 Poster: A snowHead
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Austria is something like 212 / 100,000 over 7 days. Uk is now under 60. Although I expect uk to go up with the easing. Austria needs to buck up it's ideas if they want tourists
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Matrix, +1
We are due to go to Austria for 2 weeks end August, driving - looking very touch and go atm. Hopefully mainland Europe gets its act together next 2-3 months and smells the coffee, currently they are going backwards. Our NHS has been magnificent, just hope the people behave over the next months as we go through spring into summer....that’s by no means assured.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We will go up. Without a 100% vaccinated adult population I can't see how "freedoms" in April, May and June will not result in increased cases. The point will be in hospitalisations and deaths. I think our prolonged winter lockdown however puts us significantly out of sync with others on "waves" which will make inter country movements tricky.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, Getting COVID post vaccination means you don't die or require medical intervention, it just becomes another (unpleasant) Flu. Time then to man up and get on with things. So numbers actually become irrelevant. #getthevaccinebeatthevirus
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, Interestingly while we are out of step with most European countries in terms of timing of "waves", Spain's case rates seem to have almost exactly mirrored the UK - they are seeing reducing rates still after a surge in Jan/Feb - so maybe that is the most likely open destination for summer holidays.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, lots of myths floating around as usual. The restrictions in the UK have been broadly similar to elsewhere in Europe, possibly less strict, no curfews or FFP2 masks there. The shops here opened for a couple of days last week and are now shut again, the beer garden opening has been postponed. The restrictions have been more seriously enforced than in the UK, an article in the paper this morning saying €2,000,000 of corona related fines have been handed out in Munich alone (I know Austria has been similar). Until now the course of infections has been about the same as the UK with a peak around Christmas / New Year and then dropping, the recent increase is a result of the "UK" variant (not convinced it originated there but that's irrelevant now) becoming widespread. It is clear the vaccination programme works, the Germans now realise this and are desperately trying to catch up (I believe Austria is similar). You dont need 100% vaccine coverage for it to work, without getting into irrelevant arguments the figure is going to be somewhere around 60% - 90%, from what I can see the UK is pretty much there with the over 50s (there is plenty of academic literature around on all this if you want to look). There will always be some academic or other saying "what about if...." but I think better to be optimistic.
I am not particularly optimistic that non EU citizens are going to be allowed into the EU come the summer (or that the UK will allow outbound leisure travel). There will be vaccine passports (Austria amongst others is very keen) but not sure all countries want them. I have a bad feeling that the compromise could well be OK for EU citizens not for non EU citizens, that would mean the Germans & Dutch etc back in the Tirol and most tourism in the Mediterranean countries but no help to the Brits.
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@munich_irish,
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I am not particularly optimistic that non EU citizens are going to be allowed into the EU come the summer (or that the UK will allow outbound leisure travel). There will be vaccine passports (Austria amongst others is very keen) but not sure all countries want them. I have a bad feeling that the compromise could well be OK for EU citizens not for non EU citizens, that would mean the Germans & Dutch etc back in the Tirol and most tourism in the Mediterranean countries but no help to the Brits.
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I think that is very likely scenario for much of Europe, the exception I think may be Spain and Greece, both of whom have a high dependence on UK tourism - I think they will do everything in their power to let us in.
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France, Spain, Italy and Greece, and to a lesser extent Portugal, would be significantly impacted if UK visitors were not allowed to enter. The challenge though is that we would not just be entering Spain - we'd be entering the Schengen area, and could then travel anywhere else within the area without much in the way of restrictions unless the border posts are put back up temporarily. Some of that has already happened of course, but if things open up and EU citizens are allowed to travel then stopping all traffic to turn back the ~5% of it which has UK visitors is unworkable. Schengen requires the controls to be at the edges, and that could be a contentious policy decision if Germany, Poland Denmark, etc block tourism and it impacts primarily in economic terms on the southern countries.
