 Poster: A snowHead
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| dont give up hope things may change in your favour! |
AthersT Can you perhaps please (and pretty please!) give us all some hope by explaining the (very small) squiggles that your post alludes to??
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@mountainaddict,
First off anything past 7 days is more a possible trend/outcome NOT a forecast as it is simply too far out.
Ok top set of ensembles (lines) is temp at approx 1500m asl, Middle is temp at approx 5500m asl and bottom is the potential precipitation. As a rule temperature drops by 1 degree celsius per 100m you climb.
So from this you can see above average temps until roughly 24/12 when temps start to fall slightly and on 27/12 a decent size spike of precipitation is predicted. (just a guide) At this point as many of the ensembles don't back this is up its more of an outlier but if this is repeated over the next few days then more confidence can be gleaned.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Millom wrote: |
| @skinutter, please think about what you write. If you ask the tourist office/lift company about how many lifts, ski buses, how many runs (ignoring the whole over estimation thing which is still a problem) you'll be given useful factual info. However if you ask them what's the snow like at the moment you'll likely get excellent whether it is good or poor. So some questions are very sensible and worthwhile whilst others aren't. |
But that's why the snow reports here are much more useful than ski resort spin. Once 'enough' lifts are open then the value is getting opinions on how the snow is skiing, how people are interpreting the conditions as they find it. In somewhere like less arcs or 3v there's plenty of lifts open. Does it matter whether it's 30 or 35
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Does it matter whether it's 30 or 35
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Yes, when you're planning your day's skiing. But surely all resort websites have accurate information on which runs and lifts are open? I've posted that info from the Les Saisies website (43 pistes opening on Saturday; the domain doesn't open till Christmas week).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| ... surely all resort websites have accurate information on which runs and lifts are open? I've posted that info from the Les Saisies website (43 pistes opening on Saturday; the domain doesn't open till Christmas week). |
I think websites (and indicator boards in resort) are accurate about what lifts and runs are open, but they don't say anything about how they are skiing (which is arguably more important when conditions are marginal). Nor do they show whether pistes are being skied when technically they are closed. For example, the following pistes are technically closed in Les arcs this week: Ours, Combes, Genepy, Tuffes, Cretes, l'Homme, and Refuge. Yet all of these pistes, and much of the terrain either side of them, has been extensively skied this week, is now completely tracked out and beginning to form moguls. Also, websites tell you little about how busy it is, and whether some parts of the ski area are quiet compared to other parts.
Googling websites and webcams might be useful but it's only a part of the picture, and IMO the least informative part of the picture.
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@bertie bassett, Thanks for the post. A sensible question deserves an attempt at a sensible answer. In my view there are a number of factors to consider.
Person A (good skier, in resort all season, has a season pass)
1. they don't have a particular interest in conditions on a day to day basis only the bigger picture
2. every ski day is a free ski day so everything rosy
3. skiing for just a couple of hours is fine
4. skiing when slopes are very quite in the pre-season period (this year good snow in Nov)
Person B (different levels of ability, in resort for a week+-, doesn't have season pass)
1. holiday costs money and hopes for good conditions, maybe no second chance
2. some types of snow (e.g. hardpack/ice) potentially more difficult for less experienced
3. many would want to ski quite a lot so conditions/crowds matter
Therefore I believe the report from Person A on conditions would be potentially very different from Person B.
Over Christmas and more so New Year more people means greater snow deterioration and if less slopes open then more crowds/danger (even than normal) at these busy times.
And referring to points I've made before people DO have vested interested whether that be lift owners, accommodation owners, off-piste instructors, as well as in a million things not related to skiing. I believe it naïve (or optimistic if you prefer) to believe that people don't abuse situations all the time, including on these forums.
Back to conditions. I don't think anyone could argue that conditions at the moment in almost all resorts in Europe aren't great (some average, some terrible). However with other weather situations opinions can vary similarly to the Person A/Person B argument above based on a number of factors. I for example would love a snowy day, some but not all lifts open is fine, and some non-perfect visibility is fine. Someone else might probably prefer sunshine all the time. Both would want there to have been a good amount of snow before though!
