 Poster: A snowHead
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What in earth do they need or are going to do with your employer’s details??? If they aren't going to do anything with it, surely against their GDPR rules to collect it?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ster wrote: |
| What in earth do they need or are going to do with your employer’s details??? |
Use it to work out if you are going to try to work illegally.
Employer name is required for the equivalent ESTA system to enter the US.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rjs wrote: |
| ster wrote: |
| What in earth do they need or are going to do with your employer’s details??? |
Use it to work out if you are going to try to work illegally.
Employer name is required for the equivalent ESTA system to enter the US. |
And how would they work that out from an employer’s details from another country?
The need or otherwise for it on the US ESTA is really an irrelevance.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| ster wrote: |
| rjs wrote: |
| ster wrote: |
| What in earth do they need or are going to do with your employer’s details??? |
Use it to work out if you are going to try to work illegally.
Employer name is required for the equivalent ESTA system to enter the US. |
And how would they work that out from an employer’s details from another country? |
It would be a judgement call of the immigration officer.
| Quote: |
| The need or otherwise for it on the US ESTA is really an irrelevance. |
Not really, both systems are doing the same kind of thing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@rjs, you mean how the tick box on old self declaration US entry forms asking if you were ever a member of the Nazi Party used to weed out all those undesirables?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@ster, I don't think it matters what the old US system did.
I have never entered the US having truthfully filled in an old visa waiver form, always ticked the "no" box to the "Are you a gunrunner?" question.
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@rjs, so self declared uncheckable employer’s details are pointless, yes?
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@ster, If an immigration officer doesn't like the answer you have given on employment then they will be able to refuse you entry to the Schengen area.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As everywhere, so whats new?
Whats is new here is demanding pointless self declared and uncheckable information , like the question “Are you or have you ever been a member of the Nazi Party” was.
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It's not always uncheckable though is it. What if you work for a company like Airbus and you're going on "holiday" to Toulouse for a couple of weeks....
The place I work at has offices in Europe and we have people who regularly work from other locations for a bit (unofficially....but my boss spent a month in Spain with her parents over the summer, working whilst the kids were with the grandparents).
Depends how much they want to crack down on that sort of thing. She happened to be working on a UK client but she could feasibly have been working on a Spanish one, sat in Spain doing a job that a Spanish person could be doing.....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| rjs wrote: |
| @ster, If an immigration officer doesn't like the answer you have given on employment then they will be able to refuse you entry to the Schengen area. |
But surely an immigration officer isn’t going to check the answers on an application you might have made two years ago? They/EES are just interested if you’ve got one (though taking @origen’s example of a Zimbabwean friend, maybe they would depending on where you arrive from!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| paulhinch wrote: |
It's not always uncheckable though is it. What if you work for a company like Airbus and you're going on "holiday" to Toulouse for a couple of weeks....
The place I work at has offices in Europe and we have people who regularly work from other locations for a bit (unofficially....but my boss spent a month in Spain with her parents over the summer, working whilst the kids were with the grandparents).
Depends how much they want to crack down on that sort of thing. She happened to be working on a UK client but she could feasibly have been working on a Spanish one, sat in Spain doing a job that a Spanish person could be doing..... |
They are going to check it how exactly?
And if those are the circumstances so what, what will it prove, unless they checked somehow that you were visiting a city that your employer had an office and you coughed you were going there to work. How would it stop anyone doing what you suggest?
If its to check you aren’t going to work in EU on a tourist visa , how does knowing you work for Acme cement works in Lagos matter a damn. Are they going to check if Acme exists, your are employed but them, demand to see a contract of employment, see payslips before you’re allowed in at the border? I don’t think so.
Jeez, how long has it taken to get the basic system working let alone checking what you input???
