 Poster: A snowHead
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Sky News have an item on use of Ski Helmets atm. Pete Gillespie is being interviewed at length. Being Sky News it's likely to be repeated endlessly throughout the day.
Pretty much like here really 
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 29-11-13 17:51; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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More useful than an item on Ski News about Sky Helmets.
For non-Sky-benefactors ... what were the key points?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Comedy Goldsmith, Sky news is available on Freeview (channel 82). No subscription needed.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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PSG admitted they were a global conspiracy and only yesterday had he received a large manilla envelope stuffed with used fifties round the back of the car wash at the snowcentre from a mysterious Mr Madison.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Genuinely funny! I'll give you 50p for that, in used coins.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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boredsurfin,
From now on, sod the helmet I'm wearing a box 
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boredsurfin, all I got was a 30-sec video with poor sound. Is there a full version?
The dummy skiing into the tree should take some lessons.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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boredsurfin, all I got was a crash test dummy hitting a tree (the idiot), no Gilleski
Anyhow, here's the puff that went with the piece:
| Quote: |
Crash test dummies have been used to examine the damage to skiers not wearing helmets who are involved in collisions.
Of the thousands of people heading off to the snowy slopes this winter, many are likely to come back with a bruise or muscle strain.
But people who fail to wear helmets while skiing or snowboarding could be putting themselves in a lot more danger.
The study found that skiers who wear helmets experience at least two thirds less g-force when hitting a tree at 10, 20 or 30kph than those without.
A test was not carried out on a dummy without a helmet at 30kph (18mph) because the risk of damaging it was too great.
If a human crashed at this speed it is likely that they would be dead.
And in a crash at 20kph the head experiences a force of nearly two tons which can also cause life-threatening injuries.
Tom Bishop, head of travel insurance at Direct Line said: "Although we do not enforce the use of helmets when taking part in winter sports, the safety of our customers on the slopes is paramount to us.
"This is why we strongly encourage the use of approved helmets when skiing or snowboarding, especially in light of this illuminating research.
"We deal with around 3,000 winter sports claims per year, the majority of which will be medical, and unfortunately three or four of these per year will be fatalities."
The average cost of a winter sports medical claim is £864. |
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OMG ... it's like Swiller and me are two identical (damaged) brains in one helmet. Horrifying
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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So, a study discovers that skiing into a tree is a really bad idea. Well you could knock me over with a feather. Really?
They see 3 or 4 fatalities per year out of 3,000 incidents yet don't say what the fatalities are... heart attacks? strokes? car accidents? Yet again, any old fatality gets linked to helmets.
I have Sky News on now and am awaiting the re-run.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
| The study found that skiers who wear helmets experience at least two thirds less g-force when hitting a tree at 10, 20 or 30kph than those without. |
How the hell does that work snowHeads scientists?
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I suspect it the shock load transferred from the impact to the brain they're talking about, but using small words for a 30 second news-spurt.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The study found that skiers who wear helmets experience at least two thirds less g-force when hitting a tree at 10, 20 or 30kph than those without. |
How the hell does that work snowHeads scientists? |
I think the journalist omitted the bit about the g-force being applied to the head of the skier, not the skier as a whole
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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G force is caused by the deceleration of the skull, as helmet liner deforms it reduces the deceleration of the skull................. maybe?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
The study found that skiers who wear helmets experience at least two thirds less g-force when hitting a tree at 10, 20 or 30kph than those without.
How the hell does that work snowHeads scientists?
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It just means the head in a helmet decelerates more slowly. As above, lazy journo-speak.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I think the journalist omitted the bit about the g-force being applied to the head of the skier, not the skier as a whole
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Are you sure? Why omit important words in a report unless you are actually unsure of whether what you say is correct or not. Especially one that uses the units for mass (tons) instead of the units for force (Newtons)
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And in a crash at 20kph the head experiences a force of nearly two tons which can also cause life-threatening injuries.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sadly, most journalists have about the same amount of time to prepare a story as you spend to read it. They don't get any/much research help anymore, so it's hardly surprising things get a bit sloppy.
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Especially one that uses the units for mass (tons) instead of the units for force (Newtons)
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Not a surprising change. Most viewers struggle to cope with even simple things like percentages (especially Sky viewers), so there is an inevitable dumbing down of anything vaguely scientific/mathematical. How often have you heard journalists say nonsense like 'x is three times less likely than...' or use clumsy fractions where a percentage would be better 'four in ten of us prefer skiing to eating unripe bananas'?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It also didn't say who did or commissioned the study. Was it a helmet manufacturer? Journalists might not have a great deal of time but such things are quite important n'est ce que pas?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bode Swiller, Direct Travel commissioned it according to PSG.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The study found that skiers who wear helmets experience at least two thirds less g-force when hitting a tree at 10, 20 or 30kph than those without. |
How the hell does that work snowHeads scientists? |
As written it doesn't!
