 Poster: A snowHead
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laundryman,
I do think Switzerland paid a price a few years ago for the perception that it was expensive..of course, some places still are, imv.. but generally I feel that some of the Swiss resorts I have been to in the last few years are quite happy to have redefined their client base..and that now they tend to price to get people to the resort and then worry about getting them to re-visit.
I have used the term French mega resorts but really you can extend it to quite a few non-French places as well... Places I would mostly try and avoid at all but low season times are places with masses of mileage, masses of beds and big lift systems.
Once up and away on the lifts you can generally avoid a few bottlenecks but ski back to the hubs and you get the masses which I can do without....
It will be interesting to see whether we have this perception of prices throughout the alpes next year and therefore the same conversation..
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Anyway, enough about all this, have you seen how much the sea bass is in La Plagne... 
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laundryman, We have a different perception of the sentiments expressed  My only points are:-
a) I've NEVER seen some of the prices quoted here .. and where I live is (allegedly) as expensive as any ski resort
b) As Brits, the real issue is exchange rates
c) We must have all been walking around with our eyes closed when we were allowed to live off endless unrepayable plastic.
As an aside -- having been to Austria for the first time this year --- 60-80% of French ski resort prices as a generalisation .. no explanation!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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HH, about €13 - €20 generally as a plat principal .. less as part of the Menu du Jour ! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Prices charged are a function of a) what your overheads are; b) what your customer is prepared to pay; and c) how much profit you need in order to make your venture seem worthwhile. Prices may change according to whether you can maintain (c) in the face of changes in (b) by messing about with (a). Alternatively you might change the value for (c) or just call it quits and do something else.
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Lizzard, Prices should have nothing to do with 'costs' .. otherwise I'd just be able to pay everyone more .. a non-sequitur
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Agenterre, so if I buy a banana for a euro and sell it to you for 75c I can nonetheless make a profit? Amazing. You are Fred Goodwin and I claim my £5. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w,  .. let me write it again .. pricing has nothing to do with costs incurred ... pricing is about what people are prepared to pay for your goods/services ... contribution/margin/profit (or loss) is the difference between them ( which everyone knows) .. I wish everything I'd ever sold was on a cost + basis .. life would be so easy ( government numpty contracts anyone ? )
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Agenterre, what's wrong about it? Under those circumstances I close my business and go off to do something else, because I can't compete and I'm not going to hang around and go bust. Your assertion that overhead equates purely to staff cost is incorrect - it also involves fixed charges like rent and loan repayments which are unique to me and are presumably different for the chap next door charging 90c a banana. You can't possibly be suggesting that businesses should fix their prices without any regard for what stuff costs them in the first place, surely?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
pricing is about what people are prepared to pay for your goods/services
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but in a competitive market, if your costs are high (through bad luck or bad management) then you are not going to be able to charge a price that people will be prepared to pay. Hence the fanatical and constant downward pressure on costs in firms like Tesco. You might not have a "costs plus" contract, but in making a bid for a fixed price contract you surely have to take your costs into account?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Lizzard, Yes .. I know all that .. I was just oversimplifying for someone who claimed prices should be, in part, upon 'overhead costs' ...
and yes, building a pricing model based upon your costs incurred is stupidity. Building a profit model with no regard to costs is even dafter .. building a business with no regard to cash flow is bankruptcy ..
BTW - I accept that overheads are one of a myriad of excuses used for 'prices' but have no reality in the real world of 'pricing'.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
I was just oversimplifying for someone who claimed prices should be, in part, upon 'overhead costs'
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And they aren't?
If it costs me x per customer to provide the service, I need to charge a minimum of x per customer (on average) in order not to starve on the streets. Ideally I would like to charge x+y, where y=whatever I can get away with.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, No .. in making that bid you are effectively looking at the margins/contributions etc. from the contract along with loads of other factors .. if you only ever base your price upon your costs you will be stuffed.
I dont know Tesco .. but they are not alone in continually striving to drive down costs ( shareholder's profit) .. but sure as eggs are eggs the prices they charge for line items have little to do with the price they pay for them .. if they cant make a contribution from a product line it will either be a loss-leader ( the salesman's great excuse and a silly idea imo), replace it with one from another supplier, or drop the product. They will also be using models based upon optimising contribution per shelf inch etc ....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Quote: |
I was just oversimplifying for someone who claimed prices should be, in part, upon 'overhead costs'
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And they aren't?
If it costs me x per customer to provide the service, I need to charge a minimum of x per customer (on average) in order not to starve on the streets. Ideally I would like to charge x+y, where y=whatever I can get away with. |
I give up ... that is profit .. not pricing .... and you're right it is X+Y above that you are calculating --- all the time --- but the price you can / should charge has NOTHING to do with X. I have a headache , and we're only on page 1 of "Running a Simple Business"
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Agenterre, If it's any consolation, I am with you.
pam w, Lizzard, - he's right (but if his model doesn't convince you then my support won't change yoor mind )
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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sorry, got a bit lost, where can I get the cheapest banana?
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I looked in Plagne centre for the price of Goldfish, maybe I should look in Les Arcs for Banannas
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Boredsurfing, please keep us updated on your findings 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Even before the exchange rate dramas (and even the euro) France has always been expensive. In recent years everyone I know who has been has self catered. My food and drink bill for 8 days in Les Arcs in Jan was 45 euros doing this. I had to since ski pass plus ski hire was already £350. Next year I'm going to Austria.
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| Quote: |
that is profit .. not pricing .... and you're right it is X+Y above that you are calculating --- all the time --- but the price you can / should charge has NOTHING to do with X
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So explain. I can't see that my costs are irrelevant to the prices I should charge. I don't see how prices and profit are so completely unrelated either.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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HH, I never trust women who buy bananas . . .
