 Poster: A snowHead
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Rendl again.
Claims at least 5 a season 
Very unstable North West facing hill. If only people would relaise this. North west facing slopes claim more victims than any other.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Why is that? Is it because the snow doesn't melt and bind with lower layers as it sees little sun? Are North Facing slopes or NE slopes just as bad?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wind
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Peter Ross, the North West slopes are facing towards the UK, and you know that everything wrong with the universe is related to the UK. That's why! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Your talking to an avalanche amateur here!  Is it because there is too much or too little wind. I thought Rendl is sheltered from the wind?
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brian
brian
Guest
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Peter Ross, snow tends to accumulate on lee slopes, ie. those sheltered from the wind.
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brian, thanks I thought as much, so prevailing winds for St Anton are from the south east or is it more complicated than that?
Wear The Fox Hat, that's the scientific explaination I need, no further questions, that makes sense
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http://oesterreich.orf.at/stories/171972/
Avalanches in St Anton, Lech (multiple) and Hinterux. In addition to the two swedes in St Anton a German man was killed in Stierloch. I'm in St Anton at the weekend, it's time for me to buy one of those ABS rucksacks.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Graham (piste to powders) report today .....
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| 14/2/2007 - Light snow overnight and considerable warmer temperatures by morning resulted in a critical avalanche risk today. Although a level 3 grade was given the rise in temps throughout the day gave cause for a level 3+ to 4 to be given. All guides took this into account and low angled terrain was chosen for today's skiing. An avalanche occurred at Rendl (NOT PTP) and due to the rescue effort all guides and professionals from the village are called upon to assist. Unfortunately after 1.5 hours of probing we uncovered 2 young Swedish lads already dead as a result of prolonged burial. No member of their party carried any safety equipment and none wore an avalanche transceiver. Even with all the information and training available I cannot understand why people seem to still choose to ski off piste without the necessary safety equipment or inform themselves of simple avalanche risk evaluation if they choose to ski off piste unguided. A sad day. |
(Previous days were a lot more optimistic)
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DB, did you see that ORF predicts +9C at 2000m for Saturday? I wish they were wrong ...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| kerekip wrote: |
| DB, did you see that ORF predicts +9C at 2000m for Saturday? I wish they were wrong ... |
So do I. this looks better http://www.bergfex.com/stanton-stchristoph/wetter/
I'll be with a guide who knows the area very well. Have my own shovel, probe and transceiver and probably an ABS backpack. I have done some avy training with most of the guys in the group too. Conditions permitting we are planing to do a two day tour staying over in a mountain hut, hopefully staying higher where the temps are colder and the snow is better.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Please dont be fooled by all this saftey equipment.
If your skiing Off-Piste someone will need to see the avalanche & raise the alarm.
I agree beacons,pips may help locate the body but more often or not Avalanches KILL even equipped with tranmitters,shovels.etc. Survivors are few and far between.
ABS sounds like fantasy to me in Major slide.
Im not sure about this has anyone heard of any survival stories?
I personally do not believe in an Avalanche tumble dryer you would have the ability to react and pull the cord.
Also, I cannot believe PTP were taking customers Off-Piste when the severity was posted at Level 3 
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You know it makes sense.
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stanton,
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ABS sounds like fantasy to me in Major slide.
Im not sure about this has anyone heard of any survival stories?
I personally do not believe in an Avalanche tumble dryer you would have the ability to react and pull the cord.
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I heard of a guide in St Anton last year who survived a slide apparently thanks to ABS, a second hand story but from an experienced skier.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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stanton, are there any languages you don't speak ... ? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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B00thy, is "sense" a language?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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stanton, the German Alpine Association DAV are recommending and equiping their groups with ABS, and they have had cases where the ABS has kept a person on the surface. I have seen videos of tests done in Davos with dummies equipped with ABS. They stayed on the surface, whereas those dummies that were not equipped went under. Of course it won't help you in a big slide, but in a big slide the chances are that you are going to get physically crunched. It also wont help in a wet slide. Most survivable avalanches are small and for those cases the ABS has been shown to help. I would definitely recommend using one, as well as a transceiver of course.
You are right in saying that none of this equipment should lead you to believe that you are safe. You aren't, but you are a lot safer than someone who doesn't have any equipment at all!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Mike Lawrie wrote: |
stanton, the German Alpine Association DAV are recommending and equiping their groups with ABS, and they have had cases where the ABS has kept a person on the surface. I have seen videos of tests done in Davos with dummies equipped with ABS. They stayed on the surface, whereas those dummies that were not equipped went under. Of course it won't help you in a big slide, but in a big slide the chances are that you are going to get physically crunched. It also wont help in a wet slide. Most survivable avalanches are small and for those cases the ABS has been shown to help. I would definitely recommend using one, as well as a transceiver of course.
You are right in saying that none of this equipment should lead you to believe that you are safe. You aren't, but you are a lot safer than someone who doesn't have any equipment at all! |
Agreed .
