 Poster: A snowHead
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| Kramer wrote: |
| My next goal is to bench press my body weight. |
Wolfgang Gullich could do one finger pull ups... that can be your next goal 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kramer,
Where did I say things should be done in isolation and only diet or exercise would work? We actually agree on many things (lifestyle change, exercise, healthy diet) but you seem to be concentrating on certain points which you take out of context to disagree with.
You still haven't come up with anything to dispell the "fat burning foods" and they are healthy foods which I've seen recommended by various sources.
The first article does say approximately 1 h/d but this could be an average, it also relates to a low calorie diet.
When you exercise virtually every day with the same intensity without keeping a check on calories there is a tendancy for you to eat more and the fat doesn't go away. Been there, done that got the T-shirt. 5 years ago I was 10 kg heavier, lost 3 kg but then hit a brick wall despite eating relatively healthy and exercising most days of the week. Once I created the calorie deficit and incorporated certain foods into my diet I lost another 7 kg in as many months and have maintained that weight for ca 6 months.
1-2 lbs a week weight loss is considered healthy is it not? It doesn't appear like you're getting anywhere near that and I believe horizon wants to lose weight in time for the next ski season and not for his retirement.
So if you exercise but don't burn as many calories per day as you consume what happens to the remaining calories?
To be clear I'm saying exercise (not necessarily everyday at the same intensity) and maintaining a small (ca 500 cals/day) calorie deficit is what gets rid of fat. You appear to be saying that only your exercise routine and eating healthy (without calorie controll) will work.
| Quote: |
What's the secret to losing belly fat?
There's no secret, no one best approach for losing belly fat. More activity and eating less are key. The good news is that while there's no easy trick or shortcut, with more exercise and fewer calories, belly fat is the first kind of fat to go.
The only tried-and-true method to lose fat of any kind is:
Reduce the amount of calories you take in. You can do this by eating smaller amounts of food, or stick to foods that have fewer calories.
Burn fat by making physical activity part of your daily routine.
An important part of staying healthy is not only losing weight, but also keeping it off — this means after you lose weight, you still need to watch what — and how much — you eat and get regular exercise. However, it takes more effort to lose weight in the first place than it does to keep it off. |
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/belly-fat/MC00054
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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DB, I agree that creating a caloric defecit is the correct way to lose weight, but I don't think that calorie counting is the best way to do it in the long term. The problem with calorie counting is that at some point you are likely to lapse, and when you do, it is likely that the weight will go back on. I feel that a better long term strategy is to be 'calorie aware' but not actually have a strict calorie limit that you count to.
The 'fat burning foods' seems a load of hyperbole to me. Basically it can be summed up as eat plenty of fruit and veg.
Also 1lb to 2lb is the currently given advice for weight loss, however in my view it's too quick for sustained weight loss, and as far as I know it's not evidence based. Weight goes on from a small calorific surfeit over a long period of time. IMV to make a sustainable lifestyle change that is going to last, the weight loss needs to be slow as well.
My own personal fitness program was somewhat hampered by having no kitchen facilities for six months (long story, now sorted) and so basically living off processed foods and take aways for that time. Fortunately I now have a kitchen again. Even more fortunately, religious gym attendance meant that I did not put any weight on in that time. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
An appearance based goal would be to take a picture of yourself now in your underpants, and then compare it with how you look in three months time.
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I did this on 29th June, albeit in leggings and a tight t-shirt mind you rather than underpants, although it was just as unflattering! I did it so I could measure my progress visually which is a great idea. Also having a photo to look at from the past when you looked nice and trim helps too as an incentive to get back there.
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When you exercise virtually every day with the same intensity without keeping a check on calories there is a tendancy for you to eat more and the fat doesn't go away. Been there, done that got the T-shirt.
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Last time I lost a lot of weight (2-2.5 stone) I didn't look at calories but tried to keep the no of fat grams low or lower in a day, and that seemed to work ok. Of course the more fat grams in a food, the more calories it has too so it was effectively reducing my calorie intake one way or another. That was the key to my success, watching my diet and exercising more. Once I had lost the weight, then I could go back to eating a bit more again as long as I kept the exercise up (which I didn't and this is why I'm fat again!)
