I think you'd have to go a long way to find an organisation with a track record for getting free/subsidised accommodation to match that of the SCGB.
As far as I can see, the SCGB is paying £100k to £150k in rent for its reps' accommodation. Which resorts still host the rep for free, or on a subsidised basis?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Chuck Berry welcomes you to page 66. There is no better ...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
George Jones wrote:
Bode Swiller, Yet predictions of SCGB's imminent demise keep having to be postponed as member numbers remain constant.
I wouldn't predict the imminent demise of SCGB but the pressure is certainly on. Think everyone can see the issue with an ageing ski population, the fact that SCGB is having to spend £275K++ on marketing just to stand still and that the deconstructed social skiing model pioneered by the SH bashes is gaining in popularity. There will be a tipping point.
Fair enough. Maybe the club should have engaged CG to go through the report with a fine toothcomb instead of expelling him. A damage limitation exercise. 'How will this play in Preston?'
He would still want to close the club down but more transparency might give him less ammunition to speculate. Or possibly more if he discovered irregularities.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Karlheinz Berry on piste 66.
This works really well with the music above running, and improves Herr Berry's skiing (which needs all the improvement it can get) ...
Comedy Goldsmith, I would imagine quite a few, there are some 170 reps in the 30 or so resorts around the world for the coming season, if we take an average return journey including transfers parking etc. to be £300 allowing for some long flights and a number of peak holiday flights, that comes to £51,000 say each rep has a minimum of 2 weeks and a maximum of 3 weeks in the resort so 340 weeks to 510 weeks that means each rep averages out at £370 to £560 to cover ski pass, insurance, food and accommodation. Now lets say that ski pass comes to no more than £20 per day so that's £140, bed and breakfast for say £40 per night another £280, Resort Lunch and dinner £30 per day so £210, Insurance as a group leader must be at least £20 per day or another £140 total per week grand total £770 per week, or considerably more than the £560 maximum calculated. Thus we can see that a good number of resorts must give some type of discount, some might give free passes, some free accommodation or meals or all of the above whilst others give very little.
I would assume that the club only sends reps to resorts that give no discounts if they think that sufficient members will go there and use their services or if that resort always generates a lot of new member signups
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
D G Orf wrote:
I would assume that the club only sends reps to resorts that give no discounts if they think that sufficient members will go there and use their services or if that resort always generates a lot of new member signups
I wouldn't say it even needs new signups. That's certainly a plus, but I think it's more where the members want the leaders to be. How many members would leave the club if leaders weren't present in their favourite resorts?
After all it is free
After all it is free
Interesting question...........I would imagine a lot.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
It's simple; they seek to locate where the Brits ski, where they can get permission, and remain if enough punters ski with them to justify the costs.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Seems that the thread"Is" talking its way out with sensible answers/alternatives to the sensationalist suggestions offered. Beep beep beep goes the unattended SCGB transceiver in search mode ...
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
The Significance of 1961. Part One
If a year had to be picked ... that marked a turning point for the Ski Club of Great Britain, within its 110-year history ... 1961 might be it. That was the summer the SCGB's biggest-ever event took place ... reported spectacularly in this newsreel, uploaded by the Club in the past week ...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Comedy Goldsmith, how was that ski jumping extravaganza funded? Did all the members benefit or was it just a ski jumping gravy train for the ski jumping cognoscenti with their noses in the ski jumping trough? Can we see the accounts from 1961 please.
... the question is: Did the SCGB engage with that project (which triggered the development of Aviemore in the 1960s)? Did the SCGB immerse itself with Scottish skiing generally? Where was the SCGB when the first demand for ski instructors on the Scottish mountains became obvious and pressing?
I get the impression that 1961 was the year the tide began to turn for the Ski Club, in relation to the UK's national skiing community and its relevance to these fine people.
[/end of historical note]
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
So you're suggesting that SCGB has been on a slippery slope (geddit!) for 52 years... Thats offically a shallow gradient.
