On the contrary. While others were urging the police to bundle the flashing moniteurs into the backs of police buses, I was preparing a warm welcome comprising ...
... plus a pair of 'old school' Salomon skis festooned with a string of onions and garlic, and a 'Bienvenue à Londres' banner.
This is a terrible outcome.
My apologies, I obviously misread the tone of your tongue-in-cheek humour... Or perhaps I'm misreading the tone of this response and you did originally mean what I thought you meant and now you're...
I need to see the whites of your eyes to tell. Bloody internet.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
spud, look, you know and I know and everyone (apart from the useful idiots - most of whom aren't even ski instructors) know that it's just job protectionism. Yet we get people with the audacity and disingenuity to proffer what they well know to be spurious reasons to support the esp French CdF, ET and FEMPS positions. In private almost everyone on the other side of the drawbridge will admit to you that they know it's unfair and unnecessary but it's in their personal interests, which is why they don't comment. I respect that. We all have the right to protect our privilege. What gets my goat is those who wilfully and deliberately try to justify the situation with another contrived piece of specious nonsense.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
miranda wrote:
If you really would prefer to ski in France, don't go to the expensive places. As rob says, either go to a cheaper place in a big resort, or go to a cheaper resort.
.......
You really don't need to spend 80 euros on a family of 4 on the hill in France.
When skiing as a family, to save money on the mountain, we have a big breakfast before we leave each morning. I then fill a 1 ltr flask with hot chocolate, and a second 1ltr flask with soup. These go in my backpack along with packs of mars-bars (or similar 'elevenses' snack) and packs of mini-chedders (or similar 'lunch' snack). The hot chocolate is piping hot for elevenses and still 'warm' for 3pm. The soup is piping hot for lunch at 1-2pm.
This has the bonus of:
1 - meaning there is no spend required on the mountain sides
2 - I have a nice warm back all day
3 - The rucksack gets lighter as the day progresses
4 - You can have a nice picnic in the mountains
What gets my goat is those who wilfully and deliberately try to justify the situation with another contrived piece of specious nonsense.
So how well does your goat ski?
(Some French instructors have reacted angrily to the cancellation accusing the British of working illegally in France and one said they are bad teachers anyway and "ski like goats").
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
jamescollings wrote:
I then fill a 1 ltr flask with hot chocolate, and a second 1ltr flask with soup. These go in my backpack along with packs of mars-bars (or similar 'elevenses' snack) and packs of mini-chedders (or similar 'lunch' snack).
Just the kind of meal I've been searching for all my life in France, but always in vain.
Alastair Pink, my goat is ISIA with EMS, coach 2, teach and tech. Just can't ram home the ET. Too many kids getting in the way.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
If I ever get stuck on a broken down ski lift, I now know who I want to be there too.
After all it is free
After all it is free
PROBE EXCLUSIVE: LATEST INSIGHTS FROM THE NEWSDESK OF PLANETSKI
Planetski wrote:
Now I have had a fairly tedious time the last few days.
Trying to write informed articles about the planned ESF flashmob in London and a court case that could set a very important precedent ...
... Accurate information has been hard to come by and I have been told more than a few porkies and my ear has been bent on several occasions by people with an agenda.
How heartily I agree with this sentiment. Where do you find people without an agenda these days?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Comedy Goldsmith,
Quote:
Where do you find people without an agenda these days?
snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
PlanetSki is the most abysmal website in the world.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
slikedges wrote:
that it's just job protectionism
No it's not
slikedges wrote:
spud, look, you know and I know and everyone (apart from the useful idiots - most of whom aren't even ski instructors)
slikedges wrote:
Yet we get people with the audacity and disingenuity to proffer what they well know to be spurious reasons to support the esp French CdF, ET and FEMPS positions.
I don't support the ESF, FEMPS or anyone else
slikedges wrote:
What gets my goat is those who wilfully and deliberately try to justify the situation with another contrived piece of specious nonsense.
Can we get this back on track. TO ski guides have sod all qualifications to guide people (on piste or anywhere else).
There are no regulations set up to ensure they know what they are doing, or what to do in the case of an accident.
TO ski guides should not be allowed to take anyone, over whom they have a nominal amount of authority/leadership
I'm not saying that there may not be one or two that are not too bad at skiing, but this simply doesn’t qualify them to guide/lead/etc. But if they were as good as they were meant to be (and many of them think they are) then, if they really want to guide people around the slopes, why don’t they spend a few years getting trained and certified (by BASI, ENSA, etc) after which they can go back to acting like the pied piper, if they want.
At least their clients will be able to have at least a modicum of confidence in their abilities.
Dead simple
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Wayne wrote:
TO ski guides have sod all qualifications to guide people (on piste or anywhere else).
There are no regulations set up to ensure they know what they are doing, or what to do in the case of an accident.
