 Poster: A snowHead
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Masque, I think you're getting unreasonably aerated by all this, you know? How do you *KNOW* that it's a turd that nixmap is trying to "sugar coat". You *MAY* be right, but you're coming across like you KNOW you're right and that's what is now making you come across like a hectoring bully yourself. In trying to uphold the corinthian values of this forum, you're just coming across like a virtual Mary Whitehouse type figure and I don't see what the huge problem is? I think you've allowed this all to get under your skin and could do with stepping back for a while.
Surely the value & merit of nixmap's offer is entirely down to the individual(s) concerned? How can you say what is and isn't value to me, for example? To some it may be an absolute godsend, to others it may be purgatory but I don't see how you have the right to say for anyone what their perception should be and I'm afraid that is how you're coming across at present.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| carled wrote: |
| ...... I don't see how you have the right to say for anyone what their perception should be ..... |
Er, cos this is an internet forum? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
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It matters not a jot what I think the abilities of the average snowHead but it's a certainty that many of us have a deep and, to much of the non-skiing populace, irrational love of sliding that has the capacity to circumvent a degree of rational thought and for some that will have led them to respond to your delightfully nebulous job advert
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Do you really think that? That we a whores to skiing? I dont think so. If people want to work for their keep in return for skiing a season then that is a perfectly rational choice. Whether it is a great deal or not will be down to the individual. But that individual is free to make their own choice. |
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Skola, sorry, can't for the life of me decipher the meaning of your gnomic explanation mark. You agree? You disagree? YOu think that was the daftest thing you ever read? The most brilliant?
Please elucidate.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yeah Carled has a point.
Whilst, Masque, I think you have a decent underlying argument, I’m afraid you are losing (have lost?) the moral high ground with posts ranging from overly aggressive to inappropriate.
That said, reading through your tone, you still have a valid point that Nixmap has failed in my view to defend.
I still do think it could be a reasonable deal for the right person IF they can negotiate/agree terms that suit themselves with Nixmap. Yet I do however agree with you that in reading all of Nixmap’s posts here, and on this years TGR thread, he is basically looking for an employee but without the baggage of an employee badge and all that comes with it. Bluntly it is a job masked as a favour for a favour arrangement - wrong, it is labour for a payment. It would undoubtedly cost him more to employ someone and pay them, he’d also have advertising/recruitment costs, and some responsibilities as employer. What is a pity is that he won’t just come clean and say yes this is a job, this is employment, and payment happens to be use of his chalet & apartment and not cash.
Ok he didn’t do himself any favours on the honesty stake with the title “ski for free”, but bluntly that is marketing, and frankly it worked. He’s got the liveliest, most amusing and interesting thread here now, and ultimately he got what he wanted - a fistful of “applicants” for his “arrangements” (read “candidates” for his “job”). He can now siphon through these and conclude who he can get the most work out of and who he will recruit - lets face it, all employers do this.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, Nixmap could easily ask last years incumbent to come here and post a few words about how it went - this is still suspicious by it’s absence and leads me to conclude that it is less favourable than Nixmap sells it as, and further logically concludes that they either left on bad terms and/or that Nixmap’s “contract” (I assume he will be expecting the “winning applicant” to sign something) prevents them from publishing any details.
.... or of course conspiracy theory, maybe Masque was last years incumbent, but he signed a contract and is not allowed to say so, and his posts is the only way he can interject
G
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Yeah Carled has a point.
Whilst, Masque, I think you have a decent underlying argument, I’m afraid you are losing (have lost?) the moral high ground with posts ranging from overly aggressive to inappropriate.
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Yes.
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| carled wrote: |
you're just coming across like a virtual Mary Whitehouse type figure
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Not sure I'd expect Mary Whitehouse to be using the kind of language Masque has been 
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| Gazzza wrote: |
concludes that they either left on bad terms and/or that Nixmap’s “contract” (I assume he will be expecting the “winning applicant” to sign something) prevents them from publishing any details.
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Neither of your conclusions are correct,Have you considered that anyone looking at the kind of reception ive recieved, could be disinclined to enter the fray.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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nixmap, I think people on Snowheads generally get a pretty good reception. To be fair, people only started getting narky with you when you declined to answer perfectly reasonable questions. Or continued to insist, despite all commonsense to the contrary, that a job which involved weekends PLUS school holidays would still only be a 2 day a week job. That's what got me. Internal inconsistency.....
however I'm sure there are plenty of people (in fact almost all people) who wouldn't dream of going on any kind of internet forum in any guise, no matter how happy their experience. Got better things to do, I guess. I am escaping from my mother in law, just at the moment...... I've cooked a very good supper and now I'm having a break. With a glass of the quite pleasant free wine I got from Ocado. 
