 Poster: A snowHead
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I got the same impression when I've spoken to their reps "Oh, so you're a snowboarder. Oh dear, nevermind."
I joined Snowboard club UK in the end, mainly for their discounts.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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News just received from an impeccable and beautiful source ... a press release email ...
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Subject: Expedient wins Ski Club Account
The Ski Club of Great Britain has appointed Expedient PR to manage its Public Relations for the Winter Season 2014/2015.
With immediate effect the account will be managed by Fiona Jane Best, who recently joined the collective of snowsports professionals at Expedient.
Fiona, formerly Head of Marketing at the Ski Club of Great Britain and Sponsorship Manager at the Royal Yachting Association, is returning to the world of Snowsports after taking time out to raise her family.
All Ski Club of Great Britain press enquiries should be directed to Fiona Jane Best, mailto:[deleted] Twitter:@fionajanebest or Tel:[deleted]
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Fiona Jane Best [née Sweetman] on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/pub/fiona-best/15/460/264
Fiona Jane Best on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FionaJaneBest
Interestingly, the position of PR for the SCGB has been advertised - and re-advertised, as a prospective staff appointment - by the Ski Club in the past year ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=9165#.VAxLNKOCYig
... and the Club doesn't seem to have quite caught up with events as reported above ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/presscentre/default.aspx#.VAxLdKOCYig
| Quote: |
Ski Club Press Centre
If you're looking for snowsports information, quotes, images or statistics you have come to the right place. The Ski Club is the UK's leading supplier of snowsports information to the media.
The Ski Club’s PR is Vicky Norman. She can be contacted at vicky@heavenpublicity.co.uk or +44 (0)20 8410 2000 / +44 (0)7740 642262. |
All will become clear in the near future, no doubt.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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navel-gazing
noun
noun: navel-gazing
self-indulgent or excessive contemplation of oneself or a single issue, at the expense of a wider view.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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- and none of us wish to see Mr G's navel 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
| self-indulgent or excessive contemplation of oneself or a single issue, at the expense of a wider view. |
Sounds like a perfect description of the SCGB to me.
If you want to contemplate skiing at its global scale, across all its issues and assets ... you might wish to browse WTF Ski Club ... daily links to 5-7 fresh stories and threads (although about 10 today), videos, snow reports, news items and inventions ... and loads of discussion ... a club founded by Alan 'Bubbles' Mackenzie, head-quartered at the Doo Below, Aviemore ... with a constitutional ban on 'navel gazing' and tunnel vision! https://www.facebook.com/groups/325182624251298/
In passing, it's as well to recognise that British skiing was most likely founded in the Scottish Highlands, not within the constellation of Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton, Stansted ... and Wimbledon.
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SKI CLUB OF GREAT BRITAIN 2014 ANNUAL REPORT [unofficial]
Item 3: Chief Executive Report [not] - Part Four
UK Skier Numbers
On 16 September 2013 at a press conference, the CEO of the SCGB, Frank McCusker, revealed a markedly different 'UK skier numbers' figure to that in the other annual industry report, by Crystal. As reported by Skipedia on the same day ... http://www.skipedia.co.uk/2013/09/ski-club-of-great-britain-2013-report-launch/ ...
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| The Ski Club believes the overall size of the snowsports market is 50% greater than the 900,000 proposed by Crystal Ski in their own report. |
For 2014 ... as reported elsewhere on snowHeads, Crystal has calculated that the 'total ski market size' for 2013-4 was 867,700.
Source: http://mag.digitalpc.co.uk/fvx/crystal/sir2014/
Apparently, the SCGB will publish its latest market size figure for 2013-4 on 15 September. Will there be a 50% disparity this year, or is the SCGB actually measuring something different? (which might explain the difference last year).
Perhaps that aspect of things will become clear in 5 days time.
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SKI CLUB OF GREAT BRITAIN 2014 ANNUAL REPORT [unofficial]
Item 4: Social Media
How is the SCGB's social media - chat forum, Facebook, etc. - doing? It's around 20 years since social media was invented, and around 10 years since the launch of Facebook. Social media is a massive part of many people's lives, and a major element in skiing - for discussion, advice, information and entertainment in our sport.
