 Poster: A snowHead
|
I got it! That was the sound of it going over someone else's head 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| On the rocks wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| On the rocks wrote: |
| @Gerry, Anyway, about a strategy to bring the club up to date and attract new members to ski or snowboard together with or without a leader / rep in the context of Brexit and French etc regulations? |
Go to the Facebook group and chat about it there. |
I just looked at the current FB group. There’s far more engagement by current and past Scgb members discussing the issues here on Snowheads |
There's no proper debate here, it's just a stream of libelous comment from people hiding behind pseudonyms.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@Gerry, there is lots of debate here and some insulting comment, possibly even libellous, often initiated by your good self. For example, you have not yet offered any evidence to justify calling someone a bully and I noticed you recently called someone else a tw@* , subsequently editing the insult. I agree with @ontherocks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@Jehu, he was also extremely rude to the staff. I also got fed up with his legal pronouncements, which where nearly always flawed. All the tactics he used to get people to agree with him had a bullying undertone to them. You tell him no in an email, then you get a stream of texts and WhatsApp messages trying to pressure you into agreeing. Then you get the phone calls. I've never known anyone who is so totally lacking in empathy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Gerry wrote: |
| @philwig, no threats of violence from me, ever. My views on race are also very liberal, as in I think people should be treated equally, regardless of ethnicity. Same with class, everyone should be treated equally. |
Hmmmm 'treated equally' you say. What about a certain D Goldsmith? Why is he discriminated against? Because, for the avoidance of doubt and whether you like him or not, it is discrimination.
| Gerry wrote: |
Well, he has many other issues as well. For example, if he doesn’t get his own way he will refuse to move on. Everyone else will assume an issue has been decided (for now, with a review later) but by the morning everyone will get a two thousand word email, covering all the same ground and again insisting that everyone else is wrong.
He once phoned me at 21:30 and I just couldn’t get him off the phone until about 23:00. He has a gift for sucking the life force out of you.
In meetings he will constantly interrupt and talk over people. Even when people are telling him to stop talking he just carries on. I’ve never experienced anything like it. |
It may be very tiring that kind of behaviour but still isn't being a 'bully', it's more at the upper end of the PITA scale. You could have put the phone down, you could have replied to the 2000 word emails "this has already been discussed and decided upon. End."
| Gerry wrote: |
| Pisteoff is an old mate |
old mates don't tend to bully their old mates now do they?
| On the rocks wrote: |
| @Gerry, Anyway, about a strategy to bring the club up to date and attract new members to ski or snowboard together with or without a leader / rep in the context of Brexit and French etc regulations? |
There isn't one. If there was it would have been unveiled by now. Unless Social Reps and overpriced ski trips are the strategy. God help 'em. The run in to the new season starts in a few weeks basically. Where's the activity?
| Gerry wrote: |
| There's no proper debate here, it's just a stream of libelous comment from people hiding behind pseudonyms. |
I'm not sure you understand the difference between libel and opinion or how high the bar is to prove libel. There is fairly intelligent healthy debate here and more so than I have ever seen on the old Ski Club chat room or various Facebook groups.
| Gerry wrote: |
| I've never known anyone who is so totally lacking in empathy. |
Are you saying he's a psychopath? That's a bit of a step up from old mate or bully eh?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
What's the bad behavior of a dying club has to do with the new "club blue sky"?
Oh right, try not to repeat the same path! Even stronger justification not to bother with the existing baggage... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@abc,
| Quote: |
What's the bad behavior of a dying club has to do with the new "club blue sky"?
|
+1
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yep there's a lesson here in whatever club you form don't let too many people like @gerry get to positions of power. Even as he thinks he defends his club from rumours or untruths he casts it in a further bad light and even with a platform to say positive and persuasive things about the future he is unable to. Perhaps it's just a stage of grief he's going through.