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Sometimes they do check if Acme exists and that you work for them as part of a visa application or, if no visa is required, when seeking permission to enter at the border. The guidance about supporting evidence when applying for a UK visa explains that it is a good idea to have things that prove what you do (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/visitor-visa-guide-to-supporting-documents/guide-to-supporting-documents-visiting-the-uk#demonstrating-personal-circumstances)
The UK immigration rules allow for refusal of people who are found to have lied or who have used false documents in application to come to the UK. I am pretty sure that the Schengen Code allows this as well.
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You know it makes sense.
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| ster wrote: |
| paulhinch wrote: |
It's not always uncheckable though is it. What if you work for a company like Airbus and you're going on "holiday" to Toulouse for a couple of weeks....
The place I work at has offices in Europe and we have people who regularly work from other locations for a bit (unofficially....but my boss spent a month in Spain with her parents over the summer, working whilst the kids were with the grandparents).
Depends how much they want to crack down on that sort of thing. She happened to be working on a UK client but she could feasibly have been working on a Spanish one, sat in Spain doing a job that a Spanish person could be doing..... |
They are going to check it how exactly?
And if those are the circumstances so what, what will it prove, unless they checked somehow that you were visiting a city that your employer had an office and you coughed you were going there to work. How would it stop anyone doing what you suggest?
If its to check you aren’t going to work in EU on a tourist visa , how does knowing you work for Acme cement works in Lagos matter a damn. Are they going to check if Acme exists, your are employed but them, demand to see a contract of employment, see payslips before you’re allowed in at the border? I don’t think so.
Jeez, how long has it taken to get the basic system working let alone checking what you input??? |
The reality is that they don't have to prove anything. They only need a suspicion. So, if you're a regular in and out visitor that looks like you need a visa and you've not got one they don't need to prove it. You need to prove you're not there working.
So, in the case I mentioned, turning up with an asset tagged laptop in a place where we have an office would throw up enough suspicion that you're working there illegally.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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It's a disaster.
EU has had years to get it right.
And still can't launch on time.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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No surprise they're struggling to get it launched. Huge, cross continent tech project coupled with the logistical requirement to have it on every external EU (not just Schengen) border point.
All across Europe, there's always been different flavours of how permeable the border is meaning it's not like just bringing it in for a single country or single border crossing. Things like how you implement it on a border of coach crossings and limited space like Dover vs how it would work in somewhere like the Kos - Bodrum sea crossing vs putting it into Frankfurt airport vs somewhere like Chambery vs Alicante airport.....all very different implementations of border control that need to become consistent.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@paulhinch, Do not forget Mayotte.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yep. All kinds of quirks.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well here’s another “on the ground” update from Geneva arrivals:
Each booth now has a facial scanner thing and a fingerprint scanner (same as the outbound booths). Yesterday they were taking prints from some passengers at the booth (whether it was random testing or something else I don’t know, as I wasn’t). They were still stamping everyone’s passports.
So I wonder if the McD’s type scanners are for first registration and the process (initially at least) will be everyone (once registered) still goes to a booth and is scanned (either face or fingerprints), has passport checked but not stamped.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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You register at one set of booths when you cross the border for the first time since EES comes in and then when going to an officer (on first or subsequent trips) they can check your fingerprints or photo. The eGates will check your photo.
I think that you need to register every three years.
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Interesting to read this as UAE based Brit.
We have had biometric entry with fingerprint for at least 15 years (this was finnickity and didn't always work). Facial and retinal scanning for 10 years and as of my last few entries over the last 6 months, no requirement to scan your passport at all in the process. Some of the land borders still don't have this and stamp and check in the old way. There is no hassle moving from one system to the other.
I've arrived into Geneva on the Emirates flight enough times to make sure that we have paid for the front seats in economy and regardless of which child needs a wee, they are holding it till we are through passport control.
I'm also curious what treaty we need to sign to get the right to go through the scanners as they currently are (like the Aussies, Kiwis and Yanks). Not that it would ease my trips to Geneva as they are almost exclusively with my kids...
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| Hurdy wrote: |
You register at one set of booths when you cross the border for the first time since EES comes in and then when going to an officer (on first or subsequent trips) they can check your fingerprints or photo. The eGates will check your photo.