The Ski Club of Great Britain's involvement in social media began in 2002 (i.e. approx. 12 years ago) when it launched a 'chat forum' on its own website. This featured simple-to-use software, which was attractive to members and non-members, and it was open to the general public. The forum proved hugely popular, with hundreds of participants and (at its peak) hundreds of postings daily. This was a major driver of the SCGB's website traffic at the time.
'MO Day', February 2004
All that came to an abrupt end in February 2004, with no advance warning, when the whole forum was shut down to non-members of the SCGB – the so-called ‘MO Day’ [Members only Day]. With no prior notice, thousands of skiers had no access to a place where they’d made friendships, learned about the Ski Club, and formed a body of people who might take the Club forward in the 21st century. The SCGB's website traffic soon slumped. One day after 'MO Day' the snowHeads forum sprung to life and it has since dominated online discussion of skiing in the UK. As of today, snowHeads has attracted over 41,000 membership registrations (including multiple identities) and over 2.5 million postings. Its traffic significantly exceeds that of the SCGB at its busiest, with hundreds of postings per day and thousands of viewings.
'NM Day', December 2012
Not all has remained unchanged over the past decade. It took 9 years, and a change of CEO at the SCGB, for the SCGB’s policy to reform. In December 2012 – 5 months after Frank McCusker started work at the Club – the SCGB ‘chat forum’ reopened to non-members. Let's call it 'NM Day'. There was a little flurry of activity and excitement at the 'resumption of business'. So how is the SCGB’s social media performing - nearly two years later - in September 2014?
c. 30,000 members. How many are 'chatting'?
The Club states that it has around 30,000 members. On 8 September these members (and non-members) made 4 postings on the SCGB forum. On 9 September there were 2 postings. Today 10 September there have been 4 postings. To all intents and purposes the SCGB chat forum is dead, vis-a-vis the size (and probable needs/desires) of the membership. Perhaps all this is down to two factors: (1) the inaccessibility and invisibility of the ‘chat forum’, barely linked from words in small type at the base of the skiclub.co.uk homepage. (2) the substantial ‘Terms of Use’ of the forum, which go well beyond normal freedoms of expression:
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Chat forum terms & conditions
• Users must not antagonise other users of this service or post any information that could be considered defamatory, obscene, abusive, vulgar, hateful, fraudulent, harassing or unlawful. You may be held liable for the content you post.
• Users must not use the forums to make detailed complaints against any individual or organisation.
• Users must not post or transmit any material that you do not have a right to transmit under law (such as copyright, trade secret or securities) or under contractual relationships (as in non-disclosure agreements).
• Users must not post, transmit or link to sexually explicit material.
• Users must not impersonate any person or entity, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with anyone or entity.
• Users must not post or transmit statements that are intentionally false or misleading.
• Users must not post or transmit any file that contains viruses, corrupted files, or any other contaminating or destructive features that may damage someone else's computer.
• Users must not post any material that could be regarded as damaging to the Ski Club. If you have any complaint or criticism of the Ski Club, you should address it to the Ski Club itself (you can send an email to skiers@skiclub.co.uk).
• We offer users the facility to report any message or discussion which you feel may breach the rules, and to ask us to take any appropriate or necessary action, including removing the relevant message or discussion - however, users must not abuse this facility, it is intended to be used in the case of a serious breach, not a petty disagreement. |
So, what is the general picture here? Does the SCGB have any genuine interest in social media, or is an organisation which prefers not to level with its membership and broader UK ski community? Does it communicate as an equal, or an ‘authority’?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
Apparently, the SCGB will publish its latest market size figure for 2013-4 on 15 September. Will there be a 50% disparity this year, or is the SCGB actually measuring something different? (which might explain the difference last year).
Perhaps that aspect of things will become clear in 5 days time. |
Well, that was the expectation. It does appear that a press conference took place at SCGB HQ 'The White House' 8 hours ago ... this link to the Skipedia Facebook page ...
https://www.facebook.com/skipedia/photos/a.178908528825764.39349.170673976315886/717095605007051/?type=1&theater
... but no word, as yet, of the eagerly-awaited SCGB figure on the size of the UK ski market. Bizarrely, the SCGB website carries no report more recent than 2012 ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/presscentre/snowsportsanalysis.aspx#.VBczKleCYig
So, pending the publication of the SCGB 2014 figure, here's a comparison of SCGB and Crystal data for the past 5 years ...