It basically comes down to energy intake versus energy expenditure to lose weight. Less food equals less energy and more exercise equals more energy used. The last month that I've been going to the gym 3-4 times a week, I felt better in myself and my body changed shape slightly, but I carried on eating way too much to be honest. As a result, and it was no surprise to me either, my weight remained constant, or I even gained a kg I think. I scoffed too much at the BBQ come to mention it which is why I've started over this week from scratch.
What I've done starting from this Mon 28th July is I've gone back to the chap at the gym who did my original programme a couple of years back that worked last time (it was someone different who did it a month ago and I felt it was too easy for me so I went to the guy who knew what sort of intensity I could cope with-probably a bit more than the first guy thought I could  ) and so I've now got an hour of cardio and only 1 weight machine every time I go down there, no separate weight programme for now. I've got quite a lot of muscle on my body anyway especially for your average 29 year old female from weight lifting before. His recommendation was concentrate on all cardio for now each visit, sort the diet out, get the majority of the weight off and then we can reintroduce weights back in later on, perhaps in a month or so.
Even in a couple of days of eating healthily and doing the new programme (much more intense at almost an hour of cardio instead of about 35-40 minutes before with no breaks to go to the weight machines etc) I've felt trimmer round the middle! I don't know if I've imagined that though, I'm sure it can't happen that quickly or maybe it can.
I will measure my arms, waist, hips and thighs later I think and record the measurements and then see what they are again this time next month!
I'm sure the original chap's programme will work for me again as it did so well last time combined with my healthy eating plan.
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It's amazing how many reasons otherwise quite intelligent people can think up for why they're fat. My daughter in law, struggling to lose weight after having babies (and pregnant with a third at the moment) insists that she only lost weight after she gave up breast feeding, "and so did my friends". In vain do I argue that the laws of physics mean that a 4 - 5 month old fully breast fed baby is taking huge numbers of calories. You have to be eating an absolutely terrible mountain of calories not to lose weight, feeding a baby that age. I remember when my second baby was that age, feeling rather tired, getting on a bathroom scales one morning and realising that I was half a stone lighter than I'd been in my adult life. For the first time ever I needed to try to put on a bit of weight! I'd been eating sensibly, to lose the pregnancy weight, but immediately ran over the shop for a packet of the kind of chocolate biscuits I'd not eaten for ages. It just beggars belief that some women will not breastfeed "for the sake of their figures". My very large sister in law, who has a real weight problem and a history, amongst other things, of a horrible operation which bypassed half her gut, has a pile of slimming mags a metre high beside the chair in which she sits to watch the rubbish TV weight loss programmes. If she carried the mags up and down stairs a few times a day it would probably do the trick. People's capacity to delude themselves is endless. She eats "low fat" sweet yogurts for breakfast and buys the daftest foods like "weight watchers chocolate eclairs". And then says I'm lucky to be able to have a slice of multi grain toast! I've tried to persuade her to read the label on her horrible yogurt, and that "weight watchers chocolate eclairs" are just a con, and she watches enough diet programmes to "know" where the problem lies, but there's some part of her otherwise intelligent brain which just denies it.
I think all these very fancy weight loss theories and ideas are just a way of escaping the rather difficult truth that everybody knows perfectly well what they ought to stop eating, but is in denial. "If I just do another four million bench pressing ball sitting one finger push me pull yous I can have another take away curry".
A great income generating opportunity for a new generation of gurus.
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pam w, interesting also to read your comments about the breast feeding. I hadn't heard of anyone not doing it for the sake of their figures before. Makes perfect sense to me than breast feeding would use up lots of calories. Thing is, perhaps mothers eat more thinking they need to because they're breast feeding or something, resulting in weight gain.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Thing is, perhaps mothers eat more thinking they need to because they're breast feeding or something, resulting in weight gain.
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I suppose they must, or they wouldn't be fat. Also, the "figure" business is about muscle tone as much as weight - you need to do the right exercise throughout pregnancy and after. There is simply no need for stomachs to sag after having babies - it's just an excuse. But neither, in my experience, is there any need to wear yourself to a sweaty frazzle for hours every week. Though come to think of it that's a fair definition of motherhood anyway!
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Although of course you won't know what I looked like before will you!