So to this end I believe it is best to give accurate and realistic information about conditions NOT necessarily (just) your opinion of how those conditions are for YOU as this is just not constant and doing just the latter results in misleading information whether intentional or otherwise.
So I'd take everything with a pinch of salt and use a mixture of online opinions, hopefully some video footage, some webcam shots, and information regarding precips/temps (past and expected).
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Nor do they show whether pistes are being skied when technically they are closed
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There's obviously a lot of that going on. I wonder if all those people have checked whether their insurance covers them (most exclude "skiing against local advice").
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Millom, finally, a reasonable post! With regard to your point about some people having an interest in bigging up conditions, sure that can happen. But if you stick around here with an open mind you'll son get a feel for what info you can take at face value and what you need to take with a pinch of salt. Even those without a direct financial interest can paint a rosy picture because (a) that's what they want to believe, and (b) they don't want to be seen as having made a bad decision.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 16-12-15 15:39; edited 1 time in total
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| pam w wrote: |
| I wonder if all those people have checked whether their insurance covers them (most exclude "skiing against local advice"). |
More than likely not, although you're only skiing against local advice if you're on a piste which is closed rather than just to the side of it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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or (c) their general attitude to life, including Christmas snow conditions, is that their glass is half full. There's a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in (Leonard Cohen).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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There's a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in
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You can add up the parts; you won't have the sum....
Closing your eyes to what is around you - whether to "big up" conditions or to whinge about them - isn't helpful when communicating facts to others. You can say "the snow was lovely but unfortunately I was feeling ill so didn't enjoy my week" or "the snow was crap but I had a lovely Christmas".
There are some people who post misleading information because they fail to differentiate between the objective conditions (not under their control) and their own reaction to them (which is).
There have been some very helpful reports recently from people who have been skiing - e.g. noting that conditions aren't bad but cover is thin and hard and won't cope with a lot of traffic - or that some runs have good snow whereas others are very poor.
There is a tendency for some people to come down like a ton of bricks on anyone suggesting that time spent on skis, on snow, can be less than orgasmically, mind-blowingly, awesome. I'd say that that tendency is at least as strong as the tendency of some people to "big up" conditions in their own area. Perhaps because, as @rob@rar suggests, they don't want to confess to having made a poor judgement when booking their holiday or to having ignored advice.
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Putting a number of the percentage of lifts and pistes open in a given area is perhaps the most objective way of giving a true impression of conditions and of how crowded the open areas are likely to become. That percentage number is pretty low in many places at present and could well be lower at New Year, one of the busiest weeks of the year. If that's the case it'll be the worst New Year skiing, for very many resorts in Europe, for a good few years.
That doesn't mean people can't have a great holiday, but that's quite a different matter.
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You know it makes sense.
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@rob@rar, I've been around these forums for many years. I do have an idea of what drives certain people on here. I come in and out due to some frustrations about how the forum is used by some people. You might not see this as a loss.
I would have grave concerns over how you have talked a number of times about slopes/areas being skiable but maybe not open (well you actually said some were open that were not). This blase attitude is something I'm surprised your supporters on here find reasonable. In some cases this may be harmless but in many cases and if we concentrate on the blacks around Les Arcs bowl for a minute then this talk could potentially be very dangerous. This area would have a lot of rocks and other hazards and considering the limited snow could be fatal even for the experienced.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Millom, people perceive risks in different ways, based on their experience and attitude. One persons death trap is another persons walk in the park.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Millom, nice one, it's about time someone got a grip on all these people coming on snowheads thinking they can say whatever they want, especially true for idiots who aren't as clever as us, which is all of them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Feast, but I don't think you're looking at the big picture. People ski slopes that are shut quite often and this isn't necessarily just the super off-piste skier but regular adventurous intermediates or the like. They may come on here and see something that says everyone is skiing these areas it'll be fine. Is that not as bad as suggesting people follow another persons tracks in the off-piste (and you should know how that can end up). 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Millom, noting that some areas/pistes being skied are not officially open is not the same as advocating their use. Personally I think skiing on closed pistes is knuckle-headed (though I have been taken on closed pistes by instructors more than once and was OK with that).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Admin call the HSE! We have a breach!!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Generally when runs are closed it's for a reason and apart from anything else your insurance won't cover you if you have any form of mishap
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@flangesax, oddly enough, the HSE don't have a hotline phone number any more..