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NUMBER OF UK SKIERS AND SNOWBOARDERS
YEAR ........SCGB ......... CRYSTAL
2009-10 ... 1,120,000 ... 956,300
2010-11 ... 1,072,000 ... 910,900
2011-12 ... 1,056,000 ... 894,700
2012-13 ... 1,400,000 ... 899,700
2013-14 ... ? ............... 867,700
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Sources:
SCGB: http://www.skiclub.co.uk/assets/files/documents/nowsportsanalysis2012.pdf
Crystal: http://mag.digitalpc.co.uk/fvx/crystal/sir2014/
2013 SCGB data (concerning the jump to 1.4 million) as reported by PlanetSki and Skipedia last year ...
Skipedia 16.9.2013: "This is a higher proportion travelling independently than previous studies have suggested – The Ski Club believes the overall size of the snowsports market is 50% greater than the 900,000 proposed by Crystal Ski in their own report."
http://www.skipedia.co.uk/2013/09/ski-club-of-great-britain-2013-report-launch/
PlanetSki 17.9.2013: "The new report claimed there are 1.4m active skiers and snowboarders in the UK, but the figure from the Crystal Ski Industry report is 900,000."
http://www.planetski.eu/news/5321
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SKI CLUB OF GREAT BRITAIN 2014 ANNUAL REPORT [unofficial]
Item 5: UK Ski Market Research
Net Promoter Scores
Last week the Ski Club of Great Britain released market research data, partly in the form of a chart (right) expressing 'Net Promoter Scores' [NPS] for ski countries favoured by British skiers. The very high scores (53 and 59 respectively) for the USA and Canada, relative to the second-most-visited country Austria (32) and overall favourite France (30) seem very surprising. Why would France and Austria - which together attract over 60% of British skiers - score so low compared to the transatlantic countries (which together attract fewer than 4%)?
If France and Austria are so popular (each attracting about 30% of skiers) why do they each rate at about half the NPS of Canada (which only attracts about 2% of British skiers)?
Is the extra cost and time of travel to Canada/USA - let alone the jet lag on return - really 'discounted' by respondents to such a huge extent? Is the quality of the skiing, accommodation and overall experience in North America so much better? Why are so few skiers going to Canada and the USA if the NPS scores are so outstanding?
Frank McCusker, CEO of the SCGB, delivered a paper on 'Attracting International Visitors' last April to the Mountain Travel Symposium in Breckenridge, Colorado. So I guess the American ski industry will be pleased to know that the SCGB-quoted NPS score for skiing in the USA is 53, compared to 30/32 for France/Austria.
What's the big deal with NPS - is it a reliable indicator?
The chart above presents NPS as a definitive indicator. But shortly before joining the SCGB in 2012, Frank McCusker recorded a video interview at 'European Customer Experience World' in which he said the following about NPS:
"It doesn't really matter whether it's NPS or Customer Effort Score or what the hell it is ... What's important is that you're asking your consumers about your brand, about your product ... " [link to video below]
So ... on that basis, can we expect the 2014 Annual Report of the SCGB [the official one] to focus on some sort of statistical score for the SCGB itself - an indication of how much SCGB members think of their Club and how much they recommend it to others - or some other reflection of the issue?
What ... for instance ... is the NPS of Ski Club of Great Britain membership? Anyone know? Anyone wish to hazard a guess?
Sources:
Video interview with Frank McCusker (May 2012): http://www.mycustomer.com/video/voice-customer-programmes-practical-advice-achieving-company-buy
Video interview with Frank McCusker (Nov 2013): http://www.theskitrade.com/2014/01/the-ski-trade-talks-to-frank-mccusker/
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Tue 23-09-14 16:11; edited 3 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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There's another chart below the map of countries, headed "The most important things about ski countries" ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=9243#.VCGiAVeCYih
... and at the base it says "In Bayesian Averages". But the bars of the bar chart don't seem to show any averages.
