 Poster: A snowHead
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rayscoops, Not every piste, but they will be expected to ski the pistes that they will be planning to lead the kids on. Why bother skiing gnarly black runs when you will never take the kids on them?
I dont have a school ski trip as I am NOT a teacher! However I would not expect the kids to be skiing with backpacks on 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Stephen101, Have you stopped being condoscending and talking out of your ar*e yet?
Oh and get that spell checker back on youve had loads of mishaps over the last few days 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ccl, I would ski down a piste that my guide had not been down, I would not climb down a pothole that my guide had not been down. very different indeed.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rayscoops, would you take your mates down a pothole you had never been down?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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kevindonkleywood, no but i would take them down any piste. This is getting silly
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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leedsunited,
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Oh and get that spell checker back
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Stephen101, Have you stopped being condoscending
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Pot-kettle? My spelling is probably the worst on here but even i know its condescending or am i missing the irony? 
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sun 29-05-11 15:44; edited 1 time in total
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rayscoops, so you would lead a group of mixed ability kids down ANY piste?
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kevindonkleywood, luckily pistes are graded, so I would take them down any piste appropriate for the ability of the group even if I had not actually been down it myself, just like most parents do when on ski holidays with their own kids.
The point I am making is that there are inherently more site specific dangers to risk assess with respect to the hazzardous activities on the Oldham website than skiing on a piste - have a look at the site and all the activities on it and you will understand what I mean. I do not think Stephen101 making reference to it enhances the argument for the absolute need for an inspection trip rather than the preference for a day or two to check things out. I would say that an inspection trip to take kids potholing or rock climbing would be a necessity, but not so for a trip to a nice fluffy ski resort and piste skiing, but I would expect an inspection trip if the ski trip was for off piste skiing or maybe advanced race training etc
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| kevindonkleywood, luckily pistes are graded, so I would take them down any piste appropriate for the ability of the group even if I had not actually been down it myself, just like most parents do when on ski holidays with their own kids. |
So Verte - graded green, at La Daille - would be tickety-boo then? Rather you than me.
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| .....nice fluffy ski resort.... |
Nice and fluffy like this?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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achilles, I was also thinking of that exception! In fairness there are not many green runs like "Verte"!
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Roy Hockley, well, there is for example Desmoiselles at Les Deux Alpes. Long, narrow, and lethal as a home run because it has a lot of skiers on it, with the odd reckless skier present. Talking of Les Deux Alpes, it has some of rayscoops' nice fluffy places too.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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achilles, Just "youtubed" it! I see what you mean! I would say it could be carnage! We have a run in our regular place, the blue les blanchois! I hate it, much prefer the "chavanette" or the "combe du machon"! IMO one of the toughest runs in the resort, because of traffic and conditions! Thankfully it is nowhere near as long as "desmoiselles"!
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Poster: A snowHead
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This is one of the most depressing threads snowHeads in a long time. Ad hominem attacks and pointless point-scoring on every page. And it's still only May. Next winter is a long way off if this is going to be typical of summer-time 'debate' 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Guilty as charged 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| This is one of the most depressing threads snowHeads in a long time. Ad hominem attacks and pointless point-scoring on every page. And it's still only May. Next winter is a long way off if this is going to be typical of summer-time 'debate' |
I'll second that, can't understand how it's gone on as long as it has.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| kevindonkleywood wrote: |
| I am still struggling to understand why you believe all runs to be equal in risk terms? |
I never said that 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| ccl, I would ski down a piste that my guide had not been down, I would not climb down a pothole that my guide had not been down. very different indeed. |
That response shows exactly why I can't be bothered taking any great part in such a sterile, repetitious and ill-argued discussion. It completely ignores the point I made and introduces yet another of these typical sideways shifts on to different but still shaky ground. What you would do on a ski slope and what you would do down a pothole says absolutely nothing relevant to a consideration of risk-assessment of the responsibility of taking other people's children abroad to ski.
I hope you recognise a pothole when you see one: you seem to have difficulty recognising when a hole has been made in your argument. 
By the way, it might be a good idea just to look up definitions of "inducement" and "bribe" and note the difference. It is significant.
Now I'm off to do something useful.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
By the way, it might be a good idea just to look up definitions of "inducement" and "bribe" and note the difference. It is significant.
Now I'm off to do something useful.
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Seconded
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In some instances the outcome is the same! The company gets an order based on the gift!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Roy Hockley wrote: |
| In some instances the outcome is the same! The company gets an order based on the gift! |
Gift, Inducement, Bribe all the same really.