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how about a "before" picture then, to compare? We are going to the Alps tomorrow and just had a huge farewell dinner with the neighbours, sitting outside watching the swans fight. I now feel as tight as a tick and very fat indeed. I'd better go and pack....
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pam w, I have taken a "before" picture in my gym clothes on 29th June so I'll bring that with me in October so you can see the difference (hopefully!)
Nah I jest about the "hopefully", the thing is you can tell lots about how your clothes fit. I have a pair of cropped jeans that I used to wear a couple of years ago, and at the moment I can get them up to about thigh level! They will be my measuring tool. Strangely enough I have been wearing a pair of jeans I've had for about 7 years and although, they're too tight round the waist, I can still get them on. They must have been big to start with.
Although being realistic I think it will take a bit longer than 3 months to get into them cropped jeans again, they are a size 10 anyway and as I say I don't want to plummet in weight, I'd rather lose it relatively slowly and then it lasts as long as I keep the exercise going, that's the key, don't stop exercising once you've shifted the flab!
Enjoy the Alps.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Well, I'm not getting a weeks break from the cycling. My Swiss friend raked my old bike out and announced that she would be happy to come with me so we've been out tonight Though I have to confess that we stopped for 1/2 pint in a pub on the way round.
BMF_Skier, You, didn't have to name and shame!! B.t.w. it wasn't large chips in that manner - they were just physically large chips - not a large portion of.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Kramer, You've said that you work in Mansfield. Maybe you live there too? Do you think that there is some relevance to your evident ability to remain focussed on keeping fit? My experience is that there are quite simply no other distractions in that hell-hole - you might just as well concentrate on keeping fit and building the body beautiful, there's nothing else of interest to do. I could very nearly have spent the rest of my life in Mansfield: maybe I would have become fit, but the men in white coats would have carried me off first.
...sorry, I had a bad experience in Mansfield once, brushed nylon sheets and a Masonic Ladies' Night were - separately - involved...long story...
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
| The fact remains, the recommendation is that adults need to exercise to the point of getting hot, sweaty, and out of breath, for at least 30-45 minutes, five times a week. |
The fact is, every individual is different. Some, are more fit than others without exercise. Some others, don't need to exercise as often. While the rest, might need to do more intensive exercise but less frequent.
All of your "benchmark of fitness" are not equal on people of different genetic makeup. I'm no super athlet. Yet, I can bike for 100 miles at a moment's notice. And I only ride 1-2 a week!
My entire extended family on my mother side are super healthy without ever bothering with "exercise", lived to be over 90 in good health. It's clearly hereditary. I'm pretty sure NONE of my relatives can bench press their body weight. My mom even failed her physical education class in high school!
Your definition of "fitness" may require 5-6 time a week of exercise but they're not the equivalent of actual good health. So your quoted "recommendation" is too much for some and too little for others.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Kramer wrote: |
| DB, I agree that creating a caloric defecit is the correct way to lose weight, but I don't think that calorie counting is the best way to do it in the long term. The problem with calorie counting is that at some point you are likely to lapse, and when you do, it is likely that the weight will go back on. I feel that a better long term strategy is to be 'calorie aware' but not actually have a strict calorie limit that you count to. |
The main difference between people who maintain a healthy weight and those who don't is that the successful ones have discipline. If you don't keep a check on cals and weight etc you can quickly get way off course. Once you get in shape you don't need the decifit but it's all too easy to slip back into a surplus.
| Kramer wrote: |
| The 'fat burning foods' seems a load of hyperbole to me. Basically it can be summed up as eat plenty of fruit and veg. |
Does it really matter what the incentive is to eat healthy?
| Kramer wrote: |
| Also 1lb to 2lb is the currently given advice for weight loss, however in my view it's too quick for sustained weight loss, and as far as I know it's not evidence based. Weight goes on from a small calorific surfeit over a long period of time. IMV to make a sustainable lifestyle change that is going to last, the weight loss needs to be slow as well. |
So you agree with certain one line recommendations from the medical industry but not others. Funny how you only agree with the ones you have been able to achieve.