I know what a Bavarian sausage is. What is a Bayesian average, and how do we see it on that chart?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
If France and Austria are so popular (each attracting about 30% of skiers) why do they each rate at about half the NPS of Canada (which only attracts about 2% of British skiers)?
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Because travellers to Canada overwhelmingly rated the experience to be good, while travellers to France and Austria were not so satisfied. The NPS figure has nothing to do with how many people actually visited each country, but whether or not those who visited (whatever the number) would recommend the destination to a friend.
As to why the respondents replied in this way, we need to see the answers to the second part of the NPS questionnaire, which is 'Why have you given this score?'
So are you asking 'Why do people continue to go to countries that score relatively low, and not to countries that score highly?'
Cost, convenience and availability are probably amongst the key factors - people might well like to go to Canada but they perhaps cannot afford it and it takes a long time to get there; and even if half a million people had the time and money to go, there is an upper limit to the number of airline seats available from the UK. So instead we all go to France, Italy and Austria - even though there are aspects about all three that we would like to see improved - because that is what is affordable, convenient and available.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
What ... for instance ... is the NPS of Ski Club of Great Britain membership? Anyone know? Anyone wish to hazard a guess?
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Quite high, at a guess. By definition people who remain members of a club are positive about that club, and hence would likely recommend it to others. Net Promoter Score is an attempt to gauge how likely that person is to promote you service / product / brand / etc.
It doesn't measure the effectiveness of the endorsement, simply that the person is likely to endorse (or otherwise). It's widely used in business.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| quinton wrote: |
| ... So are you asking 'Why do people continue to go to countries that score relatively low, and not to countries that score highly?' |
That's the question which those numbers throw up, although we've not seen the methodology of course. If they're honest, then they do fit with what I personally would expect.
Your rationale sounds right.
I'd add...
(a) Although to me a 10 hour flight is no issue, many people don't think find that to be the case
(b) Many people are pretty conservative and stick with what they know
(c) North America isn't set up the way Europe is - if you want to stay in one place for two weeks for example, they don't really have places big enough ("destination resorts") in North America. Whistler with 20 lifts isn't really the three valleys with 200.
(d) France is hardly known for customer service, I don't think you need more on that.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I know what a Bavarian sausage is. What is a Bayesian average, and how do we see it on that chart?
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A Bayesian average is a way of weighting a small number of responses to remove the effect of outliers by throwing in a prior belief about what the mean should be. It matches intuition about why a product on Amazon with ninety 5* reviews and one 4* review is probably better then one with just a single 5* review, even though the average review score of the former product is fractionally lower.
Given an info graphic with no scale on that horizontal bar chart, that represents a numbers seemingly the radius of a circle (although circles give the visual impression of their area), and that manages to draw France's 30 smaller than Switzerland's 29 I really have no way to say how we could see it in the chart or whether they understand what it means.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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mtsuit, thank you.
The Ski Club of Great Britain is busy analysing the achievements of other enterprises. The SCGB annual report, due in the next month, will be an opportunity to see how it analyses itself.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The generally accepted methodology for NPS is to ask the question "How likely are you to recommend X to a friend?" and offer a 1-10 scale.
Scores of 1-6 are listed as "Would not recommend" 7-8 are discarded and 9-10 are added to the NPS total, then presented as a percentage.
So, of the selection of people asked, anyone who said that the likelihood of recommending France to a friend of 8 or less wouldn't add to the total. Likewise the other locations. Probably how Andorra can get so high - a limited pool of people with perhaps limited experience of other resorts, and also explains the North America scores - most people going to NA would have experience of Europe, and perhaps compare their experience favourably, probably based on the number of other mountain users.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't find Nps scores for ski destinations a particularly useful measure. At the extreme you might have the most perfect resort ever that no one would promote to their peers because crowds would spoil it. Equally there is not a lot to be gained from vocal advocacy of well known areas because people might be expected to know about them or have experienced similar, so the social cachet of " being in the know" is negligible.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Would I recommend resort "X" to a friend is a naive question as applied to ski resorts at least.
If you just visited Fernie in the rain you'd maybe not reply "yes", but that's silly. If your friend was a beginner or a party person, you'd never reply "yes".... which means pretty much nothing.