Safer to not go off piste in Level 3 but I guess it keeps the doctors & helicopters working
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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A good result for the Arlberg with Mario Matt winning in Are.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 19-02-07 16:01; edited 1 time in total
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Any updated news on conditions? Off to St Anton two weeks on Saturday 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Charlatanefc and dan100, I'm back in UK for a week but when I left I'd had a couple of good days off-piste and pistes were excellent on Friday but getting soft due to rising temperatures.
I'll start providing updates when I return on Sunday but otherwise we await Stanton ....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If anyone is interested I've posted an ABS topic on the equipment forum ....
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B00thy, cheers bud
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You know it makes sense.
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| DB wrote: |
| We went offpiste (I believe it was level 3) and saw guides from numerous other organizations too, one of the other guides (not PTP) had only two customers neither of whom had a shovel or probe. This guide also decided that him getting to the top of the mountain to stop and have a fag was more important than staying with his clients - both of whom were totally out of breath trying to chase after him. PTP make sure all their clients have full safety gear. As usual Graham weighs up the risks, analyses the weather and selects terrain to give the maximum fun and powder while minimizing the risks. Wasn't so much fresh powder this time but Graham always finds a few good stashes and had some great fun working on steep terrain technique. |
Do you know the Austrian Local who used to run the tabac/sports shop by the Old Railway Staiton ?
For many years he was an renowned respected local off-piste guide , looked what happened to him (with a group)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| DB wrote: |
You make it sound as though PTP are just too risky and are the only ones going offpiste in Level 3 conditions - this isn't the case, we met guides/ski teachers on various routes (inc the ski schools and Zeb Roche). I'm aware of the risks but haven't got the knowledge, qualifications & experience to identify then avoid the risky slopes in St Anton, hence the reason I use Graham. I'm not the only one who trusts him either, various organizations use Graham to give avalanche safety talks and top ski pros have been know to use his safety skills on backcountry photo shoots. |
No its not that I do not trust them or others.
Fundamentally these are busineses & they need to make money. Risk is allways involved.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm not an off piste skier, but as I look to develop, it is something that I will be interested in. I would only want to do it apart from pootling on the side (of a non steep piste) with an expert guide.
I seems to me perhaps naively that off piste skiing will always involve risks including avalance risk. Its how that risk is managed. Tehre are times perhaps when people should not venture off piste at all due to the risk to themselves and to the people who would need to be dug out. Doesn't it depend on where the guides were taking people having assessed the risk of going on steeps, wind exposed slopes near slabs etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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They say even experts get caught even with all their experience but I suppose statistically the likelihood of being in an avalanche increases with every off-piste outing regardless of experience, don't they say the mountain doesn't care if you are experienced or not.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| stanton wrote: |
| Fundamentally these are busineses & they need to make money. Risk is allways involved. |
Risk is always involved on the piste too. Yes PTP is a business but even then it doesn't make sense to take on massive risks as one avalanche could hit the business hard (not to mention the guide's life). The local ski school has managed to survive the effects of avalanche accidents, I'm not sure it would be so easy for PTP. Graham knows the risks and everytime he's called to help out in an avalanche search he gets a constant reminder. He often turns down suggested routes on a safety basis. The avalanche level warnings do not tell you that every slope is risky or every slope safe, a good guide will sort out what's skiable.
We had to cancel the hut tour last weekend (risk and snow quality/quantity) but Graham found us enough slopes to ski. During the warm afternoons we tended to stay away from the powder runs and work on steep terrain technique which will help us in the steep and deep when the conditions are safe enough.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 20-02-07 13:04; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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stanton, a lot of the pages you provide links for look as though they contain information that would be more useful if I could understand more. I am learning German but I'm still a novice. Any chance you could provide a summary of the useful words and phrases when you supply a link. I've just bookmarked a couple of these pages so a glossary would be much appreciated. Thanks in hope
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| B00thy wrote: |
| stanton, a lot of the pages you provide links for look as though they contain information that would be more useful if I could understand more. I am learning German but I'm still a novice. Any chance you could provide a summary of the useful words and phrases when you supply a link. I've just bookmarked a couple of these pages so a glossary would be much appreciated. Thanks in hope |
Sorry. I try to . Actually I m surprised they do not publish the Lawine conds in Englisch
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| DB wrote: |
| Graham knows the risks and everytime he's called to help out in an avalanche search he gets a constant reminder. |
I've help dig a few out (limbs) in the distant past, not a nice very nice sight
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We were taken off piste by the Ski School of St Anton in particular an instructor called Harald Wolf. Can wholeheartedly recommend it and him as he made a point of finding us the best snow conditions from the top of the mountain to the bottom and also made us feel quite safe when attempting more dangerous parts of the trip.
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FAQ
I've seen slopes that Graham has avoided avalanche later in the day.