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Been on the road and no wifi so I'm late back to the party. Have to agree that I've been a little . . shall we say . . . intemperate?  Here's why.
After sitting and reading this whole thread I realised that nixmap's little State of Denmark didn't just whiff a bit, but is putrid  But it needed nixmap to add just a little meat to the bleached bones of his offer and now we've got to the point where we, and anyone else, can understand that this is a job of housekeeping and childminding with remuneration as a 'benefit in kind'. Whether this remuneration is adequate or proportional is down to the ignorance/stupidity/greed or laissez-faire of the applicant . . . but they need to know the following:
Both the Swiss and the UK tax authorities see a 'benefit in kind' as income. How they treat it is down to the specifics of the arrangement, but neither like to learn about it by serendipity.
Since a season is more than 3 months and that's the limit without having an arrangement with Swiss emigration AND you're working in performing housekeeping duties that you specifically have to be registered for with the Swiss authorities from your first day of work, you're already contemplating breaking Swiss law by responding to this add
Of course your EU heath card will cover your health care as a tourist . . . but you're working, so before the end of three months (the Swiss do keep very accurate records of movements through their borders) you need to apply to become part of the Swiss system . . . but that would mean that you need to be lawfully in the employment system. . . . right You're going to lie to the doctors?
But what about insurance? You're working, do you have any? And did you know that your employer needs to have that arranged before you start work?
Then of course there are the liabilities: Let's try a few of simple ones . . .
1: You burn down nixmap's shack.
2: nixmap's shack is a H&S nightmare and summat falls off a wall and injures you
3: For all your culinary expertise, you manage to food poison nixmap and his sprogs
Who's liable?????
And then there's the bitch in his whorehouse. Both the Swiss and GB have very explicit laws about childminding professionals. Any arrangement that involves remuneration of any kind is strictly regulated. Are you qualified? And if you are does your professional body agree to you working in an ad-hoc illegal arrangement?
This thread is a clever, subtle attempt to circumvent Swiss Tax, Labour and Emigration laws and puts the applicants at risk. Not only for complicity in a criminal conspiracy but also at risk from future mendacity by nixmap
It's hard to believe that anyone living in or owning a property in Switzerland would phrase an offer(s) in this thread without knowing exactly what he's doing
If I had any authority here I would bar the asshole from ever posting here again . . ..
BUT, I COULD BE WRONG! . . . [b]nixmap the floor is yours.[/b]
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sat 1-08-09 19:19; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If I didnt have anything better to do then I would take the job. Sounds like an easy way to live in the alps
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Nadenoodlee,
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Nadenoodlee, If you want to get deported and never ski there again
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You know it makes sense.
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Nadenoodlee, yes, it would go a fair way to meeting your expenses. For a couple, given the (completely unspecified) number of days in the season when you'd actually have to be feeding people, cleaning etc, you'd get a roof (quite a nice roof, by the sound of it) over your head for, say, 4/8 man days of work. Whether it's a good deal depends on how much work it is (impossible to tell from the thread, but the coyness about details is a bit suspicious) and on the opportunity cost of your time. If you decided the work/reward ratio was fair, and if you had the private means to feed yourselves (there's been no suggestion that food is included), buy your beers, your ski passes, etc. and if you liked the kids, and the family, it could be a pleasant way to spend the winter. But no way is it "free" - it would actually cost you a fair bit of dosh. Is it worth having an unspecified amount of work to do to save the rental on a nice little studio for two in an unknown and low cost resort?
I agree that Masque's language is intemperate, but he's raised some good points in amongst the bluster. It is, without doubt, a job in most people's books. Possibly including the Swiss tax authorities.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| nixmap wrote: |
| Neither of your conclusions are correct |
Then evidence it. In one fell swoop you can silence all your critics.
| nixmap wrote: |
| Have you considered that anyone looking at the kind of reception ive recieved, could be disinclined to enter the fray. |
Nope, because it's poppycock. You have had a balanced reception: some supporters, some critics, and a few OTT posts with potty mouthed language. Hardly stuff of nightmares that's going to have you or last years employee quaking in their boots, terrified of posting their opinion and reaching for a copy of the yellow pages to find a local therapist.