Based on current vaccination rates, it may be safer to allow British visitors into Spain than to allow Germans, Dutch, etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@RobinS, maybe. Problem is that the Commission is focused on getting Schengen operating again. Not really an issue for Cyprus, Malta or, to some extent, Greece. If Spain lets in Brits when most others say no that is a problem. I agree Spain etc will be very keen on letting the Brits in but if the choice is between the Brits and the Germans, Scandinavians, Dutch, Irish etc the decision would be clear. I suspect there are some very difficult discussions to come. Hopefully it will not come to this.
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@munich_irish, If France didn't want us, but Spain let us in I don't think it would be too difficult for them - very few people would ever want to fly to Spain, then drive to France from there. Personally I want to be able transit France to drive to Spain this autumn, the same as we did last year, but I think that is less likely than Brits just being allowed to fly direct to Spain.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I predict Brits will travelling to Europe without much in the way restrictions by July and then with increasing rates we will be blocked out by end of august and most of Europe will be back in lockdown.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sat 20-03-21 15:52; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Reason being exactly what @ousekjarr has said. Is it very likely that British infection rates will be lower than Europe and I do not think EU will be able to stop Spain and Greece accepting Brits. Even France would ideally like British tourists. Austria may choose to restrict Brits through specific quarantine rules or tests on arrival. That is the most likely scenario in my mind. However the Re entry to UK may be a challenge and could be more restricted.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
@Matrix, +1
We are due to go to Austria for 2 weeks end August, driving - looking very touch and go atm. Hopefully mainland Europe gets its act together next 2-3 months and smells the coffee, currently they are going backwards. Our NHS has been magnificent, just hope the people behave over the next months as we go through spring into summer....that’s by no means assured. |
Strongly suspect we'll have another lockdown after Easter to drop rates ahead of summer tourism season. Seems to be talk that anyone who wants to get the vaccine, regardless of age, can from June/July... But I'll believe that when I see it!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| munich_irish wrote: |
@Dave of the Marmottes, lots of myths floating around as usual. The restrictions in the UK have been broadly similar to elsewhere in Europe, possibly less strict, no curfews or FFP2 masks there. The shops here opened for a couple of days last week and are now shut again, the beer garden opening has been postponed. The restrictions have been more seriously enforced than in the UK, an article in the paper this morning saying €2,000,000 of corona related fines have been handed out in Munich alone (I know Austria has been similar). Until now the course of infections has been about the same as the UK with a peak around Christmas / New Year and then dropping, the recent increase is a result of the "UK" variant (not convinced it originated there but that's irrelevant now) becoming widespread. It is clear the vaccination programme works, the Germans now realise this and are desperately trying to catch up (I believe Austria is similar). You dont need 100% vaccine coverage for it to work, without getting into irrelevant arguments the figure is going to be somewhere around 60% - 90%, from what I can see the UK is pretty much there with the over 50s (there is plenty of academic literature around on all this if you want to look). There will always be some academic or other saying "what about if...." but I think better to be optimistic.