If the answer to members and potential asking "tell us clearly and unabiguously including legally what the deal is with the repping framework?" is "look at a mishmash of threads on facebook" then that's clearly an organisation that even with the benefit of 18 months thinking time doesn't know what it is doing. It ought to be memorised by every rep and certainly every member of council. Gambrill was unconvincing but at least he had the excuse of being a powerless newbie.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@Dave of the Marmottes, as if I’m going to announce policies in here, to you and your chums.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Pruman wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| @philwig, no threats of violence from me, ever. My views on race are also very liberal, as in I think people should be treated equally, regardless of ethnicity. Same with class, everyone should be treated equally. |
Hmmmm 'treated equally' you say. What about a certain D Goldsmith? Why is he discriminated against? Because, for the avoidance of doubt and whether you like him or not, it is discrimination.
| Gerry wrote: |
Well, he has many other issues as well. For example, if he doesn’t get his own way he will refuse to move on. Everyone else will assume an issue has been decided (for now, with a review later) but by the morning everyone will get a two thousand word email, covering all the same ground and again insisting that everyone else is wrong.
He once phoned me at 21:30 and I just couldn’t get him off the phone until about 23:00. He has a gift for sucking the life force out of you.
In meetings he will constantly interrupt and talk over people. Even when people are telling him to stop talking he just carries on. I’ve never experienced anything like it. |
It may be very tiring that kind of behaviour but still isn't being a 'bully', it's more at the upper end of the PITA scale. You could have put the phone down, you could have replied to the 2000 word emails "this has already been discussed and decided upon. End."
| Gerry wrote: |
| Pisteoff is an old mate |
old mates don't tend to bully their old mates now do they?
| On the rocks wrote: |
| @Gerry, Anyway, about a strategy to bring the club up to date and attract new members to ski or snowboard together with or without a leader / rep in the context of Brexit and French etc regulations? |
There isn't one. If there was it would have been unveiled by now. Unless Social Reps and overpriced ski trips are the strategy. God help 'em. The run in to the new season starts in a few weeks basically. Where's the activity?
| Gerry wrote: |
| There's no proper debate here, it's just a stream of libelous comment from people hiding behind pseudonyms. |
I'm not sure you understand the difference between libel and opinion or how high the bar is to prove libel. There is fairly intelligent healthy debate here and more so than I have ever seen on the old Ski Club chat room or various Facebook groups.
| Gerry wrote: |
| I've never known anyone who is so totally lacking in empathy. |
Are you saying he's a psychopath? That's a bit of a step up from old mate or bully eh? |
Goldsmith made ridiculously untrue allegations and got his membership withdraw as a result. He also made ridiculously untrue allegations about the owner of snowHeads and is now only allowed to make one post every 24hrs.
Some people found pisteoff to be rather bullying in style. I’m sure they would be delighted to hear from you that it was all their fault and that they weren’t actually being manipulated and bullied at all. Excellent bit of victim blaming by you.
Psychopath? Don’t be stupid!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@PeakyB,
| Quote: |
@abc,
Quote:
What's the bad behavior of a dying club has to do with the new "club blue sky"?
|
+1 also
@Gerry I disagree with about half of what you say, and find some of your comments offensive and very unhelpful. However I have always had a liking for you, and enjoyed the fact that you would engage, speak up and are different to the mould many in SCGB fit into. You stood beside me as we championed volunteer leading and took on the might of a secretive and foolish Council which was destroying 'our club'. Please don't diminish your voice, Club and Council any more with your obsession with personal attacks.
If SCGB can build back better that's great, it would of course mean an inclusive and welcoming club, open to new ideas and the challenge of a changed world. Your comments here while appalling do illustrate the need for something that abandons the baggage in SCGB Council, politics and the "gentlemen's club" posh white character - hence club blue sky and this thread. It may be too early for that - however interesting to explore? If you don't want to explore that, or explain how SCGB can deliver on the need why are you posting here?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Gerry wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, as if I’m going to announce policies in here, to you and your chums. |
Your choice - SGCB have in the past been happy to try to spam here because there are eyeballs directed here via google. Someone trying to unpick what exactly your rep service now is isn't going to be over enlightened by your website so one might suspect potential members might again be googling and find your compelling lack of articulation and evasiveness here.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Never been a member of SCGB and at the moment very unlikely ever to be one. But these are things that could tempt me.