Last years incumbent would be welcomed with open arms if they came on and posted their thoughts on the experience and, if everything you say is true, you would silence your critics.
If it went well last year (for both parties), no half decent person would mind spending 3 minutes jotting their thoughts down to a) help you out, and b) potentially benefit people who are interested this year.
Therefore my logical conclsion still stands, unless you can prove otherwise.
G
PS. You've got winter and summer covered. You can cover spring too by targetting white water kayakers. "Canoe the meltwater all Spring - FOR FREE" !
That just leaves you autumn to do your own cooking and cleaning.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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and a few years hence ..... you can stay free all year in exchange for pureeing some food and providing personal care for two quiet residents.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Masque wrote: |
...... this is a job of housekeeping and childminding with remuneration as a 'benefit in kind'. ....
Both the Swiss and the UK tax authorities see a 'benefit in kind' as income. ...... |
I think so, too.
| Quote: |
| Since a season is more than 3 months and that's the limit without having an arrangement with Swiss emigration AND you're working in performing housekeeping duties that you specifically have to be registered for with the Swiss authorities from your first day of work, you're already contemplating breaking Swiss law by responding to this.... |
Not sure about this. I think that depends on the degree of ignorance of the applicant, and the consequences might depend on how Swiss law regards the principle of 'guilty intent'.
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Of course your EU heath card will cover your health care as a tourist . . . but you're working ........
But what about insurance? You're working, do you have any? And did you know that your employer needs to have that arranged before you start work?
Then of course there are the liabilities: Let's try a few of simple ones . . .
1: You burn down nixmap's shack.
2: nixmap's shack is a H&S nightmare and summat falls off a wall and injures you
3: For all your culinary expertise, you manage to food poison nixmap and his sprogs
Who's liable?????
.........Both the Swiss and GB have very explicit laws about childminding professionals. Any arrangement that involves remuneration of any kind is strictly regulated. Are you qualified? And if you are does your professional body agree to you working in an ad-hoc illegal arrangement?
This thread is a clever, subtle attempt to circumvent Swiss Tax, Labour and Emigration laws and puts the applicants at risk. |
Overall, I think that Masque has made a reasonable case, even if his language is colourful. In which case snowheads should not be displaying promotional material (including this thread) from or for nixmap.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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pam w,
| Quote: |
It is, without doubt, a job in most people's books. Possibly including the Swiss tax authorities.
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Certainly true, but hardly an uncommon arrangement.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Gazzza wrote: |
| nixmap wrote: |
| Neither of your conclusions are correct |
Then evidence it. In one fell swoop you can silence all your critics. |
Whatever way the OP tried to wiggle around, it's pretty obvious last years candidate did NOT work out as perfectly as either of them originally thought.
Perhaps the cleanliness or the food preparation wasn't quite up to OP's expectation?
Why didn't last year's "employee" doesn't post here? Probably because they didn't feel like it. Especially when they knew they worked more hours than they expect and yet not met the expectation of their employer.
I will further venture to guess the arrangement of last season did NOT turn out disasterously for either party. So they might have parted on "polite" terms, knowing full well both parties fell short on their expectation yet not totally failed.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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This is all just mindless speculation. I think I answered this fairly on the first page of the thread.
Shortlisted applicants, naturally, were free to ask any detailed questions in private.
You can find this a few posts underneath where Masque commented about exploiting some Polish Housemaids for his benefit.
I dont think my answer has changed, although Masques attittude towards exploitation of migrant workers, appears a little different 
I guess people will just say anything that comes into their heads in forums, Masque Im glad your language got cleaner, but there is still a lot of anger, in your post. I hope it wasn't something I said. After all werent you supposed to be baiting me?
Nix.
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nixmap, There's nothing in my post that is speculation and you're now demonstrating what a duplicitous dickwad you are
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Que veut dire "activité lucrative" ou "occuper" ou "faire travailler" au sens du droit des étrangers?
Les étrangers qui veulent exercer une activité lucrative en Suisse ont besoin en principe d'une autorisation. Toute activité qui dépasse le simple petit service et qui est exercée normalement contre rémunération doit être qualifiée d'activité lucrative. La durée de l'activité lucrative est en l'occurrence indifférente, de même que la question de savoir s'il s'agit d'une activité principale ou accessoire (art. 11 LEtr).
