Jungfrau Ski region pt. 2

A snowHead

Personally I like the idea of the Y Gondola, bringing the start point of First closer to the centre of Grindelwald and making Grindelwald more pedestrianised, however I can't see a gondola or cable car from Wengen over to Murren working, the Lauterbrunnen valley gets a lot of high winds especially in the wintertime which would shut such a system down pretty quickly.

If it were up to me I would look at the following:

Re instate the second route to Innerwengen by bringing back the link below bumps lift and restoring telegraph field routes.

Maybe see if a new piste through the trees could be added to the Mannlichen between Aspen and Holenstein

Beat the heads of the owners of the Lauberhorn chairlift and their neighbours repeatedly until they agree to lower the bottom station to a location reachable from Arven and Scheidegg without having to walk uf a short steep hill Evil or Very Mad

See if an extra piste could be added behind plum pudding (at Wengeneralp) to the top of the bumps area, I'm sure I remember skiing this route with the ski school as a child.

Ensure that the second split of Piste 22 just above Brandegg is reinstated as it was a much better route than following the road.

See if the old high piste above the railway line from Allmend could be reinstated (I'm doubtful about this because of avalanche risk from the Mannlichen).

Look into putting a piste down to Lauterbrunnen from Wengen, it can be skied but I doubt theres a good route down for a piste.

See if a couple of extra black runs couldn't be put in somewhere on the Mannlichen or Grindelwald side of Eigergletscher maybe.

Sort out the pain that is Grindelwald Grund where it is all but impossible to ski to the majority of the bottom stations, resulting in long walks across icy car parks Sad

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

The game being played here is called 'fantasy gondola'. The rules are simple. You can build 1 gondola lift between any 2 points in the Jungfrau Region. It can have a mid-station.

My own favourie has always been Wengen - Winteregg - Birg, though if you stay in Murren I suppose you'd prefer the Wengen end to be up at Scheidegg Smile

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Not even sure how practical a link would actually be, it's certainly possible to have an unsupported span the width of the Lauterbrunnen Valley (less than 2km even diagonally across) but you'd be some 1500ft above the valley floor at a minimum, Ignoring the risk to the helicopters that fly from Lauterbrunnen for a moment thats a hell of a drop if anything were to go wrong or worse if a simple strong gust of wind blew down the valley.

If you really want something spectacular try this for a Gondola route:

Start at Birg theres no room at teh to of Piz gloria , drop down to Winteregg, Drop again to Lauterbrunen Station, then Up to Wengen, Over the ridge at a point between Tschuggen and Lauberhorn peaks I think, then Down to Grindelwald Station and Off to some point over at First.

Of course it would never get built, they have only just replaced the Funicular from Lauterbrunnen with a cablecar, the Gondola would not be able to take heavy loads so would be useless for trade but would take a lot of people from the railways which they wouldn't like.

There have been many flights of fancy in the region over the years.

At one point serious consideration was given to building a large underground carpark between Zweilutschinen and Lauterbrunnen with a direct feed from the motorway and a lift inside the mountain to take people up to Wengen allowing visitors to arrive and leave even when the trains were not running, Consideration was also at one point being given to upgrading Interlaken Airport to somewhere that could take commercial flights. I believe the Swiss are still upgrading many of their rail links with the intention of allowing Interlaken to benefit from High speed links to Paris and Cologne (I think) perhaps with the EU determined to tax holiday flights to the Max train journeys might once again be practical, a sleeper service running overnight from London to Interlaken would be jolly nice perhaps with stops in Paris and Bern, Leave Friday night after work, dinner and breakfast on the train and be on the slopes when they open in the morning

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

D G Orf, I also remember talk of converting Interlaken airport into one that could take commercial flights. I guess it wouldn't have been big enough for 737s/ A320s but I'd have thought you could get the planes that fly in and out of London City into it - the Embraers etc. It would have been fantastically convenient.

