]
20 November 2014: SCGB chairman Rob Crowder reports to Club members at the SCGB AGM ...
| Quote: |
| the case has been rescheduled for 8th December 2014. We will not know the outcome of this until 6-8 weeks after the hearing, but we have been advised by our French Legal team to expect to lose the initial hearing and immediately lodge an appeal. The appeal will not be heard until at least 6 months after theinitial hearing and the result of the appeal some 6-8 weeks later. It will therefore be well after the end of the season before we have properly tested our case through the courts. |
Page 3: http://www.skiclub.co.uk/assets/files/documents/annualreport_2014_final.pdf
8 December 2014: prosecution and defence evidence concerning the SCGB rep Ken Piddlesden is presented in an Albertville court. The SCGB reports ...
| Quote: |
| "The outcome of this hearing will be delivered in 6-8 weeks. Until that time we will continue to offer our ambassador service in France and the leader service in other resorts worldwide, which is enjoyed by many thousands of our members." |
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=9341#.VLVPFclCjQo
17 December 2014: the SCGB heralds the new scaled back 'ambassador' service ... "Ambassadors - how they'll be really spoiling us" ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=9349#.VLVQAclCjQo
13 January 2014: the SCGB announces that its rep Ken Piddlesden has lost the case and has been fined "€10,000, of which €5,000 is suspended. ESF have been awarded €1 damages, and €350 of costs."
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=9368#.VLVQtslCjQo
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@SCGB insider,
Take away the leaders and you effectively kill the SCGB.
How does David Goldsmith view these developments?
For me it would remove the main benefit of being in the club. There is a very small thread along these lines in the SCGB forum itself.
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Poster: A snowHead
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George Jones, what David Goldsmith says or does about SCGB repping is of absolutely no consequence whatsoever.
What matters is what the men in (French) wigs get up to. Here's the SCGB's latest position ... 'French missionary, legal' ...
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| We have asked our lawyer to immediately lodge an appeal to the court in Chambery. He will also be lodging an official complaint with the European Commission on our behalf. The Ski Club Leader programme in other countries is not affected by this outcome. |
Source:
Court rules in favour of the ESF and against Ski Club of Great Britain
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=9368#.VLYWqslCjQp
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As a small aside, the reason that 1€ damages were awarded was most likely so that a legal precedent for zero damages isn't set. A future case where a significant amount of money has changed hands would then not be able to argue that precedent shows no damages awarded to the plaintiff therefore no damages should be awarded in their case (albeit different). A nominal damage amount is an easy way for this verdict to not impinge on future cases.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Indeed, Mister Sideways.
And the Ski Club of Great Britain will no doubt look after Mr Piddlesden's Euro.
What about the Club's 'toss of Euro' approach to funding this legal action ... not to mention the entire annual £200,000+ repadorial/ambassadorial repping service ... which benefits around 10% to 15% of its membership (but is paid for by every £63 member and family group)?
Have you noticed that every member/director of the SCGB Council is a serving rep of the Ski Club, or a past rep? Are the gravy train drivers and passengers intent on crashing the train, for the sake of the Club?
Mister Jones, do you really sincerely believe that the raison d'être (to borrow a Gallic phrase) of the Ski Club of Great Britain is its repping service? Have you studied, for a moment, the history of the Club - its founding goals, its formative decades, the services and objectives - met through publishing and communication (not repping) - which initially built the organisation?
SCGB reps no longer perform a significant recruitment function for the Club. They no longer serve a sensible proportion of the Club's members (in relation to the enormous cost). They do not test skiers weekly to award bronze, silver and gold medals (boosting local ski schools). Yes, many of them are fine upstanding members of the ski community ... but isn't the whole concept a bit passé?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Have you noticed that every member/director of the SCGB Council is a serving rep of the Ski Club, or a past rep?
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People with history of active involvement in a club heavily represented amongst its officers shocker! Scandalous, how could that possibly happen!! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Lizzard, you mean they're NOT sought out one-by-one after years of deep study of the sacred texts, scrolls, and scriptures of the SCGB library, a vision quest brought on by an overdose of fondue served in the ceremonial golden ski-boot of the current membership secretary, and confirmed by a final scrying of the bones of Alfie Lunn himself?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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James Cove, a former SCGB rep and council member/director has this report on ...
Ski Club leader found guilty
http://www.planetski.eu/news/6634
| Quote: |
The Club has said it will meet any fine against Mr Piddlesden and is paying all his legal fees ... [The SCGB] has also announced it is adding the Austrian resort of Mayrhofen to its programme for this winter.
French lawyers will also be studying the findings closely as it could also have significant implications for other sports clubs through France that use unprofessional volunteers and members to help out. |
Of course, capturing the joie de vivre of the French Alps in Mayrhofen could be complicated. Bring your own beret, onions, garlic, cheeses and queuing behaviour.
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I'd prefer non-professional volunteers acting professionally, rather than unprofessional ones.
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| SCGB insider wrote: |
Mister Jones, do you really sincerely believe that the raison d'être (to borrow a Gallic phrase) of the Ski Club of Great Britain is its repping service? Have you studied, for a moment, the history of the Club - its founding goals, its formative decades, the services and objectives - met through publishing and communication (not repping) - which initially built the organisation?
SCGB reps no longer perform a significant recruitment function for the Club. They no longer serve a sensible proportion of the Club's members (in relation to the enormous cost). They do not test skiers weekly to award bronze, silver and gold medals (boosting local ski schools). Yes, many of them are fine upstanding members of the ski community ... but isn't the whole concept a bit passé?
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If you look back you will see I refer to the repping service as a USP rather than a raison d'être.
I am glad you acknowledge that many of the reps are fine upstanding members of the ski community.
I accept that they do not test or recruit like they used to. The concept may be passé but things have moved on from the days you knew, when you could pop into Eaton Square for a drink and many members went up to Scotland together for the weekend.
I suspect in time the ski club may well become just Fresh Tracks Ltd.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| George Jones wrote: |
I suspect in time the ski club may well become just Fresh Tracks Ltd. |
You believe that members of the SCGB have lost control of their Club to the extent that this could conceivably be an outcome?
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I'd prefer a name change.
Rather than 'The Ski Club of Great Britain' they could re-brand as 'A ski club in Great Britain'.
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FAQ