Autorisation de séjour et de travail
Le droit des étrangers distingue, en ce qui concerne les prescriptions régissant l'obligation de s'annoncer et l’assujettissement à autorisation, entre l'activité lucrative avec prise d'emploi et l'activité lucrative sans prise d'emploi.
1. Activité lucrative avec prise d'emploi
Notion: Est réputée activité lucrative avec prise d'emploi l'activité exercée pour un employeur domicilié en Suisse ou dans un établissement suisse d'une entreprise domiciliée à l'étranger, ainsi que la construction de bâtiments et d'installations.
Obligation d’autorisation: Les étrangers qui veulent entrer en Suisse pour y exercer une activité lucrative avec prise d'emploi ont besoin d'un visa ou d'une assurance d'autorisation de séjour. Ils n'ont pas le droit de prendre leur emploi avant que l'autorité compétente en matière d'étrangers n'ait délivré l'autorisation. Celle-ci présuppose, pour les travailleurs provenant d’Etats non-membres de l’UE/AELE, une décision préalable positive de l’autorité du marché du travail ainsi que l’approbation de l’ODM. La demande d'autorisation de travail est présentée normalement par l'employeur suisse à l'autorité du marché du travail du canton de travail.
2. Activité lucrative sans prise d'emploi
Notion: Est réputée activité lucrative sans prise d'emploi l'activité indépendante ou l'activité exercée au profit d’un employeur domicilié à l'étranger. Entrent notamment dans cette catégorie les prestataires de services étrangers (p. ex. des voyageurs de commerce, des fournisseurs de marchandises, des monteurs, des exposants) qui fournissent en Suisse une prestation transfrontalière.
Obligation d’autorisation: Une activité lucrative sans prise d'emploi peut être exercée sans autorisation huit jours par année civile. Une autorisation de séjour est cependant nécessaire à partir du neuvième jour (art. 14 OASA). L’étranger qui a déposé une demande d'autorisation de l’activité lucrative attend la décision à l’étranger (art. 17 al. 1 OASA).
Les activités exercées dans les secteurs ci-après sont soumises à autorisation dès le 1er jour::
* construction, génie civil et second oeuvre (par exemple, travaux de canalisation, d’installation de câbles électriques, de jardins d’hiver, de cheminées de salon, de garages, de jardinage et d’horticulture)
* restauration, hôtellerie et nettoyage industriel ou domestique
* surveillance et sécurité
* commerce itinérant
* industrie du sexe |
There's plenty more and I'm sure you know all about it. You've posted a thread here inviting applicants to work illegally in Switzerland. You have not answered any of the questions and given that by subterfuge you are inviting members of snowHeads to partake in a criminal activity I believe that alone should bar you from this community.
As you refuse to answer us, should it be proper for you to answer those with a more formal interest?
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hardly an uncommon arrangement.
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Hurtle, absolutely not - it's just that the OP refuses to accept it's a job, just as he refused to accept that logically, given his own requirements, it cn't be a 2 day a week job. It's that flying in the face of logic that riles me - like insisting that if you have snow cannons you can have snow any old time.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Naturally, applicants have to make the correct visa applications. Its not that difficult.
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| Quote: |
| There's nothing in my post that is speculation and you're now demonstrating what a duplicitous dickwad you are |
Funny cos from my POV it's you that comes across as the w@nker, i take this purely from what you post as i dont know either of you, nixmap may be a liar but i'd rather spend 1 month with him than 1 morning with you, can only think your a hoot on holiday......is there a mrs Masque?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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geeo, Fair point and based on this thread alone I probably wouldn't want to spend a morning with me. However being a mouthy, angry, w@nker has got us to the point . . . far too late mind . . . where we realise that nixmap isn't a liar but has used evasion, equivocation and dissembling to persuade members of this community to benefit him financially and almost certainly to their detriment. For that abuse I'm content to be called whatever you like as long as we gain insight into nixmap's deceptions.
Do you think that anyone so unwilling to be open about the offer and its terms and conditions is going to be any more forthcoming to the applicants? nixmap isn't stupid, he's clearly highly skilled at information manipulation and I hazard that he's equally skilled in manipulating human interactions. Once you get beyond the genial sneer there is nothing to provide any reason to trust him to behave honourably toward the applicants.