TO ski guides should not be allowed to take anyone, over whom they have a nominal amount of authority/leadership
I'm not saying that there may not be one or two that are not too bad at skiing, but this simply doesn’t qualify them to guide/lead/etc. But if they were as good as they were meant to be (and many of them think they are) then, if they really want to guide people around the slopes, why don’t they spend a few years getting trained and certified (by BASI, ENSA, etc) after which they can go back to acting like the pied piper, if they want.
At least their clients will be able to have at least a modicum of confidence in their abilities.
I agree that there should be standards in place to ensure, as far as one can, that these clients are safely escorted around the piste network. What level of skills and experience do you think ski hosts should have to do that role? Do they need a teaching qualification (especially as they will be specifically banned from teaching)? Should someone develop a new qualification which tests group leadership, safety, knowledge of particular resorts, emergency procedures, best practice in ski hosting? Or should the authorities say nothing less than a fully qualified ski instructor will do?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Very disappointed that this has been cancelled. Apart from the uncoordinated mess that this would have been to behold, I was truly looking forward to a demonstration against the French.
Does anyone think they should have stuck to their guns and gone ahead with it? Do you think they had to cancel flights for 250 ESF moniteurs?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
iainm wrote:
Very disappointed that this has been cancelled. Apart from the uncoordinated mess that this would have been to behold, I was truly looking forward to a demonstration against the French.
Does anyone think they should have stuck to their guns and gone ahead with it? Do you think they had to cancel flights for 250 ESF moniteurs?
Agree with all of this. They were staggeringly naive if they thought they could do this and get only positive spin but now they look like cheese eating surrender monkeys for bottling it . Most disturbing of all someone has interpreted banter on snowheads, farcebook and other sites as a serious threat to a bit of poncing around fun.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Maybe they should head to Edinburgh and Glasgow instead, I reckon they'd get a better reception!
I don't know much about this court case everyone's banging on about but it strikes me people are taking positions based on the fact it's a Brit company v the (French) ESF. I agree there should be proper guiding qualifications because in my (albeit limited) observation some of these guides are mediocre skiers and IMHO are not competent to lead groups on piste.
The Euro test etc. IMHO is not about keeping it French it's about limiting supply and keeping wages high for a certain number of people and ensuring ski instruction is a viable career for those who enter it young enough to pass ... tough luck of course on anyone choosing a career change later in life! I agree a bit of honesty on the matter would be good because I think there a lot of people (many not even French) hiding behind a number of half truths and obfuscations on the matter!
At the end of the day though it's their country and if you don't like it go elsewhere!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Fixed it for you:
Wayne wrote:
slikedges wrote:
that it's just job protectionism
No it's not - Yes it is
slikedges wrote:
What gets my goat is those who wilfully and deliberately try to justify the situation with another contrived piece of specious nonsense.
Can we get this back on track. TO ski guides have sod all qualifications to guide people (on piste or anywhere else). - A special stand alone one day? qualification for this would be at best ideal but hardly necessary and at worst probably quite pointless
There are no regulations set up to ensure they know what they are doing, or what to do in the case of an accident. - Yeah, a quick chat and some guidance may be helpful.
TO ski guides should not be allowed to take anyone, over whom they have a nominal amount of authority/leadership - I'll stop skiing with my mates immediately
I'm not saying that there may not be one or two that are not too bad at skiing, but this simply doesn’t qualify them to guide/lead/etc. But if they were as good as they were meant to be (and many of them think they are) then, if they really want to guide people around the slopes, why don’t they spend a few years getting trained and certified (by BASI, ENSA, etc) after which they can go back to acting like the pied piper, if they want. - get qualified to ski pistes well enough to show the way whilst being congenial? Wouldn't a few years training make them a tad over-qualified?
At least their clients will be able to have at least a modicum of confidence in their abilities. - at last, agreement, thousands of satisfied customers every year without any qualifications at all!
Dead simple
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Rob asks all the right questions, and it's really for the public to answer them.
The tour operators essentially know their public. We do need to regard the mountains - whether covered in snow or not - as free open spaces where people can do what they want (within reason, which the ski patrol look after).
I think the lift companies - who obviously control who goes up - also understand this, in the same way as the tour operators.
Ski schools shouldn't have the right to 'play god' but I'm also disappointed that le flashmob won't go ahead. London thrives on culture and counter-culture!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Slightly off-topic - just found this on the BASI regarding Eurotest advice:
"Skis - Candidates are required to have one ski on each foot"
What a ridiculous statement - do they really think someone will be able to complete this without conforming to this ?
Obviously I'm way out on the edge of understanding here, and I apologise, but I have read this with vague interest and wondered: do people being shown around the mountain by the TO rep. ostensbily pay for this privilage? If they don't then how does this differ from meeting up with someone (possibly otherwise unknown), but familiar with a resort and being shown round it for a day? i.e. exactly what happened to me the first time I was in Val Thorens.
My opinion (& is it just opinion like everyone elses) is that ski hosting is not a direct substitute for tuition nor does it require the same technical or teaching ability as Instructors. It should however require a degree of responsibility taking, group management and basic level of common sense ability to respond to emergencies.