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\"Gift, Inducement, Bribe all the same really.\"
Agreed. And the cost of these bribes given to teachers is paid for by all the company\'s customers not just parents of the spoilt brats in question.
Yet another example of the well educated, articulate and sharp elbowed middle class directly screwing money out of ordinary, hard working people.
It\'s the Shoesmith Syndrome.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Mon 30-05-11 10:18; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| kevindonkleywood wrote: |
rayscoops, Not every piste, but they will be expected to ski the pistes that they will be planning to lead the kids on. Why bother skiing gnarly black runs when you will never take the kids on them?
I dont have a school ski trip as I am NOT a teacher! However I would not expect the kids to be skiing with backpacks on |
Of course it would be useful to ski a piste (in advance) that you intend to lead kids down but whether it is essential to do so as a main argument that an inspection trip is required for a proper risk assessment to be completed is another matter. Skiing a piste once perhaps the season before the trip has been arranged is not massively helpful as conditions may well be completely different and personally I would rely upon the TO and/or instructors to provide an summary or runs, the setting of a route with expected timescales it should take etc that would be appropriate for the group.
With respect to the two 'greens' quoted above by Achilles I am sure that such difficulties would be identified, and I have been to LDA and never boarded the green in question because it is narrow, cuts across a mountain face that has two very difficult blacks and an off piste face in excess of 40 degrees and is the only non black/offpiste route back to the resort - any one who ever goes to LDA is basically advised to take the lift back to the resort and if a risk assessment did not identify that then it has failed on all accounts. You do not need to be a weather man to know which way the wind is blowing and you do not need to ski a piste to know it is one to avoid.
Also do you not think that the team leader and others will ski some of these pistes when they get there (especially when the kids will most likely be in lessons in the mornings anyway) and make adjustments to the risk assessment as appropriate based upon conditions/visibility and advice form those with a little more knowledge that are based in the resort etc etc ?
I have agreed that a day or two trip would be a good idea, and even better if it is being paid for by the school itself and I have identified that some trips (with the exception of a hotel room and transfer) fall in to this category. What I am disputing is the justifications that are being put forward for the trips, and imv it is simply good house keeping to go on a short inspection trip rather than essential for the safety of the kids. Some on here (Stephen101 and others) are happy that the teachers at their school get some enjoyment out of the trips too, no problems there either, but there is an element of a 'sweetner' in these trips imv.
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You know it makes sense.
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Boring thread. Do kid's not have to be supervised at all times by an instructor when on the slopes . I know they did when I was going on school trips over 30 years ago and H&S has gone mad since. So most of this drivel is irrelevant.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| PJSki wrote: |
\not just parents of the spoilt brats in question.
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That's one hell of a generelisation 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wayne, Just to stir it up a little. "Do you think he was on a freebie"?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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... mmm ... i wonder if that off piste route was skied as part of the inspection trip by the Ski Leaders ASL or ASCL trained
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This is genius from PJSki
Yet another example of the well educated, articulate and sharp elbowed middle class directly screwing money out of ordinary, hard working people.
Praise the class warrior, am pretty sure how ever you want to define it, and really who gives a sh**, if you can go skiing you aint one of the "ordinary hard working people" whoever they are, and if they are that hard working they would probably, by dint of effort, end up as one of the awful middle classes. Just like those ghastly "Middleton's" don't you know.
Anyway must dash the chauffer has just arrived to take me to the opera......
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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adie,
What's class? - New Labour abolished it when the solicitor and the barrister inhabited Number 10.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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noskitrip, both Blairs were (and I suppose are) barristers
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| achilles wrote: |
| noskitrip, both Blairs were (and I suppose are) barristers |
Ah! indeed they are. Never seen them skiing but he has been to the desert quite often...
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Tony was about as classless as Boris and Dave, Fetts, Oxbridge and a Barrister.
All that was really missing was a quick tour as subaltern with the household cavalry and he would have had a "full house" of classless meritocracy
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Arrrggghh, what is it with this, "If you ski, you are middle class" rubbish? 
I'm not middle class. You could argue this but really I'm not.
I also have friends you are most definitely not. One is a builder (ie, gets his hands dirty) and one is a market trader (no, not in the City, he has a stall  ). They have no qualifications to speak of, read the Sun (if anything), earn money and spend it (no deferred gratification for them  - probably why they ski) and have no middle class behaviour traits whatsoever.
They may have been in the past but now, anyone who thinks skiers are middle class, obviously goes to the wrong (right?  ) resorts.
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maggi
Jesus! A builder! How awful!
Isn't this game called 'prolier than thou...'?
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FAQ
a couple of years ago that was looking to get a group of fellow 