1. Drop the "Ski" from your name. Seriously as a boarder the quickest way to alienate me is for your name to tell me I'm not welcome.
2. Get out of London. It's sucking up huges amounts of cash and only adds to the Tweed Jacket/Sloane Ranger image. Base yourself nearer to where your (potential) members are ... Chill is almost empty so I'm sure there is some potential office space available at an attractive rate.
3. Get out into the community. Get you UK reps out to the local slopes on a regular and scheduled basis. e.g. your north west rep would be in Chill on the first Saturday of the month, next week , Rossendale, week after that in Kendal etc
4. Expanding on the hut idea already mentioned. Have small huts (a room in a farm building) in key resorts where members can drop in grab a free coffee/tea, eat their lunch. Maybe have some servicing equipment in there. Possibly run some (charged) sessions in an evening where a local tech will come in and talk about service tips and tricks before sorting people's gear ... "Tune Up Tuesdays"
5. Stop trying to be a tour operator. Maybe one or two big club events... Preseason gear test in Tignes, a WC race etc
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
I'm sure this argument is very interesting to the participants but could some mod move it to apres, I can't see what place it has on The Piste. It is this kind of arguing that has ruined snowheads for many.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@davidof,
| Quote: |
It is this kind of arguing that has ruined snowheads for many.
|
This
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| davidof wrote: |
| I'm sure this argument is very interesting to the participants but could some mod move it to apres, I can't see what place it has on The Piste. It is this kind of arguing that has ruined snowheads for many. |
If this minor sideshow ruins snowheads for people in the silly season of a year in which virtually no-one has skied and in which there are valid questions asked of what people might want out of some sort of ski club, then what doesn't? Even if it's just a platform for a SCGB director to shoot himself in the foot at least there is some amusement in that.
It should stay in The Piste so it remains searchable and certain individuals with official "roles" in skiing are accountable for their BS/total accuracy and omnipotence. I'd agree that a lot of the @gerry ranting and baiting should probably be in the ongoing SCGB thread but as he consciously seems to avoid that....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| davidof wrote: |
| I'm sure this argument is very interesting to the participants but could some mod move it to apres, I can't see what place it has on The Piste. It is this kind of arguing that has ruined snowheads for many. |
Moving it to apres won't stop the argument. So I can't see it helps in any way.
I didn't open the thread till it reached page 3 or 4. I'm sure plenty of people haven't looked in here at all. So I don't see how it would ruin anything in snowheads (except the chance of SCGB recruiting effort  ).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Well they're throwing me out of SCGB - I guess they really don't want fresh thinking, so I'm looking for a new home. Its great to be able to make the most of almost a club Snowheads ... although I still think it would be great to be able to go to a resort, find like minded and hopefully someone who knows the resort and find things I wouldn't have found by myself. That was a fantastic thing (especially off piste) when it existed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@pisteoff, Sorry to hear that. I guess your ideas didn't fit in with the old school tie freeloaders approach. At least you've got something in common with Mr Goldsmith now ....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| pisteoff wrote: |
| Well they're throwing me out of SCGB - I guess they really don't want fresh thinking, so I'm looking for a new home. |
I think you'll find snowHeads has a lot to offer enthusiastic skiers and boarders, I believe you've already been on a sHs bash and seen how it works (rather well).  You've obviously previously invested a fair amount of your time in the SCGB (I believe you were on council?) but it seems they've taken the decision that they no longer appreciate or want your input.