Now in North America they seem to achieve this by utilising long term locals who are very familiar with the local ski area, perhaps they might be retired ski area employees or simply long term users of the area, they have radios and know how to call dispatch etc and err on the side of caution with terrain choice (NB this is not groomers only). As they tend to be voluntary positions remunerated only by a free ski pass and perhaps a free lunch when on duty there is occasional friction e.g. when a ski area tries to pull a fast one by trying to make them pay for their own liability insurance. It strikes me that this is a sensible model - they are qualified by experience, get people socially involved and with an overall positive view of a resort and of course are able to upsell to lessons etc.
I've not really got a lot of experience with TO hosts. I remember going with hosts as a teenager with my brother when it was the best way to convince my parents we were going to be under control, there was definitely no instruction and the hosts seemed to be perfectly competent and responsible to our unexpert eye i.e. they were passably good at hiding stonking hangovers etc and how good did they need to be to cruise the blues? I can imagine there are some shockers out there and I essentially agree with Wayne that the best way of ensuring competence is some basic level of training but I'd imagine this would be more like the SCGB "guide" course with a First Aid certificate than anything more involved. Even that wouldn't guarantee some bad apples wouldn't get through but the same remains trues of full ISTD instructors.
re "hosts" being mediocre skiers - I'm not sure that's an issue. There are UIAGM guides who are fairly agricultural skiers (as well as many who are world class of course) but their job is route finding and keeping clients safe not being technical role models. A TO Host is essentially a human piste map and body counter who perhaps provides a bit of chat on chairlifts as well. I suspect for many who use them the "host" could drop out after 20 minutes and the rest of the group having been introduced could get on perfectly well. Maybe in the twitterverse they can eventually become virtual matching up people who could conceivably ski together. I cringe sometimes when I see TO hosted groups as they are a very visible example of what "British" skiing looks like to the rest of the world but then I think the same about some SCGB groups and groups of seasonnaires in fancy dress so who really cares about my personal prejudices?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
dsoutar wrote:
Slightly off-topic - just found this on the BASI regarding Eurotest advice:
"Skis - Candidates are required to have one ski on each foot"
What a ridiculous statement - do they really think someone will be able to complete this without conforming to this ?
That's a FIS regulation I believe. So, for example, if you fall just before the finish line and lose a ski before you break the timing circuit your time won't qualify.
After all it is free
After all it is free
I remember going on school ski trips when i was younger and after lessons in the mornings we would break off into groups and go around the mountain with a teacher.
At a guess ESF would judge the teacher taking us around as a "paid" guide and as such want to take him to court as well?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Bode Swiller wrote:
ESF Flashmob London - Must Be Stopped (and it was!)
This thread really must be stopped, Swiller
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
rob@rar, {POSSIBLE URBAN MYTH ALERT} I thought it was being in posession / control of three out of four (2 skis, 2 poles) that qualified as a finishing run?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Arctic Roll wrote:
rob@rar, {POSSIBLE URBAN MYTH ALERT} I thought it was being in posession / control of three out of four (2 skis, 2 poles) that qualified as a finishing run?
Might be right, I'm sure I've heard that before. I was just pointing out that the "stating the obvious" of having two skis isn't quite a straightforwardly dumb statement as it appears, and it's not a BASI rule.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Arctic Roll, yep, have to cross line with 3 out of 4
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rob@rar, It isn't a FIS rule, you can lose both skis before the finish line and still get a time.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rjs, any idea where it comes from? I've definitely seen that statement before.
Snowheads – the leading snowsports forum in the UK – also had a thread proposing that the Flash Mob should be stopped. Wags suggested their own ‘Flash Pint’ at a local pub, as well as checking that the moniteurs had appropriate qualifications to dance in Britain
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rules for completing a race as per FIS document:-
615.3 Crossing of the Finish Line and Recording of the Times
The finish line must be crossed:
- on both skis or
- on one ski or
- with both feet in case of a fall in the immediate finish area. In this case
the time is taken when any part of the competitor's body or equipment
stops the timekeeping system.
So I think the BASI doc is saying you can't start on one ski, but let's face it if you could pass the ET on one ski then you really deserve it!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Comedy Goldsmith, I still reckon they might do it. Now everyone has been thrown off the scent, perfect time to sneak into Londres and take everyone by surprise. For sure it would lead to more publicity and, remember, John & Josephine Public out there couldn't give a toss about the political stuff going on in the background.
Comedy Goldsmith, I still reckon they might do it.
Well, you'd better get down there then, Swiller. Two hours to go ... and if they don't turn up you can start a protest about something (the rising price of bread?)
Atout France UK PR
@AtoutFranceUKpr
Morning all, the #esfflashmob originally planned for tomorrow in London has sadly been postponed due to technical reasons.
Technical reasons?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
it if you could pass the ET on one ski then you really deserve it!
Unless you are British and taking work from those poor French instructors
After all it is free
After all it is free
or you are Bode!!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Ok I'm still confused - if I take my kids out for the afternoon and have planned the route we are taking am I breaking the law
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Joke....