Rather than these consultants put forward a pie in the sky plan for a series of fanciful lifts, to remain competitive the area would do better to concentrate on the more minor things. Not only the odd set up of chairlifts at KS, and making the Bumps lift accesible for beginners, but also replacing the Tschuggen T bar (some of my friends really hate using that), changing the stale 1970's look a lot of the Wengen hotels have, and addressing the lack of any sort of indoor cafe on the Maennlichen - Kleine Schidegg route. The number of times we've wished for a heisse Schokolade mit Rum when at the bottom of Tschuggen and Gummi. The outside bars at the bottom of the Maennlichen lift and the one just above Arven are nice in good weather but not when it's bad. I've heard the lack of something here is down to the old feuding farmers. The contrast between Saas Fee/ Zermatt and Jungfrau is becoming more and more noticeable. The Wallis resorts seem to have embraced comfort and change without destroying the charm.

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Dg.
I could cope with finishing work on a Frideay night and skiing on saturday morningin Wengen. My only problem is the time it takes to get out of Devon to the Metropolis to catch trains etc!!

I drove to paris via the Norfolk line from Dover in November it took me 4 hours to Dover and then just under 2 hours from dunkirk to the Hotel in Paris---makes no sense but I like living down here!!

Believe it or not your fantasy cable car was seriously considered in the early 60'sand I think they even had a feasibilty study from what I remember through heresay. It was going to hang from near the Hotel Schweizerheim across to the top of the cable car out of Lauterbrunnen at Winteregg. I think you hit the button though with the height involved and at the time the technology. My elder sister's father in law was at the time station master at Scheidegg for the Jungfraubahn and I used to hear all sorts of stories !!

No doubt you are talking of the Hirchen as the restaurant near to the Hotel Brunner? Very good Fondue Bourginone but a tad expensive!

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Holly, Isn't it Hirschen ? But yes that's the one I was thinking of, used to walk up there sometimes with my parents when we rented a chalet near the Brunner Slopes.

As for getting to London from Devon I know what you mean I'm on the coastal edge of the New Forest myself and even from here it's 2 hours on a "fast" train to London Sad

I can do more weird and wonderful ideas, one proposed route for getting people up the Jungfrau before Guyer put his train line in, was a pneumatic lift on multiple levels going from the floor of the Lauterbrunnen valley up through the solid rock Shocked

Think of it a bit like a London Underground railway carriage tipped on end and at a slight angle with seats on multiple levels Confused

pjd, agree about the Tschuggen Tbar, I believe one reason it has remained a tbar is that the route is prone to high winds which don't effect a drag lift but would a chair lift

There is a surprising amount of feuding between the different farmers, I guess when you only have a limited amount of alpine pasture every little bit is important, there's also issues about lack of vehicle access to either the bottom of the Tschuggen lift or the bottom of the Gummi which makes re stocking a restaurant a problem, the bar at the bottom of the Mannlichen chair can at least get its supplies sent down on the chairlift having been delivered to the top of Mannlichen by gondola or Cablecar, the only way to get deliveries in would be by snowcat which may not be practicle

After all it is free

Farmers love a good feud, the longer the better.

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After the storms, the calm. A moon as bright as day - at least the last few days anyway. Very Happy

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Wow, the trains have been closed so frequently so far this season. Anyone remember lsat time they closed them this often?

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Gummi and Eigernordwand chairs currently closed everything else open above Wengen, Lifts above Schreckfeld also shut over at Grindelwald as are the cabel car up to Birg from Murren plus all lifts at the top served by it as well as the cablecar from Lauterbrunnen up to Grutschalp and the rail link from there to Winteregg, I assume at least some of these closures are due to avalanches or at least high risk of same, the link from Grutschalp to Winteregg has been disrupted by falling trees in several places, they anticipate re opening that on Sunday morning.