I think that you need to register every three years. |
I have a feeling the e-gates won’t be available for non-Schengen people, at least initially at Geneva (hence they’ve built the new facial scanners by every booth, both inbound and outbound). My assumption is the same as yours - the big McDonald’s style machine for first registration, then a face or print scan by the booth. What’s not clear is where the queue will split for those who need to register for the first time and those who don’t. We’re out in late November and will hopefully get registered before the season gets busy (though arriving after an Emirates or Qatar flight seems to be more chaotic/busy than a couple of Easyjets from Luton or Gatwick), but there my not be much benefit if you have to stand behind everyone registering for the first time (though I reckon they have about 20 of the big machines ready to go).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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There still doesn’t seem to be a definitive yes or no, as to the 10th November ‘go live’ date, unless I’ve missed it?
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@andy from embsay, just be glad that Emirates don't fly the 380 into Geneva currently!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Montan, I think it’s more that there hasn’t been a definitive delay to 10/11 (which was quoted by the EU I think). There’s been reports in the press that 10/11 may be delayed but they apparently only gave themselves 17/10 as contingency!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@afterski, the big jets that do are obviously bad enough!
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You know it makes sense.
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This is probably irrelevant but I’ll share anyway…
On a recent trip to Cyprus, I used a station which scanned the passport (like an e-gate) but which also took photo of my gorgeous visage and then printed a (very grainy, low-res) black & white slip showing my face and some passport details.
The slip was then handed to the nice border control man who stared intently at me while he compared me to the image on the slip which he then put the slip to one side, stamped my passport and bid me farewell.
I’ve no idea what they gain from the procedure, TBH but it might be a sort of half-way house towards EES
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@geoffers, I believe that EES and ETIAS are two separate things. EES is the system to record who enters at the border and ETIAS is the electronic visa system. I think ETIAS is due to be introduced next year.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
On a recent trip to Cyprus, I used a station which scanned the passport (like an e-gate) but which also took photo of my gorgeous visage and then printed a (very grainy, low-res) black & white slip showing my face and some passport details.
The slip was then handed to the nice border control man who stared intently at me while he compared me to the image on the slip which he then put the slip to one side, stamped my passport and bid me farewell.
I’ve no idea what they gain from the procedure, TBH but it might be a sort of half-way house towards EES
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Cyprus is not in Shengen so I doubt it has any relevance to EES
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The Guardian article also suggests they might do a half-way solution of uploading passport/border crossing details to the central database but without biometrics. That would at least do away with stamping as they’d have a central record of your time in Schengen.
An article in the Times suggests an announcement will be made today.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Lots of hubris here - https://www.eulisa.europa.eu/
With nothing about EES on home page - which is rather worrying. But really lovely that "eu-LISA aims to reduce its carbon footprint to become carbon neutral by 2030."
It has all been planned back to front - ETIAS should be first, then the app and when those have been shown to be reliable, then EES. Although it only takes a small mobile OS update to render apps inoperable.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
On a recent trip to Cyprus, I used a station which scanned the passport (like an e-gate) but which also took photo of my gorgeous visage and then printed a (very grainy, low-res) black & white slip showing my face and some passport details.
The slip was then handed to the nice border control man who stared intently at me while he compared me to the image on the slip which he then put the slip to one side, stamped my passport and bid me farewell.
I’ve no idea what they gain from the procedure, TBH but it might be a sort of half-way house towards EES
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Cyprus is not in Shengen so I doubt it has any relevance to EES |
Well, I did say, “this is probably irrelevant” so at least I got that right 
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@radar, I read that as an indefinite delay, maybe not parts of the system but the whole thing seems a long way off
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Appears indefinite cancellation of an effective date instead a gradual rollout later in 25. The winter is safe from red tape.
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Think they’ll reimburse me the cost of the 12th November flight I bought, to visit a friend in Spain, with the predominate aim of getting this done AHEAD of the ski season?
For the avoidance of doubt, I’m joking.
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