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They omit to point out that if you hit a tree with your head at 30km/h you will die, helmet or not.
The MMR debacle shows how journalists' lack of scientific education can kill children.
They could equally well run the same "news" story about cars. How many lives would have been saved this week alone if only those stupid car drivers wore helmets when driving? You'd probably save more snowsports lives if the people wore their helmets whilst driving to the airport (the data for the SIA is public, what I don't have is the average drive distance for people going on snow holidays...).
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Bode Swiller, Direct Travel commissioned it according to PSG. |
Ok, hopefully they'll publish it so we can mass debate it. (fnar fnar)
From that short clip though, I can tell I'm not going to be over impressed. How realistic is it to ski up to a tree at 20 km/h and give it a big hug? IMV not a real world scenario. If you lose control and you're heading for the trees your impact almost certainly won't be forehead first, more likely feet first or shoulder first. Trees should wear helmets really.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A better testing rig might be to send a dummy on rollers up a corkscrew ramp that throws them out to the side against a hard object, allowing the head to impact at various glancing angles.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| philwig wrote: |
| They omit to point out that if you hit a tree with your head at 30km/h you will die, helmet or not. |
Does a wig help?
Sorry. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Was it just me or did anybody else laugh when the dummy hit the ground following the high speed tree hug?
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No, I didn't laugh, I called the dummy ski patrol
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You know it makes sense.
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Having watched my 10 year old try and ski under a metal trail sign in Canada last year at speed(unsuccessfully copying her instructor) and seeing the damage to her helmet rather than her head, I'm a big fan of helmets. Stupidity however, there is no cure for. I think she learnt a valuable lesson about not skiing like an idiot  My nerves however, may never recover from seeing her approach the sign and just knowing what was going to happen
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| laundryman wrote: |
| Does a wig help? |
no, but I hear northern trees wear twigs.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| halfhand wrote: |
| Was it just me or did anybody else laugh when the dummy hit the ground following the high speed tree hug? |
I laughed nearly all the way through so... yes.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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While I agree with your overall arguement of such helmet "test" being useless, I can't agree with this bit:
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| From that short clip though, I can tell I'm not going to be over impressed. How realistic is it to ski up to a tree at 20 km/h and give it a big hug? IMV not a real world scenario. If you lose control and you're heading for the trees your impact almost certainly won't be forehead first, more likely feet first or shoulder first. Trees should wear helmets really. |
If you have the time to put your feet first, you probably have time to avoid hitting the tree entirely!
No, most "tree hugger" had already fallen quite close to the tree and sliding towards it at relattively high speed. If your skis are still attached, it's quite difficult to bring your feet around at all. (been there, tried & fail that) Which part of your body end up contacting the tree is often entirely random. (mine was the side of the body, broke some ribs)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| abc wrote: |
| If you have the time to put your feet first, you probably have time to avoid hitting the tree entirely! |
Not so, the kind of accidents I see are where skier loses control by going in the back seat, and they slide feet-first towards whatever obstacle they collide with. Sometimes they spin around a bit too but essentially they are horizontal at impact.
The full-on tree hug most likely to happen while you are in the trees attempting to ski the white bits between them. But still, I would argue that it's your shoulder that will soak up the initial thump.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Predictions:
- US ski resorts will end up padding all trees (what's the difference between a tree and a lift tower in a controlled ski area?)
- Insurance companies will continue using helmets as a useful publicity tool, in association with the British Association of Dummies
- Skiers will continue to avoid ski instruction and other methods of dramatically reducing the incidence of falls/collisions
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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- 'Helmet thread apps' and 'helmet threads' will be recorded as a driving force in the British economy
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| US ski resorts will end up padding all trees |
Would that be a fir coat?
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All this is why squirrels took up water skiing long long ago:
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| laundryman wrote: |
| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| US ski resorts will end up padding all trees |
Would that be a fir coat? |
That should spruce them up.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| If you have the time to put your feet first, you probably have time to avoid hitting the tree entirely! |
Not so, the kind of accidents I see are where skier loses control by going in the back seat, and they slide feet-first towards whatever obstacle they collide with. Sometimes they spin around a bit too but essentially they are horizontal at impact. |
What I've witnessed was the skier fell just like you described, hit the tree feet first (ski first), got spun around and hit the next tree with some random body parts.
| Quote: |
| The full-on tree hug most likely to happen while you are in the trees attempting to ski the white bits between them. But still, I would argue that it's your shoulder that will soak up the initial thump. |
I've never seen anyone hitting a tree while still upright. So can't say if they actually have enough body control to dictate which part of their body contact the tree.
Overall, I would argue most skier will choose a trajectory that would avoid hitting a tree. They only end up hitting it AFTER they fail to follow their intended path. At that point, they're quite likely be off-balance and not in the best position to contoll HOW they contact the tree.
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laundryman, geepee, some treemendous playing of words there....
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FAQ