Or about what management consultants have between their ears. These fashions come and go, raging through the world's business schools like cat pictures through twitter.
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Comedy Goldsmith, David Goldsmith, Its been so quiet without you, glad you're back 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Well done SCGB ..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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love the last line............ clever slip in 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
| #preseason#selfies |
urgh... teaclub talking tech (well, quasi-tech) gives me flashbacks to Richard Madeley doing his Ali G impression. Queasy now.
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You know it makes sense.
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Richard_Sideways, - It doesn't make me as queasy as one particular ex-member does. I wish he'd be as quiet as an ex-parrot.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Agghghh. "advice from" dear hearts, not "advice off". Who put the bloody illiterates in charge of press releases?
Or does this make it more street, and 'down wiv da yoof'?
[shiver]
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Another fascinating fact:
This thread - New Ski Club of Great Britain chat forum - has just surpassed 175,000 views, making it one of the most visited threads in snowHeads' history.
As shown, 175,000 is the number of gallons of soft drinks consumed by fans of the Detroit Pistons basketball team each season.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Events Executive in London at £19K? Good luck with that. If they get someone with more than two GCSEs and a smile they'll be doing well. Or are they going with the leaders model and hoping for enthusiastic volunteers to help their bottom line?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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SCGB Facebook page, today Latest on SCGB membership numbers ...
... mathematically impossible, it would seem
"Over 16500 households are members of the club – Ella Clark, Ski Club of Great Britain"
[Source: Point 28, '38 Soundbites from the LISTEX 2014 Ski Forum' - reported by Skipedia from this ski industry event a few days ago: http://www.skipedia.co.uk/2014/10/38-soundbites-from-the-listex-2014-ski-forum/ ]
" With over 33,000 members we’re the UK’s biggest snowsports community"
[Source: SCGB Facebook site 'About': https://www.facebook.com/TheSkiClub/info ]
"Over 16,500 households" presumably means the number of subscription units - the exact number of which may be reported in the SCGB's 2014 annual report (anyone seen it?), trailing the Club's annual general meeting on 20 November.
The SCGB did not report its subscription numbers in 2012 and 2013 - the figures were omitted from those annual reports.
The last SCGB annual report to carry the subscription figure was 2011 - 17,114 paying units. In that 2011 annual report, the Club's gross membership was reported as 31,448.
The current SCGB Facebook claim for its gross membership (33,000) is double the figure (16,500) currently quoted for subscription/household units.
This is mathematically impossible, based on the SCGB’s own information.
The 2011 figures were also mathematically impossible:
According to the Club’s joining offer, two memberships are granted per family group (presumably to define voting and ownership rights) ...
https://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/join/default.aspx#.VFT0qGfOoig
"Family membership = two members"
Of those 17,114 paying units in year 2011, 10,422 were individuals (leaving 6,692 family units comprising double that number as 13,384 family members). The total number of members, on that basis, was 23,806 in 2011 (though the Club declared the figure as 31,448).
Anyone care to clarify or double-check the maths?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
According to the Club’s joining offer, two memberships are granted per family group (presumably to define voting and ownership rights) ...
https://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/join/default.aspx#.VFT0qGfOoig
"Family membership = two members"
Of those 17,114 paying units in year 2011, 10,422 were individuals (leaving 6,692 family units comprising double that number as 13,384 family members). The total number of members, on that basis, was 23,806 in 2011 (though the Club declared the figure as 31,448).
Anyone care to clarify?
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Goldie, old boy (may I call you "Goldie"?), the Club has been knocking about for over 100 years and for most of that time, you've been asking for clarity. Have you ever received any? I think not. So, though I speak in no official capacity, I think it fairly safe to say "No, no-one cares to clarify."
I'm not sure the Club has ever paid particular attention to whether the figures added up and it's still here so why start now? After all who ever bothers checking?
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......maybe they went to the same school of accounting as Tesco 
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Not been on snowheads for a while. Now I remember why.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@ELGIT ... let me know your name and crevasse and I can drop you (by package on the end of a rope) regular updates on SCGB* numerical claims ... in all their preposterous wonder.
* Statistical Calamity of Great Britain
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FAQ