I am not particularly optimistic that non EU citizens are going to be allowed into the EU come the summer (or that the UK will allow outbound leisure travel). There will be vaccine passports (Austria amongst others is very keen) but not sure all countries want them. I have a bad feeling that the compromise could well be OK for EU citizens not for non EU citizens, that would mean the Germans & Dutch etc back in the Tirol and most tourism in the Mediterranean countries but no help to the Brits. |
Just a question, but have you been lving in the UK or Germany over the last year? And also you recognise that restrictions are very different region to region in Germany. Keen to know on what basis you think Germany has had a broadly similar impact from Covid, and has had broadly similar interventions. Neither of whoch are factually true.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@munich_irish, paywalled (SDZ) – got a summary please?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@zikomo, I live just outside Munich. My family all live in London and in normal circumstances I am there on a very regular basis but clearly not for the past few months. Yes the details of the rules vary not just from Länder to Länder but Kreis (district) to Kreis but the broad thrust is very similar. Bavaria has tended to be a bit stricter than the rest and often has done things first, like FFP2 masks in supermarkets etc. and keeping restaurants closed for longer. The graphs of the case numbers for Germany and UK were until the past few weeks very similar https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases https://npgeo-corona-npgeo-de.hub.arcgis.com/app/478220a4c454480e823b17327b2bf1d4 , the peak last spring was clearly way under reported, the peak recently around Christmas / New Year. The big difference is with the number of fatalities which is a big subject rather beyond the scope of this thread.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Scarlet, apologies, I hadnt spotted it was an "SZ plus" article for which you need to be a subscriber. Basic summary is that Austria's politicians are arguing with each other (there's a surprise the Germans spent more than 12 hours yesterday arguing before agreeing that Easter is cancelled unless you fly to Mallorca) but have agreed to do "nothing" which has upset the Green health minister as "An additional "Eastern Summit" should therefore take place on Tuesday evening, which will focus on more stringent measures for Vienna, Lower Austria and Burgenland, which have above-average numbers of infections. In Vienna, the intensive care units in the hospitals have apparently reached their limit. The number of younger people using ventilators is also increasing.". Chancellor Kurz is complaining loudly that Austria should be getting more vaccine supply from Brussels, not something viewed with any sympathy in Berlin........
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@munich_irish, thanks. Been a bit busy and every time I’ve tuned in, it’s been “there will be a press conference in 2hrs...” and I gave up. Nothing new there, but I was interested in what the Germans were reading. I don’t think they know what they’re doing, and nobody cares anymore anyway.
Kurz seems to think that vaccines were unevenly distributed (though, incidentally, Austria is bang on average in that, and is owed nothing) but I don’t know why he thinks he should be entitled to extras. We already got a 100k booster.
I don’t think the ICU limit is what we would consider a limit, coming from the UK, though I expect they’re getting a bit busier than they’d like. I’m also slightly sceptical having read stories earlier in the year about a full hospital in Vienna (it was being used as a COVID hospital, so was receiving patients that would otherwise have been taken elsewhere) and one in Tirol which when I checked the numbers of occupied beds, appeared to be “full” at four COVID patients  it’s hard to know where the sensationalism ends.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Scarlet, That is so true. There have been lots of comments here from "ICU experts" warning of a looming "crisis" in German hospitals, you do wonder if they actually look at the rest of the world. It wasnt so long ago that Germany was sending medical teams to Portugal because people were being treated in ambulances outside, or the scenes from Brasil, LA or wherever. The suggestion that the same is likely to happen here or in Austria in the near future is not helpful at all, all it does is make people less inclined to believe any public health messages.
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| Matrix wrote: |
| Austria is something like 212 / 100,000 over 7 days. Uk is now under 60. Although I expect uk to go up with the easing. Austria needs to buck up it's ideas if they want tourists |
From a report, mainly dealing with the situation in Germany:
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| Since the weekend, the 7-day incidence in Germany is again higher than 100, and on Tuesday it rose to 108,1 (Monday: 107,3), according to the Robert Koch Institute (RKI). For comparison: In Austria According to the Agency for Health and Food Security (AGES), the 7-day incidence was 240,4. after 236,4 the day before. |
Things definitely not going in the right direction. I wonder if Austria will now follow Germany’s latest lockdown “handbrake”.
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@Cacciatore, is that the handbrake that Mutti has just u-turned on?
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I think that well known German word "Schadenfreude" might well be in the minds of many in Austria observing today's events in Germany. It is going to be rather difficult for Markus Söder etc to continue to lecture the "disorganised" Austrians.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Looks like there could be a complete lockdown over Easter weekend in Eastern Austria.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Situation does not look positive for the next few weeks. Bad feeling that although the UK seems to be heading out of the woods much of the rest of Europe, including Austria & Germany, are not. Maybe the UK gets removed from various "red lists" (Switzerland has just done so) but folk will not be allowed back into UK (even once the leisure travel ban is lifted). In Austria infection numbers are going up even in the Vorarlberg. I understand Viennese ski tourers will now need a recent test result before being allowed into the local hills ( @DB, is that true?). Here the number of daily positive test in the district has gone back up to the sort of numbers last seen around Christmas time  Vaccinations going very slowly.....