Sorry, I don't have that set. Mainly 1985 onwards in my file.
Would anyone care to visit the library? I agree that the accounts for 1961 might make interesting reading. Perhaps "Scaffolding bill" replaced "Skiing operations" in that year.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
feef wrote:
How many members would leave the club if leaders weren't present in their favourite resorts?
snowHeads seems to be going OK without "leaders ... present in their favourite resorts?"
Are we beginning to see the light?
Leaders aren't something that snowheads care about. Leaders does seem to be one thing that at least a significant chunk of the membership of the ski club care about.
One is an online community which has come to organise things as a collective for the sort of people who like getting stuck in. I'm involved in several communities like that operate in this manner.
One is a more traditional bricks and mortar club community, the membership of which appear to prefer to have some direction and consistency with things organised for them instead of be part of the organising. I'm also the member of more than one club that operates in this manner. The majority of the membership in those organisations seem equally as ambivalent about the finances and internal organisation of the respective clubs, as long as they get what they signed up for.
SH and SCGB are two very different animals albeit with a common theme of skiing.
I still fail to see how the two methods of operation are mutually exclusive.
After all it is free
After all it is free
feef, Agreed.
SCGB members are not particulaly interested in internet forums either.
As you point out, different but not mutually exclusive.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
That's right. We know the two things aren't mutually exclusive, because from 2002 to 2004 the reps (as they were then called) co-existed with the original open public chat forum on skiclub.co.uk.
The Club argued that it closed the forum because of legal liability (I'm not aware of a single libel suit in the entire 15-20 year history of online ski forums in the UK). We know the forum was really closed because the rep policy (especially off-piste) was being challenged by expert opinion on the forum. So censorship took hold.
The massive irony is that the Club's real legal exposure is due to personal accidents and fatalities which take place in SCGB off-piste activities. These are the legal actions that actually cost money and force up insurance premiums for the Club.
[And yours truly is being told he's libelled the Club, but that's a minor ironic point]
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Comedy Goldsmith, I am noticing a pattern where if one of your questions is answered you find a different objection.
Yes, the club is tight-lipped about a lot of things.
Fact is most members still value the leader service and would quit the club if it ceased to be available.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
George Jones wrote:
Fact is most members still value the leader service and would quit the club if it ceased to be available.
"Most"?
George, the statistical evidence is staring you in the face. 3000 out of 30,000 SCGB members ski with a rep each winter. So why would "most" quit the Club if the service stopped? A maximum of 10% would quit, and only if the revised membership package didn't suit them on other fronts.
This is just a 34-resort-carriage gravy Eurostar (optional gravy flights available) of expenses-paid skiing, for a small and very vocal group of SCGB members who pull the purse strings! It's a one-armed bandit that pays out every time!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
You are putting two and two together and making five.
The numbers who use the service in any one year are different to those who value the service. I do not use the service every year. I may go to a resort with no leader. But I still value the availabilty of a leader service. It is the main reason I remain a member - not the magazine, not the discounts, not the insurance. Research shows a leader service is the main attraction of the club for most members.
Gravy train? You are easily pleased. A bit two bob for a gravy train - taking into account most members comfortable financial situation.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
60 quid is a lot to pay each year for a service to be there, that you might make use of one year. But I'm sure 12,001 people do exactly that, with a further 3000 actually using it.
Personally, I wouldn't pay more than 20/yr for membership.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
The dead dummy is back, on Facebook this time.
Personally I didn't find the video convincing - it seemed like another strange alliance of the insurance business with the helmet business.
Once again, the best UK source of independent scientific information about head injuries and helmets is written by a doctor who serves on the Cairngorm ski patrol and has hosted the International Symposium on Safety in Skiing (ISSS) in Aviemore ...
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Tue 3-12-13 13:58; edited 2 times in total
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
andy, Say you get a discount or two, plus a free magazine every now and again. And the year you do use it, it might be worth more than the annual subscription.
Does not seem so bad if you look at it that way.