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Was it above the recommended temperature?
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Um... It's snowing above 1500m in Zillertal at the moment.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| SaraJ wrote: |
| Um... It's snowing above 1500m in Zillertal at the moment. |
Astonishing. An 'on-topic' post! Bravo!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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the email received by many this morning, "Big Snows Arrive
The Alps have been deluged by snow, giving the season a hugely-better start than last year. France in particular has had huge dumps. We’ll be updating weekly throughout the winter so keep logging on."
...proves that @Millom, has a point about vested interests bigging up snow conditions. These kind of emails come from ski websites and big holiday companies all the time and I doubt anyone wise or stupid enough to hang around here believes them. There are also many other biases amongst Snowheads - those who love/hate France/USA/snowboarders/the-one-eyed-people-in-the-next-valley etc.
However to suggest that property owners on here positively exaggerate conditions in the slight hope that a Snowhead will book for Xmas, and to stand by this accusation, is bonkers. The rate of Snowhead booking per post is less than one in 300, in my case.
And lets not get started on, "I skied a dangerous, closed, black run, ignoring the signs, passing underneath the rope, putting myself, my friends in danger and potentially leaving my children without a father because @rob@rar thought it was open on Snowheads."
signed
Snoozeboy
apartment owner without a booking for Christmas
- for good reason, going there with the family, snow or no-snow
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have seen it suggested that because runs are closed it's because of poor snow conditions. Well, it could be, but it's also my experiance that early season piste openings depend upon a) The number of skiers around to warrant all runs being open. b) Preparing / consolidating the base for Christmas/New Year weeks. c) getting around to it!
Similar behavour can be seen in the UK snowdomes with their lifts. With limited number of slope users, one lift only. More arrive, another lift opens, some users leave and a lift closes...
A tale of expensive pre-season woe due to too much snow, very low temps and high winds...
I went to Tignes arriving Nov 20. ( Pre-season with only glacier region open) Hmmn, High Winds on the glacier. So, Fri CLOSED, Sat CLOSED, Sun CLOSED, Mon opens at 11 am Last up at 3pm. Tues CLOSED, Weds opens at 10:30 am Last up at 3pm but Glacier Cable car CLOSED, Thurs in queue for 8:30, first run happens at 10:20 (Cable car exit -sheer wait of scrum). Fri spent 80% of day in 15 wide queue at bottom of Rosolin on 'Race Carve' course and it was 'Race Day' requiring the course to be 'slipped' (nearly all day) to compact the new snow and make the course 'safe' - a very, very unsatisfactory day on many levels and about the worst skiing week i've ever had in 40 years!
Stayed on another day, Tignes official opening. Bumped into Graham (at lunch - surprise!) and had a truly wonderfull day skiing in stunning, no wind, bright sunny conditions - did more skiing that one day than all the rest of the week! At the mo i haven't anything else planned - that week cost alot and for almost nought in return - it happens and i will have to get over it- I did leave happy though! - Still, i'll be back again i'm sure. Quite a few on the course had another 2 or 3 or more weeks away already booked - more money than i. 
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 16-12-15 19:32; edited 2 times in total
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These kind of emails come from ski websites and big holiday companies all the time and I doubt anyone wise or stupid enough to hang around here believes them.
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Unfortunately the same applies for the negative press.
The papers like to report such a bleak outlook that one year it did affect my business.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@stewart woodward, Geezzzzz!
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Poster: A snowHead
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However to suggest that property owners on here positively exaggerate conditions in the slight hope that a Snowhead will book for Xmas, and to stand by this accusation, is bonkers.
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...as well as libellous (since it amounts an unjustified public accusation of fraudulent misrepresentation).