Kleine Scheidegg open but looks like the run from there down to Wixi has a bit of fresh snow on it as several people are having to pole their way along, Piste basher currently working just below Kleine Schidegg on the red run down towards Arvengarten, people hard at work down at the end of the race track cleaning off all the snow from the stands, Schreckfeld moderately busy at the moment as is Mannlichen, the general overcast state of the sky suggest some snow likely.

DG
I stand corrected over the spelling of Hirschen !

I have never herd of the pneaumatic lift idea from Lauerbrunnen---- crazy but i love it !

Wish I was there to see National flag aginst the Jungfrau.

I shall be doing my bit for the schools in Risoul in February so hope the snow stays good.

You know it makes sense.

In fact my typing is rubbish ! No T in lauterbrunnen. No A in heard and spelt pneuatic wrong=============deeeergh! Oh well of to Dartmoor for a walk now see if there is any snow up there!!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Holly, the Pneumatic lift details can be found in the book that tells of the construction of the Jungfrahbahn, I always found it interesting that the JB was electric long before the WAB switched from steam, I believe it was one of the first electric railways in the world, environmentally friendly as well with it's power station down at Lauterbrunnen.

The best tale I read however was that during construction of the JB the explosives store blew up one winter with 30 tons of dynamite inside and far across the valley (I think it might have been at Busalp but I really can't remember) the owner of the restaurant returned in the spring to find all of the furniture had been blown across the inside and up against one wall Shocked

The remarkable thing considering the period when it was built, were the very few fatalities that occurred during the construction of the JB. August the first 2012 will mark the One Hundredth aniversery of the official opening of Jungfraujoch Station.

A snowHead

I see from from the DHO webcam that they seem to have made a start on building the staging etc opposite the DHO in preparation for next weekend's Lauberhorn race events. Smile

A snowHead

Alastair Pink, Also made a start on the stage by the ice rink http://www.myjungfrau.ch/de/page.cfm/cam_wengen the structure opposite the DHO is usually some form of corporate hospitality facility these days it's probably mobile phones being sold there as well.

When I was last in Wengen when the downhill was on I got given a VIP pass for entry to one of the two main viewing areas, I chose to go to plumb pudding, not realising I'd have to walk all the way up to the vip area on top, but what a great view I had from there when I made it up, it was a glorious day Finlay Mickel cam in in 10th place, aa I watched in bright sunshine sipping my free drinks and eating my free food snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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DG
Thanks for that.Interested in the book re building Of JB. Can you let know the title and author?

Needless to sayno snow on Dartmmoor!! Just very wet and soggy.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Just shows how popular a place the Jungfrau region is when you look at how many entries there are in this forum for the region against other resorts. !!

Looks good out there you lucky ones.

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Holly, It is great forum, and a friendly one! Even those of us who post infrequently get a lot out of it so my New year resolution is to be more active here. As a start has anyone else noticed that the frequency of posts seems to have a relationship with the intensity of the weather in the Jungfrau area? Might be my imagination, or I may be stating the bleeding obvious, but the prospect of 'active' weather brings a flurry not only of snow but of postings. Discuss! snowHead

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Brian T, It's true, these days I tend to only respond to posts rather than just post on a near daily basis in the ski season, I still watch the webcams on a daily basis with my favourites being the DHO and the Kleine Scheidegg Station cameras, using those two alone I can get a pretty good idea of likely snow conditions and depths, added to which they are both pretty good views Happy

After all it is free

DG
I think I am responsible for being very much a seasonal contributor to here ! Basically come about November time my mind thinks 'Ah snow' and goes into Wengen mode. I have although been over a few times in the summer also and enjoyed walking from Mannlichen via Scheidegg back to Wengen. --My kees were killing me after that though-far better on the skis!

I like the Scheidegg Bahnhoff webcam as my daily fix. I do wish they would enlarge the option on the Swisspanorama camera at the top of the Mannlichenn though !

I know Karl Fuchs has relinquished the Eiger now but do you know if he is still alive? He used to make the best steak tartare ever.