| Kramer wrote: |
| My own personal fitness program was somewhat hampered by having no kitchen facilities for six months (long story, now sorted) and so basically living off processed foods and take aways for that time. Fortunately I now have a kitchen again. Even more fortunately, religious gym attendance meant that I did not put any weight on in that time. |
I fell off a ladder and injured my wrist during my 7kg weight loss phase, weight training, mountain biking and boxing training were out of the question for at least a month.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Everyones definition of fitness is different, for some people being fit means being able to run a marathon in world class times or compete in an iron man competition, for others it might simply mean not being puffed out when you climb the stairs to bed, if you want to get fitter you need to define realistic goals to aim for and don't get hung up or things like BMI values, a friend of mine who is about an inch taller than me at arround 6'2" is according to the BMI scale nudging being overweight and yet he only wears 34" or 36" waisted trousers i.e he actually looks thin, that being the case there is no way that I am ever going to get into a reasonable value for BMI because purely from measuring joint sizes across the bone I'm 10 to 20% larger than him on the skeleton and have significantly greatewr muscle mass
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Kramer wrote: |
| I'm feeling quite chuffed today, because for the first time ever, I can do an unassisted pull-up. Close grip only at the moment, but I'll get the hang of wide grip soon. |
Well done. I've been trying to work out how to do a reduced body weight ones, comparing to press ups on knees etc but can't think of any ATM.
Your post does highlight another problem. I don't think I'm especially fit (according to most charts I'm still a couple of stone overweight  ) but without any practice I can do a couple of pull-ups (just tried) and I'm fairly sure I could have completed the swim part of a Olympic triathlon, even at my least fit, but I know I'd still struggle to do the cycling and running parts.
Another thing to throw into the mix. If we take the suggestion of 1/2 an hour five times a week (I know there has been discussion about whether or not this is enough). Anyway I keep thinking a lot of people would find it easier (as is more convenient) to do 2.5 hours hill walk at the weekend.
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peura, put the edge of your toes on something to take a little bit of weight, although if you can do a couple already there's not much point.
Kramer, I find it hard to believe you couldn't do a pull up! Surely the next goal has to be a 1 armer: start by holding your wrist with the other hand then move it up the arm towards your shoulder until you can get rid of it completely. If you can do this you're better than me, I couldn't get past the elbow.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Megamum, I am sure it is.
The bad news is that over four full seasons skiing I have found that it still takes 3-4 weeks skiing every day until I feel "ski fit" which I guess is a combination of, acclimatisation (which is hard to achieve in the UK without a pressure chamber), leg strength, and stamina. There is a long run in Chamonix which I use to measure myself, when I can ski it hard from top to bottom with no stopping I know I am up to speed.
Why is that bad news, well I cycle most days through the summer often quite a long way!
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so i have a large frame because if i grip my wrist with thumb and index finger, they do not touch. is there any science behind this? i'd say i'm on the overlap of large and medium, but i also have quite small hands... 
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Hmm, still not sure about all of this nonsense, though my BMI has come down from 46 to 34 another 10-12Kg for me say 8" more off the stomach would be ideal for me
Last edited by After all it is free  on Fri 1-08-08 7:39; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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According to this link ....
http://www.adksportsfitness.com/back_issues/january2002/articles/nutrition.html
For Alpine Skiing the minium fat percentage is given as .....
Male 9-11%
Female 20-21%
Cycling
Male 8-9%
Female 13-15%
If anybody is under these levels I suggest you eat a big portion of big chips as soon as possibe, everyone else can breathe a sigh of relief and give themselves a jolly good pat on the back. Well done you people. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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DB, some people are plain lucky.
I can eat all the ice cream and steak as I want and my body BMI is still TOO LEAN!!! I should have weight 10-15 lb more for my height to be "normal". And to think I weight even less from time to time... (when under any kind of stress)
But I'm really NOT so lucky. Some people simply have a different body make-up and that one-size-fit-all "recommendation" is simply, well, too simplistic! It shouldn't be followed so religiously.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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abc, I hate you, on the other hand you are absolutely right
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abc,
I used to be like that but then I got older. For me overall weight (& BMI) isn't the problem, it's getting the muscle mass up and fat percentage down to 10-12% that's the problem. For the things I like doing (ski touring, mountain biking and mountain walking) a higher power to weight ratio makes it a lot easier and I get more enjoyment out of it - that's what drives me on.
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You know it makes sense.