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You know it makes sense.
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@DB, Perhaps its me but I cant see any mention of trips into the hills whether on foot or on skis?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@munich_irish, there are lots of districts where you can’t leave without a neg test. If you need to cross one of these borders (as a resident there) to reach the hills, then that’s probably what it’s about.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Scarlet, that makes sense, I thought you only needed a test to use a lift.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@espri, yes, the restriction on the whole of Tirol was removed a few weeks ago when the vaccine drive started in Schwaz. The border then moved to the edge of Bezirke Schwaz, but several Gemeinden have been added since with their own border guards.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bavaria has removed the formal checks to and from Tirol (they were due to lapse tomorrow evening but have been removed 36 hours or so early). In practical terms, unless you are a truck driver etc, it makes little difference as the whole of Austria is on the German "risk" list so anyone who has been in any part of Austria is subject to quarantine, testing etc
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The 7 day infection rate per 100,000 continues to climb - Austria now at 249
https://covid19-dashboard.ages.at/
Given that Vienna is one of three regions on a 24 hour lockdown from 1st - 6th April (except for food shopping, family emergencies, medical or family emergencies and work), I’m staggered by the number of ‘W’ plates in our region. I’ve also seen a fair few Slovak, Polish and Hungarian plates, never mind German . Not that I believe Austria’s Covid problem is solely, or even remotely closely, related to travellers from these countries.
The Vorarlberg, which opened up to gastronomy a few weeks ago, still has the lowest rates at 130. How long that will last will be interesting to see. I saw a news item the other day suggesting visitors are going there for the chance to behave ‘normally’ from as far as 300km away!
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Reading all the above doesn’t fill me full of hope regards the chances of our end August trip being likely. 249 per 100,000 is bad, I haven’t kept up with the ins and outs of Austrian COVID strategy but whatever they are doing isn’t working clearly.
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@Markymark29, the issue is primarily the slow vaccine rollout, despite the histrionics from Sebastian Kurz, Austria is doing better than many (Germany included). However the situation is likely to improve significantly over the next month or so as vaccine supplies become much more abundant. Strange to say the UK demonstrates how widespread vaccination works, the media there is full of stories about crowds at football matches, traffic light systems for travel etc. I suspect the rest of us are not too far behind despite the current doom & gloom. No one can say what the situation in August will be but I think optimism is more in order. I suppose it depends whether you view a glass as being half empty rather than half full 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@munich_irish, Optimism on most things but not sure about travel this summer. So far 30 serious blood clots in 38,000,000 doses prescribed in U.K., reading the media from mainland Europe it was a serious issue, imv they need to get on with vaccinations rather than messing about spreading fear amongst people.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| Reading all the above doesn’t fill me full of hope regards the chances of our end August trip being likely. 249 per 100,000 is bad, I haven’t kept up with the ins and outs of Austrian COVID strategy but whatever they are doing isn’t working clearly. |
In most of the country (Vorarlberg excepted), only shops and salons have opened so far, along with schools, so to me anyway, there’s not a right lot of difference between “lockdown” and “not lockdown”. Eastern Austria is getting twitchy, so they’ve shut everything again for a couple of weeks. In Tirol, the method is to use testing on borders of high-infection-rate Gemeinden, as well as (again) on the border of Tirol itself (though this is accepted that it doesn’t really work, because hardly anyone crosses the state border regularly compared to their village borders). The rate is rising, but hospitalisations are not, though it’s difficult to know if this is still a delayed effect. Tirol has vaccinated more than other Austrian states (~20%) so maybe this is having a positive effect?
Otherwise, there is still no pressure to work from home, and everybody is having their families and friends over for dinner. There is a row in the city over whether to install seating or roadblocks in the Marktplatz 
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