Holly, I have to admit I'm not certain as to Karls status, the Eiger used to also make particularly good burgers, using steak ground for each order

Have walked the summer path from Mannlichen to Kl Scheidegg many times in summer months slightly less often I have carried on the walk down to Wengen, have also done the walk the other way which is hard work, but nothing like as bad as walking up from Lauterbrunnen to Wengen in the winter due to a blocked rail line

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Holly, I'm sure he's still alive, he wasn't that old, was he (unless you're talking about a parent and i'm thinking son)? Also, his email address is on a banner advertising apartments for sale in the building - I believe what was the hotel restaurant has yet to be sold (and i think some apartments too).

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Thank you for the replies. Karl Fuchs was the last time I saw him about 3 years ago must have been in his eighties! he was a great pal of my father although Dad died in the early seventies--He was secretary of the Curling Club-- His name still everywhere on all the old white boards in the old clubhouse no also used by the DHO.

I have never had to walk up from Lauterbrunnen to Wengen -must be an absoloute killer . I have walkde down a fair few times and luged down as well knocking myself clean out on 1 x occaission when I was a great deal younger!

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Holly, my father on occasion skied down to Lauterbrunnen, but that was many decades ago and I have no idea which way he went.

I have also been told by more than one Wengen resident that there used to be a local who could beat the train up from Lauterbrunnen to Wengen, he used to bet tourists a drink at the Eiger that he could do so, think this was in the old days with the old steeper but slower rail line

Training of the Lauberhorn downhill race in Wengen

Thanks for wengen.com for sharing

http://youtube.com/v/SvZH2o7X4Mc

You know it makes sense.

ah, i'm thinking of the son then! In his 60s I'd guess.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

DG

I haven't got a clue where your father skied down to Lauterbrunnen from Wengen. If you stand and wait in Lauterbrunnen for the WAB looking up -as one does!- it all looks pretty sheer apart from the Hohenfluh side which seems a little more accesible. Be interesting to know though. I remember once and only once going up the 'old' line form Lauterbrunnen in the days of the old coffee grinders as there was a tree down on the newer line. As you know you pass over it if you use the footpath down. They also brought new rolling stock up that way for the JB as there are no tunnels on it.

You know I'm sure our paths must have crossed at some time or another in Wengen. Were you ever involved with the DHO or The ski school?

Beanie. Yes I think you are meaning Karl Fuchs junior who would be about in his 60,s. Karl Fuchs senior had the tip of one of his fingers missing----I often wondered if it had ended up in one of his Steak Tartars!!!

A snowHead

Holly, have certainly been with the DHO was even a committee member for a short time

As for the route my father took I have no idea, it would have been with the ski school probably some time in the 50's, the only likely route I can see on a map is roughly a straight line drawn between Wengen and Lauterbrunnen stations, as you say pretty much everywhere else is sheer and even that route would be steep, still he was a far better skier than I am ever likely to be having learnt in the days where there were no piste machines or very few

A snowHead

DG
I never rose to the ranks of the commeitee but skied with DHO for many years mostly when dear old Ros Hepworth was there when the office was down the slope by the Old Palace Ice rink. In later years I then undertook to help with the Coggins---great fun used to give me the jitters making sure that they all had their skis off the wagon at Wengernalp before the train left for Scheidegg.

Do you remember the Mabey family and the Stace family all avid DHO skiers?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Holly,

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A lovely sunny day here in murren, absolutely perfect skiing conditions. Sat and had a beer on the sunshine patio of the Bellvue earlier. Have been able to ski the whole route down to Lauterbrunnen this week, only the second time in seven years! Looking forward to the racing tomorrow and Saturday.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Just checked out the DHO webcam in Wengen....looks rather busy !!

and lovely beautiful Mürren looks empty

After all it is free

Wish I was back there! Popped in to see Johnny luv plums last week. In good form but not posting anymore. Told him he was missed!

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Johnny luv plums is a legend in his own board track snowHead

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Jungfrau Ski region pt. 2

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