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but it's also my experiance that early season piste openings depend upon a) The number of skiers around to warrant all runs being open.
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This of course also applies late in the season, when whole areas of a resort may be closed, in the interests of economy, as the number of skiers diminish.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Skiing Early Season Xmas/New Years
Presumably most folks go to Ski Areas to Ski/Snowbord why take the risk of booking early season.
10 reasons not to..
1.High risk of Poor Snow.
2.Very Little Off Piste or to Dangerous to try.
3.Busiest Time of the season.
4.Over Crowded often dangerous pistes
5.Unbearable Lift Lines compared to off Peak.
6.Much Reduced Ski time
7.Restaurants Full (Reservations only)
8.Poor Service (New Staff/Skibums still learning the job)
9.Ski Towns with no snow are very expensive places to hangout & waste time.
10. Expensive (Flights, Hotels.
11. To many kids ..........
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Millom wrote: |
| Is that not as bad as suggesting people follow another persons tracks in the off-piste (and you should know how that can end up). |
No. Most of the holistic traps present when you're standing at the top of a run thinking 'will I or won't I?' aren't present on the internet.
I guess the only place you'll get the bear-bones-unadulterated-facts on snow conditions is the avalanche reports. They're far less entertaining than reading this thread though!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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well yes, but many of us enjoy skiing as a family, and with fines becoming the norm for unauthorised absences in term time we dont have much choice but to choose peak season. Yes, good snow at Xmas is never guaranteed but even the meagre offerings we have at present give some seasonal surroundings for a family holiday - far better than the dire, mild, damp British gloom. I'm not sure, either, that Xmas itself is typically as busy as New Year or Feb half term
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Millom, I am taking a break from the Heathrow traffic controllers Christmas party, and we are in a strip joint called Venus, and yet you sem to be a bigger wanke-r than all my co workers.
Glad I don't have an early flight, and all the ""senior"" pilots have joined us, hope they are to pissed to drive in the morning, or it will be mayhem.
That last took 8 hoes to type the m in mayhem ,,to near the delete.
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@Millom, just trying to understand the nature of your grave concern. Is it because people are skiing off-piste and closed runs and you are worried for their welfare, or is it because I have reported that people are skiing off-piste and closed runs?
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@stanton, See above. Many people have already explained that Christmas/New Year is the best time to go skiing, despite the snow/weather gamble involved, because of (a) work closing down for the holiday period; (b) having school-age children, who can't legally be taken out of school outside school holidays; (c) extortionate flight prices at half term; (d) the British weather; (e) the intolerable annual Christmas merry-go-round - or a combination of all or some of those factors. (And most years the gamble will pay off).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Posted on both threads!
I called the agent today at igluski who's actually been very useful (he's based in Morzine btw) and he told me not too worry. He didn't dress things up, indeed said the chances are the trees and surrounding would be green on the basis of no snow forecast, however he did ay that the resort is one of the best available (club med) and indeed that every day the Ski instructors will take us skiing, a cable car away in Sestriere, where the current cover on the pistes is good.
He could have sold me on a transfer of resort/area but he believes (and i believe him) that we may as well be there as anywhere, and with excellent all inclusive food!!
It will be a shame if its not all snowy and christmassy however, it's the only time i could get my work and the kids holiday to align for a holiday skiing (Feb half term is not option, daughters birthday and she has plans here) so had to take the chance...
if like the agent says, we get to ski each day, enjoy a lovely resort and be away as a family for new year, objective achieved!!!
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| Skiing Early Season Xmas/New Years.....Presumably most folks go to Ski Areas to Ski/Snowbord why take the risk of booking early season.....10 reasons not to.... |
While some of those may apply for Xmas and New Year, they don't necessarily apply everywhere. I've skied areas in France (Maurienne) and Italy (Aosta and also Milky Way) in New Year weeks and found them not too bad at all.
And, in my experience of 20+ early season trips, that's certainly not usually the case at that time of year - eg Tignes 2 weeks ago had deserted slopes.
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FAQ