Or you could just nickel and dime it and only join for a year when you are actually in a leader resort and use the service.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
CG
Quote:
The Club argued that it closed the forum because of legal liability (I'm not aware of a single libel suit in the entire 15-20 year history of online ski forums in the UK). We know the forum was really closed because the rep policy (especially off-piste) was being challenged by expert opinion on the forum. So censorship took hold.
But of course if we go all the way back, er, 1 page to where you were trying to make a different point, we find:
Quote:
that was a year the Club had top-line professional leadership - Sally Cartwright OBE, publishing director of Hello! magazine, and not a leader/rep of the Ski Club.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Could argue it's the chalet and business owners that give exclusive discounts that are essentially funding it. I know plenty that join up just because 10% discount for members only on a chalet for 6 is going to exceed the 60 they paid to join.
Lots of discounts available for non-members, if you know where to look.
The other 14,999 probably are those that join for discounts only, or re-sub because they've always been a member, and have always had the magazine. I contemplated being one of them once, but as a non-resident, essentially I couldn't make use of half of the benefits (Freshtracks, Insurance, etc.), with only potential discounts, a rep, and a rag for 60 quid. The events of 9 years and 10 months ago was just the bit that made my mind up.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Beck Daross, I assume the point you're making is that Sally Cartwright was chairman of the SCGB at the time its public forum closed (Feb 2004). I'm not necessarily saying that "top-line professionals" in publishing are that respectful of new-wave publishing (social media)!
At the subsequent SCGB AGM (Nov 2004), the statement concerning the closure decision was given by Neil Britten, a member of SCGB Council who subsequently became the Club's chairman.
Quite. New Wave Publishing tends to be full of cranks and weirdos pushing fantastical theories under their own agendas. Traditional print media setup costs used to keep these bozos out on the fringe, pressing poorly xeroxed pamplets into the hands of passing people... New media like forums, and Facebook allows an outlet for the personal rantfests and people seem to lay credence to it... oh well. Thats democracy for you.
*cough*
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
With reference to the helmet video I notice they did the test at speeds up to 30kph but only talked about helmets making a life saving difference at 20kph, I wonder if this is because oif you hit a tree at 30 kph helmet or not the injuries are major, as for speeds I suspect I rarely travel below 30kph save on the flat and on restricted space blue runs, 60 to 70 kph is probably closer and I've managed nearly 100kph on a fast schuss so what good a helmet then if I hit a tree ?
I've always told my friends it is far better to be in control than to be travelling at high speed not quite in control, I've seen a lot of accidents some nasty where people were travelling too fast for their own ability.
Now having said all that I do believe there is a place for ski helmets and that is on beginners, and kids, the kids tend to go as fast as they can but do not have a lot of mass so a helmet would be a plus and beginners frequently are not in control and tend (except for kids) to go quite slow, in these cases helmets could do a lot of good
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
This is just a 34-resort-carriage gravy Eurostar (optional gravy flights available) of expenses-paid skiing, for a small and very vocal group of SCGB members who pull the purse strings! It's a one-armed bandit that pays out every time!
Have you ever been a rep/leader? Or, if not, considered becoming one?
It seems attractive to you and I am sure you could have done a good job.
After all it is free
After all it is free
I became a ski instructor, George. If the SCGB had retained roots in Scottish skiing (the first few decades were fine) it would have become the training/qualifying body ... but I turned to BASI. BASI was founded two years after Cairngorm gained its chairlift in 1961 (see above).
The idea of leading skiers off-piste with inadequate training doesn't appeal to me at all, I'm afraid. Even with a BASI ticket I'd have been very wary of doing anything as risky as that.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
So David - you think that the SCGB missed the chance to become to British skiing what the RYA is to sailing? You may be right but that ship sailed 50-odd years ago (deliberate CG-esque pun) and I'm puzzled as to why it's apparently still such an issue for you.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Sorry David, I try to be objective and light hearted, but that response must have been made by ...
Tragi Comedy Goldsmith
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