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I diid the fat percentage calculation on freedieting.com. Estimate via waist size was 7.5%. By measuring the fat folds by hand with a ruler rather than calipers, so there wil have been some inaccuracy pushed it up to 9%. Though I'm not sure that its correct, as I don't think I'm that slim.
I'm cycling ~120 miles/week plus some rollerskiing. Probabaly need to add in some running and some core strength training to push up my fitness for my next race (15km classic rollerski in Durham in September), but I don't seem to have the time  .
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Dave Horsley,
I think it's unlikely that many non-professional athletes have sub 10% fat and respectatble muscle mass (i.e. not just skin and bone). To get down to those levels most people need plenty of time to train and a very careful diet. (no-processed foods, complex carbs, low-fat, good quality protein all in the right quantities etc).
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Poster: A snowHead
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DB, The waist size calculation at freedieting puts me on 10% and there is a fair bit more fat around my waist than there was during the ski season.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rjs,
Yes the link I gave was to the "Traditional Ideal Weight calculator" a further link takes you to the calc with waist size. Was trying to give something that was more accurate than BMI taking into account frame size. Of course these are simple formulas giving indications not precise scientific formulas.
For the Traditional Ideal Weight calculator it does say .....
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Here is a standard body weight calculator (take it with a grain of salt). Only suitable for those 4 foot and above (i.e. not children).
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I also come out sub 10% using the one with waist measurement (I've had it recently measured and know I'm not) so guess it must be underestimating fat percentage. As a cross check - if you have sub 10% you probably have a clearly defined sixpack.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Forget about weight, measure your waist to hip ratio, it's a far better predictor of cardiovascular risk.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DB,
I didn't beleive it either as I'm about 75kg and 5ft 10 with a 30inch waist, I'm reasonably fit at the moment but not massively so. However when I was at uni, and spending six weeks every summer on a caving expo which invovled carrying heavy rucksacs of kit up mountains and then taking said kit upto a km underground, I was only ~60kg. Some of that difference must be extra fat I'm carrying or else when I was at uni was completely malnourished.
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Kramer, if you want to bench press your own body weight, i reccomend a japanese prisoner of war camp for a few months..
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CANV CANVINGTON, or the Dysentry diet.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| DB wrote: |
abc,
I used to be like that but then I got older. For me overall weight (& BMI) isn't the problem, it's getting the muscle mass up and fat percentage down to 10-12% that's the problem. For the things I like doing (ski touring, mountain biking and mountain walking) a higher power to weight ratio makes it a lot easier and I get more enjoyment out of it - that's what drives me on. |
I've never been "over-weight" by the normal definition.
My weight really hadn't changed much. But my strength and heart capacity does. Like you, I find I quickly start losing muscle mass and strength as soon as I stop exercising even mildly (1-2/week).
The only time I had "normal (according to the formula) weight" was a period when I was very un-fit! Even walking up stairs got me huffing and puffing. That was when I lived in Hong Kong and I simply could not adjust to the lack of ANY place for exercise (to the un-knowledgable new transplants). Despite living in an old (and lovely) walk up building, climbing 5 flight of stairs everyday, I put on weight and got cold and flu often. I was definitely unfit by ANY definition.
That was motivation enough for me to got back to "some" sort of exercise. At first, it's an uphill battle to re-gain the muscle I no longer use regularly. But after a few years of regular and intense work out, I'm now stronger and healthier than even my 20's! And I found I can even "maintain" that fitness with merely once or twice a week of working out. Only when I need to up the activity level (did a 125 miles bike ride last weekend, will be doing a 30 mile kayak this Sunday) that I specifically "train" with more often and more intense workout routines. (still, I NEVER EVER work out more than 3-4 times a week, outside of high school!) 
To "improve" fitness that's lost (or was never there) takes 3 or more times a week of pretty rigoreous working out. But to just "maintain" it, almost ANY level or frequency of exercise will do. Seems the body got the message those muscles are "needed" and will feed it with needed blood/oxigen/nutrient. Provided, that is, one watches one's diet to NOT put on EXTRA weight.
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FAQ
. Something else has just struck me. Since the "weight" I'm lifting is my body weight then contrary to what I think is normal practice the fitter I get the less weight I'll be lifting 