I'm an ex SCGB member myself who made use of and enjoyed the ski repping service on several occasions in the 1980s and 1990s, but due to my changed skiing circumstances (mainly joining snowHeads, going on their bashes and joining the DHO in Wengen) I found I no longer needed the rep service. However I'll be watching the SCGB's future fortunes with interest.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| pisteoff wrote: |
| Well they're throwing me out of SCGB - I guess they really don't want fresh thinking, so I'm looking for a new home. |
I think you'll find snowHeads has a lot to offer enthusiastic skiers and boarders. |
And better value for the membership fee
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| eblunt wrote: |
| @pisteoff, Sorry to hear that. I guess your ideas didn't fit in with the old school tie freeloaders approach. At least you've got something in common with Mr Goldsmith now .... |
Nothing to do with Tom Jarman having new, imaginative ideas - he didn’t have any. It was actually all to do with Tom Jarman wanting to liquidate Winter Arrangements Ltd as a way of getting out of a rental agreement for free. The Ski Club has a history of honouring its obligations going back to 1903. Council rejected the idea but Jarman embarked on a bitter email campaign attacking the Chair of the Club.
This is how Jarman operated whilst on Council, by simply being a bully.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@Hamilton Academical, But surely that is history and the current expulsion is purely due to being admin for his FB group? In which case the expulsion seems draconian.
SCGB’s attempt to shut down all discussion of the clubs future, much of which is well meaning and constructive from people who want the club to adapt and survive is totally at odds with the organisation’s wish to portray itself as club.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| On the rocks wrote: |
@Hamilton Academical, But surely that is history and the current expulsion is purely due to being admin for his FB group? In which case the expulsion seems draconian.
SCGB’s attempt to shut down all discussion of the clubs future, much of which is well meaning and constructive from people who want the club to adapt and survive is totally at odds with the organisation’s wish to portray itself as club. |
Well, there's a root cause to everything. Jarman had the chance to share admin rights with a Council member and that would have put an end to the matter. In fact, he said he would do that, but talk is cheap, actions speak louder that mere words and he never did it.
A poll of group members was taken and the overwhelming majority wanted him to either share admin rights or hand the group back to the Club. Of course Jarman removed the poll because it wasn't generating the result he wanted. He also banned some Council members from the group and then moaned that Council weren't engaging with the group. He has a certain style reminiscent of Mr Putin.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
I have repeatedly offered co-admin rights, but this was rejected repeatedly as insufficient, I think under the influence of the charming Gerry. Some on Council wanted to throw me off the group and control the dialogue, banning others G wanted to attack.
The 'history' Gerry claims above is of course a nonsense. If we had openness in Council and those willing to stand up for good governance we would know the true story and could begin to deal with the underlying issues in the Club and hope to rebuild, rather than the spiral of decline. I am not the only member that notices when Council yet again paints a misleading rosy picture and blames 'the last lot' or 'outside events' for continuing decline, rather than embrace the challenge of rebuilding. For petes sake they should be working with me and all those that would support, not attacking them!
That I think is the core difference in approach which I advocated: openness and accountability, taking responsibility and doing something about it, versus hiding issues, blaming others and pretending things are better than they are. Its a bad sign when the interim Chairman eg refuses my offer to sit on the audit committee and serve as interim treasurer when Angus was moved to interim GM (I was amply qualified) -presumably because he wanted to control things without oversight. Sure enough 18 months on and we are back with Council painting a misleading picture to members and being scared of anyone who can challenge this. I am no longer interested in Club politics, its just too broken, so tend to say little but still some on Council want me out of the way. Better to focus on the real issues the Club faces I say, and build a supporter base so the club does not continue on its depressing spiral of decline. Its a long way from here to a once again welcoming and growing club. Given no change in behaviour I suspect better to just shrug shoulders and move on, SCGB cannot survive and serve members behaving like this
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Quote: |
build a supporter base so the club does not continue on its depressing spiral of decline.
|
Why? Sometimes things wither and die, and the SCGB shows every sign of doing just that. If it didn't exist, there'd be no reason to invent it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If the Club dies, I wonder whether Gerry will stay on here to torment us all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| pisteoff wrote: |
| I have repeatedly offered co-admin rights, but this was rejected repeatedly as insufficient, I think under the influence of the charming Gerry. |
I didn't want you kicked out.