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Lizzard because you can only ever sell anything for what someone will pay for it in a free market. There are lots if considerations in that (demand, competition, marketing, brand etc. etc. ) pricing decision but what it costs you shouldn't be one of them -- of course it is important to the profit or loss you make.
If you take our silly banana stall .. you are better off selling them at less than cost if your only other option is to let the yellow bleeders perish .. a small loss is better than a big one .. and at least you'll have some cash in your pocket to buy some more stock again the next day.
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| Agenterre wrote: |
If you take our silly banana stall .. you are better off selling them at less than cost if your only other option is to let the yellow bleeders perish .. a small loss is better than a big one .. and at least you'll have some cash in your pocket to buy some more stock again the next day. |
I'm intrigued, so if you have sold your first days stock at less than cost (because its better than not selling anything at all) surely the next day you won't be able to buy as much stock on day two because you have made a small loss.
What then happens on day three if you had to sell them for less than cost again on day two? You may still have some cash in your back pocket but not as much as you had at close of business on Monday.
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You know it makes sense.
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jezzy, aargghhh!!
Of course you are right .. the discussion is about 'pricing' and was just an example, Im not suggesting going into any particular business , nor selling things continuously at a loss, nor whether you're better off setting up an orange stall, nor suggesting that you could continuously trade just because you can ..
are you all trying to wind me up ? If so .. congratulations!
My next post in this thread will cost £1800 .. that is more than my computer cost in the event noone wants to pay me then I wont post and Ill be much better off financially.
QED .. Lizzard is correct.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Agenterre wrote: |
are you all trying to wind me up ? If so .. congratulations! |
Yes, I am in an evil mood this morning!!! 
If it is any consolation I have just wound up a chalet manager too (it was his own fault though)
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Poster: A snowHead
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The problem is, people seem to accept paying a premium for certain resorts. Not just the big French resorts but places like Verbier, St Anton, Ischgl, Cortina all cost significantly more to stay at, therefore local establishments charge more for their services too. If people were really bothered about paying these premiums, they'd stop visiting expensive resorts and prices would have to level out. I find it extremely strange that a week's ski holiday in Kitzbuhel for example can cost up to 50% less than Ischgl...
For this reason, people on a budget are limited in their choice of resort while the rich hoorays splash their fat wallets around in resorts people like me can only dream about. It's inequality on a grand scale...
The WTSS guide gives resorts a budget grading of 1 to 6. In Austria, resorts like Ski Welt, Mayrhofen & Kitzbuhel score 3, Ischgl, Obergurgl, Obertauern and St Anton score 5, Lech scores 6! In France they pretty much all score 4 or 5 with the exception of Courchevel, Méribel, Tignes and Val D'Isère that score 6. There's a few; Serre Che, Montgenèvre, Flaine, Chatel, Les Contamines, Les Sybelles that score 3. In Italy they pretty much all score 2 or 3 with the exception of Cortina (5) and Switzerland is a real mixed bag from Wengen (3) to Verbier & St Moritz at 6...
It all seems rather unfair to me. Do you really get a 50% better holiday experience staying in a 3 star hotel in Val D'Isère as opposed to Serre Che...?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| It all seems rather unfair to me. Do you really get a 50% better holiday experience staying in a 3 star hotel in Val D'Isère as opposed to Serre Che...? |
No, probably not. Which is why you should rejoice that a small number of resorts are able to charge premium prices for people who are prepared to pay them. It means that there are other resorts who have to fight for your custom by keeping their prices competitive.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, indeed but for some strange reason I hanker after resorts like Verbier and Ischgl...
Back in 2000, in honour of the millennium, I cleared out my savings account and went to a 'luxury' chalet in VDI. The week's holiday cost me the best part of £1200 and since I became a homeowner a year later, it's not an experience I've ever been able to repeat...
However, in fairness I have probably enjoyed myself more on my £700 holidays since then to Passo Tonale, Kitzbuhel and Courmayeur...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
rob@rar, indeed but for some strange reason I hanker after resorts like Verbier and Ischgl...
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I've stayed at budget accommodation in some of the big French resorts and had lovely holidays, without spending the kind of money that it's easy to spend in those places. I suppose it depends what your priorities are - upscale accommodation, fine food and wines, expensive lift pass, and premium instruction in a 'glitzy' resort are never going to be cheap because the market will sustain high prices. But it's fairly easy to reduce all of those costs if you want.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, fair enough. I've not managed to find affordable accommodation via a TO in any of the prestige resorts, but I daresay it's possible via the DIY route. I don't have expensive tastes, but I'm definitely hotel only, not self-catering...
It does seem as though it's not just accommodation that tends to be more expensive in these resorts. Equipment hire, bars, mountain huts, etc. all seem to charge a premium...
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Agenterre, seems to me I was right in the first place then, and you are just being too complicated. Naturally I would sell my bananas at a small loss in preference to a big one, but I wouldn't base my pricing policy at the outset on the premise that I'd have to do so.
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people on a budget are limited in their choice of resort while the rich hoorays splash their fat wallets around in resorts people like me can only dream about. It's inequality on a grand scale...
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Havning been to both Val d'ISere and Courchevel, I have to say that they really didn't strike me as the stuff that dreams are made of. Full of irritating rich hoorays, for a start. And I'm not sure the burning issue of inequality in access to ski resorts is likely move the masses to revolution any time soon.
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Agenterre, thanks for your reply, which I've only just spotted. 
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Agenterre, having read the following contributions, I agree completely with you on the pricing/costs/cashflow stuff. It's served me well enough for 23 years!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FAQ