Is he a crook? So far he's provided nothing to prove otherwise other than to admit that the applicants will need authorisation from the Swiss to work there. But does he have the right to be an employer in Switzerland and will he meet his requirements as such?
Also he's said nothing about the minefield of liabilities and in particular regarding childcare.
geeo, I'll stay an angry w@anker about this bumwipe 'till either he stops abusing this forum or is thrown off it. As I've said, I'm not always an asshole . . . as hard as I try
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Masqueit's only your opinion that you're not an asshole all the time.
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You know it makes sense.
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Masque, I wonder how you and nixmap, would hold out on one of those American shows where the contestants has to keep touching a car for as long as it takes, days on ends, in order to win the car. Battle of the wills.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
one of those American shows where the contestants has to keep touching a car for as long as it takes, days on ends, in order to win the car. Battle of the wills.
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Gosh, I really need to watch more telly. Never heard of that.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Shimmy Alcott, Nixmap would cheat. Been doing some fag packet maths and this little subterfuge will save him 6000+ and the childcare thing is real important . The Swiss are even contemplating that Aunts and Uncles will need to be licensed to babysit their nieces and nephews. The guy is blatantly lying about the free time to ski. The whole thing is a scam and will put the applicants in real danger. Commonsense shows us that you'd be better off, safer with more skiing time, working a season with a TO
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Im presuming you're not locked in the chalet and that if you didnt like it you could leave.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Right, I have a solution .......
I will take the job .. and then everytime Nixmap is not at the chalet for which i would have their schedule the chalet would be subleased to local Swiss as advertised in local papers and forums throughout Switzerland.
Mon-Fri un-catered luxury chalet £60 per person per night, catered chalet £150 per person per night (Breakfast afternoon cake, dinner & house wine/beer)
Short stays encouraged.
contact nixmapgetspwnd@makemoneyfromotherpeopleschalets.com
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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plectrum, I don't need to the chalet, how much is it just for the cake and wine?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Strangely enough, wasn't plectrum's suggestion contemplated in last year's thread?
| Quote: |
| Both the Swiss and the UK tax authorities see a 'benefit in kind' as income. How they treat it is down to the specifics of the arrangement, but neither like to learn about it by serendipity. |
I cannot speak for the Swiss. However, the UK tax authorities do not see accommodation where the employee is required to live on site (otherwise than when the employee is a Director of the employing Company) as a benefit in kind. Employees earning less than £9,600 pa are not taxed on their benefits. If you're going to rant at Nixmap, at least get some fact behind your rant.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Masque wrote: |
nixmap, There's nothing in my post that is speculation and you're now demonstrating what a duplicitous dickwad you are
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Most of what you have posted about the legality of the role is speculation.
Most (probably all) of what you have posted about the legal requirements is factual and not speculative, but whether he is meeting them is speculative.
You have NO IDEA whether he is in fact attempting to circumvent any immigration/employment laws, because you have NO IDEA what arrenagments he has in place regarding these, nor what type of visa he would require the successful applicant to acquire.
All of what you have stated as fact is POSSIBLE. It may even be likely (his lack of willingness to answer certain questions does tend to point that way). But it by no means certain, and so is definitely speculation on your part.
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If you feel as strongly about it as you appear you could always contact the authorities and get them to call out and see if all taxes, visa requirements are being adhered to
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| James the Last wrote: |
| ......I cannot speak for the Swiss. However, the UK tax authorities do not see accommodation where the employee is required to live on site (otherwise than when the employee is a Director of the employing Company) as a benefit in kind. Employees earning less than £9,600 pa are not taxed on their benefits. If you're going to rant at Nixmap, at least get some fact behind your rant. |
A manager of licensed premises living rent free as part of his job would not be seen as having a benefit in kind, according to advice I took from an accountant a little while back. But then, the primary purpose of the manager's job was not to have free accommodation (specific case and circumstances, not saying this would apply generally). I am not so sure how the HMRC would see a barter scam, where the main aim for one of the parties was to receive free accommodation. Do you know?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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achilles, HMRC now require 'evidence' such as an insurance company requirement that the premises must have a responsible person in residence. Otherwise the provision of accom can be declared as a benefit in kind, but the revenue treats each case individualy. The major pubco's all have an insurance requirement and an understanding with the revenue.
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Now getting some proper debate, about bloody time! I'm for bed and I've an early start so I'll comment on the flipside.
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FAQ