You were offered the Chair of the audit committee in early 2020 but turned it down. In fact you didn't seem to want to join any committee, preferring to just snipe at everyone from the sidelines. Personally, I think you were trying to become Chairman but made a terrible miscalculation by thinking you could rely on the unconditional support of certain people.
Anyway, here you are, basically fecked as far as the Ski Club is concerned, forced to hang around here and try and get your revenge in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
build a supporter base so the club does not continue on its depressing spiral of decline.
|
Why? Sometimes things wither and die, and the SCGB shows every sign of doing just that. If it didn't exist, there'd be no reason to invent it. |
That I think is a very fair point, however it has made an enormous difference to my enjoyment of skiing over many years - and many others. My view is there remains a role and opportunity for a member-meet-member club, focussed on in resort group skiing and events / discounts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
So what’s the most effective way to engage CLUB members in determining a future for the club that can thrive?
1. Chat on Snowheads forum?
2. A lightly moderated FB group?
3. Chat forum on SCGB website accessible to members only?
4. Letters to the club?
5. Leave it to the Council or Reps as they know what’s best?
6. No need as everything’s fine?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| On the rocks wrote: |
So what’s the most effective way to engage CLUB members in determining a future for the club that can thrive?
1. Chat on Snowheads forum?
2. A lightly moderated FB group?
3. Chat forum on SCGB website accessible to members only?
4. Letters to the club?
5. Leave it to the Council or Reps as they know what’s best?
6. No need as everything’s fine? |
For those that think SCGB can and should thrive (I'm one) that is a great question.
My slight difference of view is that I think people close to membership (eg those that are thinking of leaving or have just left) are if anything more important to engage with, they represent views which will, if effectively dealt with, make the difference. A thriving club welcomes people in, and deals with those that would otherwise leave.
What I have found is that Facebook is not a great place for this kind of engagement. I've found the format of Snowheads much better, and also there are many around here who have very useful input. And much of the 'comment from the sidelines' is also helpful, if read that way.
3-6 on your list don't fly in my view
However I am increasingly inclined to agree with those here that think this is possibly amusing to watch, but of no relevance to those that want good group skiing etc. SCGB is making itself increasingly irrelevant by being not just unreasonable/unwelcoming, but frankly unpleasant unless you conform to a model. In my case I'm banned for independence of thought or whatever, so I guess that's a fortunate view to have.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
All I use is the excellent SCGB insurance and the holidays, which are successful as far as I know (they even absorbed a separately successful holiday company - Freshtracks). A ski holiday company which teams up people who ski at the same standard is quite unusual.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| snowball wrote: |
| A ski holiday company which teams up people who ski at the same standard is quite unusual. |
True, good point.
Of course it's also worth noting that there's so many people on a typical sHs bash that there's a wide range of abilities from newbie through to advanced, so pretty easy at the start of the day to join up with other sHs of comparable ability.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
…
pretty easy at the start of the day to join up with other sHs of comparable ability to consume cake
|
FIFY
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@AL9000, that as well!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
To be fair though @Alastair Pink, they're very different models.
The Freshtracks model seems rather more prescriptive, which will suit a different kind of person to the 'beautiful anarchy...as once described by @achiles ' of a snowHeads bash
@snowball, as I understand (although I'm happy to be corrected), Freshtracks was originally the clientele of the SCGB holidays who were, in effect, being bought back into the fold along with the owner of the company.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@admin, or the same person who enjoys both sorts of skiing holiday
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
@admin, if a group is paying for a guide or instructor then obviously it’s best if people are of a similar standard. That’s about a prescriptive as it gets.
Freshtracks was a company started up by a former employee of the Ski Club. Long story short, it floundered and the Ski Club bought it. The truth about why they bought a floundering company and installed its owner as their CEO I’ll leave for another day. The Ski Club were running holidays long before the existence of Freshtracks and were doing so successfully during the time Freshtracks was going down the pan.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
